Unknown Truths About Financing Commercial & Multi-Family RE

Unknown Truths About Financing Commercial & Multi-Family RE

Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 104 votes

Hello All,

I am new to the Bigger Pockets forums but have been listening to the podcasts for several months now. Although I certainly get a TON of value from the platform already, I found that more sophisticated, nuanced advice for financing commercial and multi-family real estate was sorely needed. 

I think one of the common misconceptions of commercial/multi-family is that the loan underwriting process is similar to residential. This could not be further from the truth. Residential (1-4 units) is almost completely dependent on the financial strength of the individual borrower(s) (income, credit score, debt/equity etc). In contrast, commercial and multi-family (5+ units) underwriting is MUCH more dependent on the metrics of the property itself. In order to qualify for commercial/multi-family conventional financing, there are two basic parameters that need to be met. 

1. The Net Operating Income (NOI) of the given property must be in excess of 1.15x-1.25x the loan payment

2. The total loan to value must not exceed 75-80%

As long as these two metrics are met, a borrower would be well on his/her way to approval. Of course, if the individual borrower has a checkered history (bankrupticies, foreclusures, felonies, etc.) there might be an issue. With that said, I have been able to secure pretty good terms for borrowers with a less than stellar financial profile simply because the property itself was such a gem.

What are the various types of capital sources for Commercial/Multi-Family real estate financing? I think most people know about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. These Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSE's) dominate the multi-family lending arena. Most people probably also know about the big banks such as Chase and Wells Fargo which are very active in the apartment and commercial sphere. In addition, some may know about Commercial Mortgage Backed Security (CMBS) lenders. These (along with residential mortgage backed securities) were the "bad loans" that were being made in the early to mid 2000's. I would recommend watching "The Big Short" if you are interested in learning more about these. CMBS loans are still around today and provide an important source of liquidity for commercial/multi-family financing.

With all that said, I am here to try to add value to The Bigger Pockets Community. I think I can do that by introducing a couple capital sources that are a little bit more under the radar...

The first is Federal Credit Unions. I have closed many loans with Federal Credit Unions over the past several years. The great thing about CU's as a source is that they can lend to a borrower no matter his/her location on properties across the nation. There is generally no geographic limitation. Also, by law, these loans have ZERO pre-payment penalties. I often place these loans for my borrowers that plan on adding a lot of value to the commercial or apartment property and want to make sure they do not incur a penalty once they sell or do a cash out re-finance. Finally, Federal Credit Unions also generally have low origination costs and 30 year amortizations which helps maximize cash-flow.

The second source I would like to discuss is Life Insurance Companies. Life Co's might be the most misunderstood source in the Commercial lending landscape. Even though Life Co's are routinely responsible for 10%-20% of all originated commercial loans, their role is often understated. I understand why... "Why would Life Insurance Companies be such active participants in Commercial and Multi-Family Lending?" The answer is actually pretty simple. Life Insurance Companies have long-term liabilities (policies) and they need to invest their monthly premiums in order to ensure that they are getting the return necessary to pay out on those policies. Because these policies are long-term liabilities, life companies want to match them with long-term assets. They do this by providing mortgages that otherwise don't really exist with the other previously mentioned capital sources. 10 years fixed... 15 years... 20 years... even 30 years! In fact, I just closed a $5,000,000 30 year fixed rate senior housing loan on a property in San Diego.

What else makes Life Companies unique besides the benefit of providing a long-term fixed rate and eliminating interest rate risk? 

  • They provide loans that are non-recourse (no personal guarantee). This helps borrowers insulate the risk of that loan to just the property itself.
  • They carry extremely low interest rates. Generally no other capital source can match the rates life companies can offer.
  • No global underwriting. They generally only care about the asset and will not require an invasive individual underwriting process.
  • Certainty of execution. Life companies rarely "re-trade" on loans. When they issue an application, it is pretty much a done deal.

Hopefully this post has added some value for the BP Community. Keep Killing it! I would love to talk with everyone further. This is such a great platform for sharing ideas and building wealth. also BRANDON AND JOSH this is my first official request to earn the privilege of joining the podcast!

