Getting a Commercial Loan from a Bank is Not As Easy as You'd Think!

Getting a Commercial Loan from a Bank is Not As Easy as You'd Think!

Landlord · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 129 posts · 49 votes

In fact, it's damn hard. I'm in the middle of trying to refinance my own mixed retail and residential property with US Bank. Actually, I'm done with US Bank. Despite a LTV of 40%, despite top tier credit, despite a 160% debt coverage ratio (the net income collected will exceed the monthly mortgage payment by 160% after expenses are deducted), despite a property that's appreciated by $500,000 over the loan term, and despite a perfect payment record over the past five years, my refinance application was denied.

I frequently see people on the forum asking about how they think they're close to being able to afford a commercial property and should they go for it. Well, unless your property is generating about double the cash required to service the loan, your net worth is at least if not more than the amount of the loan and your property will appraise at the price you're paying, you don't stand a chance - not with a traditional lender.

In the case of US Bank, they really stacked the deck against me. Instead of using the 3.5% interest rate that they actually quoted me to calculate the loan payments, they used a rate of 7% - even though there was no chance I'd be paying the loan at that rate. By using such a high interest rate as well as throwing in big management fees, vacancy rates etc that do not relate to my property, etc they were able to justify denying my loan.

The moral of the story here is that if you're thinking about going the commercial route, have your financing in place. Banks will impose conditions that make commercial loans prohibitive to all but the sweetest of deals to the most qualified investors. You may have luck with less conventional financing - which is where I'm headed. Just know that there's a huge difference between residential lending and commercial.

0Reply
35 views

Most Popular Reply

Rental Property Investor · Southport, CT · Member since 2008 · 160 posts · 137 votes
13y

John Mireles Commercial lending has been in turmoil since the financial meltdown; I'm hearing that things are getting better, but the new normal is still difficult to deal with. My suggestion, if you haven't done so already, is to start by putting together detailed financial presentation about the property's current and projected performance; then bring that to a commercial mortgage broker, someone who can probably save you a lot of time by focusing on lenders who are a reasonably good match for your loan.

See this reply in the discussion

16 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Real Estate Investor · Riverview, FL · Member since 2011 · 100 posts · 33 votes
    13y

    This is a little concerning. We are about to start into the MF arena, and being able to re-fi after a value-add seasoning period, the main banks were a considered avenue. Even with having a bank, (TD Bank), suggest that they would be interested, (a conversation I have had), John's post raises the question of what really to expect on the day of need.

    Great care is being put into the due-diligence process to purchase, but the re-fi cash-out process must really be considered up front as part of your exit strategy. Do we only purchase properties we think a bank would re-fi?

    What do the CRE investors/brokers/bankers here at BP have to comment? What re-fi strategy do you use when buying non-performing MF apartments for cash?

    Mike P.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    John there are tons of banks out there. What banks want to loan on will depend on current portfolio loan allocation and percentages and how much crud is on their books.

    Mixed- use is riskier in the eyes of many lending institutions.

  • Seth WilliamsPro Member
    Specialist · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 583 posts · 353 votes
    13y

    Hey John Mireles - as a commercial real estate banker, I have to agree with Joel Owens.

    US Bank may just be trying to tell you that that they don't want to do the deal (it's a "read between the lines" thing). I know from experience that this is a tactic that MANY commercial loan officers use to turn down a prospect. Rather than just saying "No" (which is what they should do), they'll make the deal look so bad that you'd be crazy to do business with them (unless of course, you have no other choice).

    I've heard mixed reviews about US Bank. They are a big outfit, and most huge banks want their borrowers to fit into a very conventional, small box. Many of the biggest banks operate this way, but just because they're giving you a hard time doesn't mean there aren't 10 other banks in your town that would be happy to give you much better terms and flexibility. Shop your deal around town. Make it your job tomorrow to call five other banks and present your opportunity to them - you may be pleasantly surprised.

