Chosing market: Memphis vs OKC vs Indianapolis.

[Svetlana Helms]

I am an out of state investor. I need to buy 6-8 doors in 2020 for long term hold. Which market do you think gives the best bang for the buck. I am having trouble focusing on one. Looking for 10+% COC return. Thanks!

[Andrew Park]

I believe that Memphis is a great market to get into. the low barrier of entry makes it easy to get in and find the right property for the long haul. Plenty of rejuvenation all over the city, and surrounding cities that also are great.

[Koleton Daley]

@Andrew Park couldn’t agree more. We will say that there is some very dishonest groups in Memphis that we’ve unfortunately had experience with. We used Crestcore, from our experience, and in our opinion, they’re seriously one of the most disorganized, dishonest, and unethical operations in this area. They post really heavily on the forums and we don’t get the sense that they always have everyone’s best interest in mind but again, that’s just our opinion.

Here’s an example:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/50/topics/771372-recommendations-for-a-team-in-memphis-tn

In our opinion, It appears to us, they’ll try and sell whatever comes along to who ever is willing to buy it but we thankfully have never purchased anything from this group, just used them for management and it was a nightmare.

Unfortunately Crestcore doesn’t get our recommendation in the Memphis market but that’s simply our opinion and it would be up to you to form your own opinion of them.

[Cassi Justiz]

Hi @Svetlana Helms, 

I think any three of these markets would be solid. I invest in OKC, so obviously I think it's a great market. I would look at the price point you are interested and see what kind of properties each of these markets can provide. 

In OKC, our C class properties are in the sweet spot between good areas and solid returns. The average C class property would look like a 65-80k property (ARV) that rents for up to $850/month.

You can still get decent returns in the higher end properties. But 10% CoC will be tough if you are looking at anything over C+ properties.

I would be happy to answer any questions you have about the OKC market! 

[Dean Harris]

@Andrew Park

Clearly, @Koleton Daley doesn't understand how a real estate agent works. He has turned his personal vendetta on our property management division over to me personally. Even though, I have never worked with him, advised him or even spoken to him on the phone. I, like every other real estate agent on the planet will take some listings in areas that aren't the most desirable to help investors out of bad situations. When I list a property, I represent the seller as I am sure you know. Mr. Daley pops off at the mouth at every chance he can get since he had a bad experience with our property management division at CrestCore. Which, for the record, they tried to make right for him. What Mr. Daley fails to understand is that I am not in property management. I'm over our brokerage which is a completely separate division and I will often list homes in the northwest corner of 38127 known as Northaven to help investors get out of bad situations where they have been taken advantage of. Sometimes, investors like to take chances in this area because the homes will look great on a spreadsheet. And, sometimes, they can make it work. Those are the investors that will come and buy those homes. What Mr. Daley fails to understand is that I don't represent buyers in this area unless they force me to help them. I apologize to you personally for this behavior on this site. I have never worked with him at all and yet he continues this onslaught of slander towards me and my personal business because he had a bad experience with CrestCore property management. As long as Mr. Daley continues to try and slander me and my integrity, I will continue to defend my self and how I run my brokerage business at every post he makes about me personally

@Svetlana Helms You should be able to find those types of returns on Memphis. Especially if you can find some 6-8 unit properties in the Midtown, Cooper Young, Crosstown areas. We don't have a ton of 6-8 unit options in Memphis in desirable areas but they are out there if you do some digging. I have also heard that Kansas City and Birmingham Alabama have some options that are similar to your criteria as well. Best of luck to you and I'm happy to answer any of your questions you may have based off of my own personal investing in Memphis. 

[Danielle Wolter]

@Svetlana Helms I currently invest in Memphis and think it is a great market. The barriers to entry are quite low, however, you should note that it has not necessarily been a high appreciation area. I love it for the cash flow and ability to pick up properties in great neighborhoods for reasonable prices and a good price/rent ratio. As a side note, I have been working with @Dean Harris and his brokerage business and have had outstanding results. The team has been incredibly helpful and professional and my experience has been wonderful. 

[Dean Harris]

@Danielle Wolter Thank you very much! I really appreciate that and I look forward to continuing to work with you and help you build your business/portfolio

[Koleton Daley]

@Dean Harris those are some big accusations to be making.. Everything that we've posted is of our own opinion, and is factually based off of the experience that we've had. We are entitled to share our opinion about the organization and if people want factual evidence then we can provide it pending our own attorneys will allow it. That being said it is important to talk about our experience. Yourself, nor Crestcore can take that opinion/experience away from us.