David Hamilton

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Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y

Hi all,

I have 6 Multifamily loans with a local lender in the Cleveland area.  The loans are 5 years and an option for another 5 years.  My highest interest rate is 4.6% and my lowest is 4.2%.  These are all 20 yr amortization loans.  Local banks are great sources for commercial loans.  My loans are based on the NHLB rate and fixed for the five years.  I have a little over 2 million in debt on these six apartment complexes and about 1.2 million equity on them.    Plus, I have 7 single family paid off in full in Euclid, Ohio, valued at approximately $280,000-$300,000 and $500,000 debt on 1.5 million in property in San Diego and 1 million in equity on them. Those are with two single family personal residences and one rental property here in San Diego. 

So, in totality I have approximately 5 million in approximate value of all RE and approximately 2.5 million in debt and approximately 2.5 million in equity.  Plus, we cash flow approximately $120,000 presently and I expect to increase the cash flow dramatically, due to us being in the process of repositioning 3 of the apartment complexes and selling our one rental property in San Diego left and 1031 exchanging for a yield play that will cash flow a minimum of $20,000, with a projected cash flow of $27,000 cash flow first year.  The single family we are trading it in for here in San Diego was only cash flowing $5,000 a year.

That loan will be with my same local bank in Cleveland.  1031 exchanges are a brilliant way to defer your taxes too!!  I have sold 10 single family that have appreciated wildly her in San Diego, since first purchasing in 2011 and 2012, 1031 exchanging them for soon to be 7 apartment complexes and 109 front doors.  I had to get all that dead equity out at these low interest rates to get more cash flow and more doors on my way to my goal of 1000 front doors or more and $750,000-$1,000,000 in cash flow too!!  10X rule baby!! Grant Cardone style!!

Swanny

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  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    This is an incredibly informative post. I'm working on getting into commercial and I will refer back to this post! Thanks for adding value on BP on the commercial side!
  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 104 votes
    9y

    Thank you Lee!

  • SoCal · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    David,

    Great post. Thank you for your insight on the two commercial loans sources. Both sound highly desirable for CRE investors.

    Questions:

    Are they amortized with principle or interest only? Any point required?

    Are CU loans non-recourse as well?

    What other pros and cons investors need to know when considering the two CRE loan sources?

    Thanks in advance!

  • Investor · Evans, GA · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 103 votes
    9y

    @David Hamilton...is there a specific loan size cutoff above which life insurance companies are more likely to underwrite? My first commercial office property was recently purchased with a seller financed note with a 10-year term (20 yr am), but the life insurance company option is also very appealing.  Also, do you have some suggested companies to recommend for consideration? Thanks!

  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 104 votes
    9y

    Hi Jade,

    Life companies generally like to do loans $1,000,000 and above. They also generally cannot be accessed directly by a borrower such as yourself. Insurance companies lend through a correspondent network of companies.  Some of the big life insurance companies I work with include John Hancock, Voya (formerly ING), The Standard, Protective Life and Ameritas.

  • Podcaster & Multi-Family Apartment Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 273 posts · 138 votes
    9y
    Great post! Very well said.
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    My clients use all the various debt sources mentioned  at different times. I am the commercial broker transacting so I do not do loan I have the capital markets guys do that part of it.

    Every loan is different. Life Co's are more picky on the asset they will do a loan on and generally want low leverage such as 65% ltv or lower.

    Credit unions can be great without the prepay penalty and can go higher like 75% ltv on retail. Multifamily sometimes lenders will push higher such as 80%.

    Generally you see 25% down is full recourse. 30% down is partial recourse ( though we have one now at 30% down full non-recourse), and 35% down typically full non-recourse. These are generally for retail strip centers. If you go 35% down on triple net single tenant the loans are underwritten differently so still might have some recourse as cap rates tend to be lower and spread is smaller versus the interest rate.    

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 722 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @David Hamilton.  Can you talk a bit about net worth requirements, experience requirements, and "bad boy" carve outs on some of the sources you mentioned, particularly the Life Co's and the FCUs?

    My experience is mostly in CMBS, which is great when you're starting because they will deal with you without experience requirements, but the terms are pretty onerous.

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 722 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Joel Owens Same question I asked David.  What are the net worth requirements, experience requirements, and bad-boy carveout requirements for the debt sources you mentioned?  Very relevant to my life, so some clarity would be appreciated.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    CMBS used to be great about 4 years ago as they were the only ones doing 10 year fixed as the banks and credit unions most were doing 3 to 5 deals. Now they do 10 year fixed so many investors go that direction instead of the high cost of CMBS. CMBS takes longer usually then other sources.