    Also, keep in mind - most commercial bankers are looking to finance businesses that will occupy the building that they are buying... or at least a large portion of it (because owner-occupied properties are a lower risk to them). When I look at prospects, I can't even consider rental income as part of their cash flow - because (contrary to how good of a landlord you may be), many investors aren't good landlords, and there is no guarantee that the rental income will always be there.

    If rental income is going to be 100% of your source of repayment, then it doesn't surprise me that a big, inflexible bank would be difficult. If this is purely an investment property (and it sounds like it is), that could be part of the reason for the higher interest rate and level of resistance you're seeing.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Banks definitely seem tight-fisted when it comes to lending out money. Did you go back to them with what you told us here, or is it pretty much a dead end?

  • Real Estate Broker · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 104 posts · 20 votes
    13y

    John Mireles: What part of San Diego are you in? You might try California Bank and Trust.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    13y

    My guess is that the loan would have some kind of adjustable rate, so they inflate the interest rate to determine qualifying. Also, just because you self-manage today, does not mean you will do so forever (you could become incapacitated for whatever reason) and they project property management fees due to that possibility.

    I'm not saying that's right, but that's how a lender thinks. Getting a loan really does seem to require that you start to think like a lender.

  • Landlord · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 129 posts · 49 votes
    13y

    Believe me I'm knocking on other doors - though in speaking with other banks, I've been told that I can pretty much expect the same response. I'm looking at non-bank lenders. The problem is that the rates are significantly higher - from a point to three or four points.

    Seth Williams - The problem here is that this is a refi on an existing deal with a customer with whom the bank has had a long relationship. I can't think of a better assurance of future performance than steady income, low LTV and a history of on time payments. It's just a very tough loan market out there with traditional banks.

    And yeah, I went back to the bank and laid it all out. I even got the manager of the department on the line. He told me straight out that they were not going to loan to me no matter what I said. He would say one thing, I would refute it and then he would say, "Well we don't have to advise you of all the reasons why we don't approve a loan." Really?

    I guess I should add that they initially said I was approved pending the valuation of the property. Then they came back and said that no it wasn't approved. Instead of trying to make it right, they just tried to justify their actions with misdirection and a "get lost" attitude. I'm done with US Bank.

  • Landlord · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 129 posts · 49 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Theresa K.:
    John Mireles: What part of San Diego are you in? You might try California Bank and Trust.

    Ha! They are my current bank. I switched to them after the demise of San Diego National Bank. Those SOB's pulled my corporate line of credit after my divorce and refused to reapprove it. I pitched them this property and they told me straight out that there was no chance. I'm in the midst of looking for a new banking partner. Even US Bank would give me a $30k line of credit with just a personal guarantee.

  • Landlord · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 129 posts · 49 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Steve Babiak:
    My guess is that the loan would have some kind of adjustable rate, so they inflate the interest rate to determine qualifying. Also, just because you self-manage today, does not mean you will do so forever (you could become incapacitated for whatever reason) and they project property management fees due to that possibility.

    The rate quote to me was for a five year fixed. They tried to justify using the 7% rate because "the rate could fluctuate from now til the time the loan funds." Really!? It could go up 3.5 points between now and the next two weeks. There's conservative and then there's ridiculous.

    The larger point here though is that anyone thinking that maybe they can stretch a little and go for a commercial loan on a larger property is likely to be disappointed when they go searching for money - especially from traditional banks.

  • Seth WilliamsPro Member
    Specialist · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 583 posts · 353 votes
    13y

    Hmmm, I can see why you'd be frustrated. I'd be pretty upset about that too. I always appreciate people who are upfront with me and tell me WHY there's a problem (rather than keeping everything behind the curtain). That's more immature than anything.

    It kind of sounds like an appraisal issue may have come up (in which case, I'm surprised they wouldn't just tell you that). I know a lot of the appraisers we've been dealing with have made some absolutely STUPID valuations on various properties - to the point that it derailed the entire deal. It's been a huge problem as of late. If this happened in your case, it might explain their sudden decline of the loan.