If you'd like to start a record that we can go on topic about and involve details then we can, but just know that it was started from your side. (We would strongly advise you to consult with your council about what you just said, we were trying to show respect by leaving exact details out of our opinions and recommendations)

If you don't want people to get the divisional divide between yourself and Crestcore confused then we would simply suggest you get a new email domain so that it doesn't all look like the same company on paper. Please make sure that you are only posting truthful things that you can backup with factual evidence. We have no problem with you personally whatsoever so please don't be confused. Our problem is with the Crestcore organization. We might not agree with your advice that your giving but that still doesn't make you a terrible person so please stop trying to paint that picture. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in this great country of ours. You have a great day and we wish you the best.

[Dean Harris]

@Koleton Daley I don’t need an attorney. I have done nothing wrong and I have never worked with you. Apparently 15 months ago I responded to you on BP. Please leave my name out of your mouth. I have asked you this several times. This is harassment from you at this point.

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Koleton Daley  @Dean Harris  dont know either of you guys.. but i have to agree Koleton its seems when you respond to a memphis thread you air your personal issues with this company..  Just sayin that does get old on BP.. and then folks just dont take you seriously.

Keep in mind that management and selling these low end or low valued assets comes with risk.. these are not set it and forget investments.. at least when your trying for super high 10% and above yeilds.

As for the original question.. I think one has to be careful of double tax in Memphis.. IE city and county and maybe look out of the city limits..  Indy has really favorable economic profiles. i find.  OKC to me has to much wind damage and such but just my thoughts on the matter

[Dean Harris]

@Jay Hinrichs You are correct, Those double tax’s can be tough. Although, combined they are still lower then some other similar investment areas. There are a hand full of locations that only have a county tax. Those homes definitely pencil out a little better than the others.

[Bob Daniels]

If your an out of state investor, I would say that the company you choose to go with is more important than the city in which they operate in.  

Each of the cities are good for cashflow, but using the wrong company can cause you to lose boatloads of money even in the best of markets.

[Koleton Daley]

@Jay Hinrichs thank you for your opinion. It’s of great value 🙂

In our opinion, people need to know who they’re working with if they decide to work with these groups in Memphis. With us voicing our experience and opinion we feel that we’re helping people to make easier decisions on who and what kind of property manager they’re working with. It’s still ultimately up to them to make that decision. We feel that people on BP are searching for Information like that and its invaluable to the individual looking to own property in Memphis.

We didn’t have a bad experience with owning property.. With our experience it was the dishonest property manager that was over billing, making repairs without authorization, billing for repairs that they never completed, and causing additional damages to our homes along with some other dishonest things. That dishonest property manager for us was Crestcore. Once we got rid of them, everything has been amazing for us in all honesty. One of our tenants even thanked us. We would encourage anyone and everyone to seriously consider Memphis as a market to own property in!

From our own experience, we will still say that we wouldn’t recommend Crestcore for any kind of service in owning property in Memphis but that is solely our opinion.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Koleton Daley:

@Jay Hinrichs thank you for your opinion. It’s of great value 🙂

In our opinion, people need to know who they’re working with if they decide to work with these groups in Memphis. With us voicing our experience and opinion we feel that we’re helping people to make easier decisions on who and what kind of property manager they’re working with. It’s still ultimately up to them to make that decision. We feel that people on BP are searching for Information like that and its invaluable to the individual looking to own property in Memphis.

We didn’t have a bad experience with owning property.. With our experience it was the dishonest property manager that was over billing, making repairs without authorization, billing for repairs that they never completed, and causing additional damages to our homes along with some other dishonest things. That dishonest property manager for us was Crestcore. Once we got rid of them, everything has been amazing for us in all honesty. One of our tenants even thanked us. We would encourage anyone and everyone to seriously consider Memphis as a market to own property in!

From our own experience, we will still say that we wouldn’t recommend Crestcore for any kind of service in owning property in Memphis but that is solely our opinion.

Well then if this is all true there are places to file these grievances that are more appropriate than just slinging mud on BP.  For PM nationwide these are very common complaints no mystery there.  and no one buys low end rentals and it all goes perfect that i dont believe for a second. 

[Derrick Craig]

@Jay Hinrichs

THANK YOU!!!! 

[Alyssa Dyer]

I 100% agree with @Bob Daniels although I'm biased to OKC you can make money in any of these markets, but the team you work with will make or break you! Just make sure to vet your team, look at reviews.. contact people from reviews! Look at deals they've done and look at the volume of deals they do. Someone that doesn't need you to pay their bills might provide drastically different service from someone that's running a successful business!