    On my client deals it is usually net worth equal or close to purchase price. Liquid 10% of loan balance after down payment.

    It varies just as much with the property as the buyer on what a lender will do. They have set guidelines but I have seen exceptions if the borrower is very strong or the property is highly desirable and the lender feels great about the real estate for the loan.  

  • Marie BifolckPro Member
    Acton, MA · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Fantastic post; Life Cos an avenue I never knew of, Thanks.
  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 104 votes
    9y

    Jonathan,

    I'd echo some of Joel's comments. Net Worth generally needs to be equal to or greater than the loan amount. Also agree on liquidity -- 10% or greater. Bad Boy Carveouts are much more straight forward for life companies than CMBS. I have seen CMBS Carveout language so onerous that it pretty much is a recourse loan for all intents and purposes. Life Company Carveouts basically say that if you file for bankruptcy, commit fraud or misrepresentation, or have an environmental issue, the recourse is triggered. Carveouts aren't really relevant for my Federal Credit Unions since these are generally full recourse loans.

    I tend to steer clear of CMBS in general unless full term interest only is the number one priority for the borrower.

    CMBS was an incredible source in the early to mid 2000's before the collapse. Again, if you watch "The Big Short" or other movies that talk about mortgage backed securities, there were A LOT of problems back then. Although there is certainly plenty of blame to go around, if I had to place it on one of the players it would be the rating agencies (S&P, Moody's & Fitch) because they were rating these junk bonds as AAA investment grade. I won't dive too deep into this but essentially there were huge conflicts of interests and even border line corruption in the marketplace back then. With that said, all of these problems actually resulted in fantastic loan terms at the time for commercial real estate borrowers -- very high LTV, very low spread/ margin, interest only for term, pro forma underwriting, etc.

    To give you some perspective on how we are still feeling the pain of the "go-go" CMBS era 10+ years ago... I'd like to share the below anecdote.

    I am currently working on a strip retail center CMBS re-finance deal in Murrieta, California (just north of San Diego). It was (and still is) an $8,000,000 loan originated in 2007, interest only for the 10 year term, and 80% loan to value on PRO FORMA rents. These pro forma rents never ended up materializing. This loan, and many others that are coming due this year, cannot even be re-financed. Many borrowers are having to make some tough decisions right now. They are either selling, handing back the keys to the lender, option for a bridge loan with mezzanine financing, or putting cash in just to re-finance the loan.

    CMBS is certainly back but many of the lesser (non-bank) players are starting to drop like flies. Due to Dodd-Frank's "risk retention" regulations, it is harder for these lenders to be profitable. Also, borrowers have a really bad taste in their mouths about their prior CMBS experiences (high legal fees, no interest rate lock, defeasance pre-payment penalty, cash flow sweeps, lock boxes, onerous Tenant Improvement/Leasing Commission/CapEx Reserve Requirements)... I can go on and on! I expect the herd of CMBS originators to thin out to just 10 or so in the next couple years. Unless the other capital sources tighten up their lending (banks, credit unions & life co's) I don't foresee CMBS' influence returning to its former glory anytime soon.

    Hope this was helpful!

    David Hamilton

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    You left out local banks. Almost 75% of the properties I buy are with local banks. Not the best terms in the world but easy/fast to work with (which is a huge value to me who likes to close fast with little fuss)
  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 104 votes
    9y

    You are right Cody. They are certainly an important source as well.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Hi all,

    I have 6 Multifamily loans with a local lender in the Cleveland area.  The loans are 5 years and an option for another 5 years.  My highest interest rate is 4.6% and my lowest is 4.2%.  These are all 20 yr amortization loans.  Local banks are great sources for commercial loans.  My loans are based on the NHLB rate and fixed for the five years.  I have a little over 2 million in debt on these six apartment complexes and about 1.2 million equity on them.    Plus, I have 7 single family paid off in full in Euclid, Ohio, valued at approximately $280,000-$300,000 and $500,000 debt on 1.5 million in property in San Diego and 1 million in equity on them. Those are with two single family personal residences and one rental property here in San Diego. 

    So, in totality I have approximately 5 million in approximate value of all RE and approximately 2.5 million in debt and approximately 2.5 million in equity.  Plus, we cash flow approximately $120,000 presently and I expect to increase the cash flow dramatically, due to us being in the process of repositioning 3 of the apartment complexes and selling our one rental property in San Diego left and 1031 exchanging for a yield play that will cash flow a minimum of $20,000, with a projected cash flow of $27,000 cash flow first year.  The single family we are trading it in for here in San Diego was only cash flowing $5,000 a year.

    That loan will be with my same local bank in Cleveland.  1031 exchanges are a brilliant way to defer your taxes too!!  I have sold 10 single family that have appreciated wildly her in San Diego, since first purchasing in 2011 and 2012, 1031 exchanging them for soon to be 7 apartment complexes and 109 front doors.  I had to get all that dead equity out at these low interest rates to get more cash flow and more doors on my way to my goal of 1000 front doors or more and $750,000-$1,000,000 in cash flow too!!  10X rule baby!! Grant Cardone style!!

    Swanny

  • Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    David - thanks for the post. Slightly off topic but do you have experience in the cash out refis for commercial properties ? In your experience Is the lender's determination of property value mostly driven by NOI/Income approach ? Certainly the physical characteristics and condition of the building factor in as well....

  • Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    9y

    20 years ago we did our 1st property, a 7U commercial, with a small local bank on a 75% LTV 15 year straight mortgage. We certainly didn't have the price in personal net worth, we had not much more than the down payment. Bad news was it was 9.75%!! We paid that down very quickly.

  • Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
    9y

    I'm a little surprise to see that no one mentioned the wonderful benefits of federal, state and sometimes local tax credits offered on commercial property investments. it certainly falls in the category of the title...

    Kudos,

    Mary

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Cody L.:

    You left out local banks. Almost 75% of the properties I buy are with local banks. Not the best terms in the world but easy/fast to work with (which is a huge value to me who likes to close fast with little fuss)

     I'm going to have to look into this one day when I don't have W2 income.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    I agree I hardly look at CMBS anymore.

    A recent loan from a bank for about 3.5 million.

    10 year fixed term with full non-recourse and a 30 year amortization with a bank around 4.6 fixed with 30% down.

    5/4/3/2/1 on pre-pay penalty

    If anyone does a 5/5 it better to get a ceiling ahead of time for years 6 to 10. One loan for another client was a 5/5. First 5 years with 25 year amortization fixed at 4.7 and years 6 to 10 the rate could not go higher than 6 flat. So when you know the highest is 6 you can stress test for years 6 to 10 and predict out cash flows somewhat.

    If you leave it open in year 6 to market that can be dangerous to do.

    I like floating rates or interest only rates more when a property is a value add and being turned around. It's can also be good if doing new construction to negotiate the building loan to convert to a regular loan and have rate and term locked down once stabilized.

  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 104 votes
    9y

    Brandon,

    Yes I certainly have experience in cash-out re-fi's.

    I think you would be surprised to know just how little commercial lenders care about the "physical characteristics and condition of the building." Some lenders have a "no metal building" policy. Lenders will also generally require severe deferred maintenance or any environmental issues to be addressed. Short answer... LTV and DCR are king!

    Thanks all,

    DH

  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    9y

    Thanks David.  Can you provide examples of federal credit unions who lend outside of their market...or, are you saying they lend in market to outside investors?  I am not aware of federal credit unions in my market (SC) who have 30 or even 25 year amortization.

    @Jonathan Twombly BankFinancial out of IL is an apartment lender in the southeast and they try to compete with the GSEs (but have added flexibility around something like net worth or other requirements).  Let me know if you are interested in an introduction.

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2017 · 41 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    @David Hamilton - this is great info.  i was always curious on how a commercial property is valued by banks.  Lets say a brick (gutted) 9 unit building is being sold for 85k, rehab is aproxx 600k, rents can bring 1,100 - 1,500 a unit.  

    how would a commercial lender determine the value of the property.  i know it is not by comps but by income.  can you help me understand / break it down a bit more?

    Thanks.

  • Rental Property Investor · Ramapo, NY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 108 votes
    9y

    @Gil Pang I don't think you can get a regular commercial loan for that, it will have to be a short-term construction loan. @David Hamilton to what extent does construction/developing experience play a role in whether a bank will lend to a developer?

  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 104 votes
    9y

    Hi Mike,

    To clarify, I have closed loans with federal credit unions headquartered across the country -- California, Minnesota, Tennessee, and North Carolina to name a few. These federal credit unions will fund loans regardless of the location of BOTH property and borrower.

    Hope that helps,

    David Hamilton

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