    Unfortunately, the only way to get around a bad appraisal is to order a new one from someone else (and pay thousands with no guarantee of a better result).

  • Landlord · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 129 posts · 49 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Seth Williams:

    It kind of sounds like an appraisal issue may have come up (in which case, I'm surprised they wouldn't just tell you that). I know a lot of the appraisers we've been dealing with have made some absolutely STUPID valuations on various properties - to the point that it derailed the entire deal. It's been a huge problem as of late. If this happened in your case, it might explain their sudden decline of the loan.

    The valuation was indeed my biggest concern. I needed the property to come in at $740k. Instead it came in at $1,250,000. So instead of squeaking by with 70% LTV, I thought I was sitting pretty at 40%.

    How do you turn down a loan on an existing client sitting on 40% loan to value?

  • Seth WilliamsPro Member
    Specialist · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 583 posts · 353 votes
    13y

    That does sound pretty crazy. I've seen banks pass up on some pretty sweet deals in my career. For example, one bank in my town refused to finance a golf course, even though they would've been at 20% LTV.

    Why would they pass up a deal like this? Because LTV doesn't matter to them (or at least, it isn't the only factor they're looking at). They have to consider their borrower, the usability of their collateral, credit history, financial data from your industry, and on and on and on...

    Banks aren't always good at analyzing things on a case-by-case basis. In your case, it's hard to know what they're getting stuck on (especially because they won't tell you).

    Kind of reminds me of what Bob Hope once said,

    "A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it."

  • Stone Mountain, GA · Member since 2010 · 267 posts · 72 votes
    13y

    Why go to a bank-- many Lenders have plenty of money. Underwriting is different for Commercial and MF -- MF is Residential and little better.
    Problem is under $1 million -- few lenders will work on it-- so much refinancing coming up -- Management Fee ( 5 % ) and Reserves for Replacement ( 5 % ) is always deducted --standard procedure in MF and Commercial -- I am a Commercial Mortgage Broker --yes --if it is value added or needs rehab -- then we can look at Proforma Projections for three to five years --but then you get a Bridge loan OR const/ perm loan --rates are not 3.5 % --not even for SFR -- mostly for apartments
    5 % to 7 % --except --in upper limits --$10 million up--its around 3.8 - 4.5 % -- for hotels ( my specialty ) --I quote 6 % -- 7 % fixed and 9 % to 12 % for bridge loan -- Sorry --I do not do in California --

  • Rental Property Investor · Southport, CT · Member since 2008 · 160 posts · 137 votes
    13y

    John Mireles Commercial lending has been in turmoil since the financial meltdown; I'm hearing that things are getting better, but the new normal is still difficult to deal with. My suggestion, if you haven't done so already, is to start by putting together detailed financial presentation about the property's current and projected performance; then bring that to a commercial mortgage broker, someone who can probably save you a lot of time by focusing on lenders who are a reasonably good match for your loan.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    If the deal is as presented someone will write the loan. I talked to over 100 lenders locally to pare things down to the 5 we're currently working with. If you want to avoid that brain damage I suggest you find a reputable broker that can help as others have suggested.

    Your situation is EXACTLY why I always recommend paying the small premium to get longer-term amortizations and terms on commercial loans. Banks will tell you whatever you want to hear to decrease their loan duration. Guess what....that is passing their risk on to you. The exact same argument can be made for having non-recourse financing if the economy goes in the tank. Go ahead and pay the small premium for this assurance unless you are SURE you can exit the project well before your bullet or massive adjustment. You shouldn't be subject to the whims of their loan portfolio when you need to extend your financing.

  • Lender · New York City, NY · Member since 2013 · 67 posts · 7 votes
    13y

    John Mireles; the only thing I can think of; is that you were dealing with someone who didn't know what they were doing. Our loans start at minimum of $ 750,000 and we underwrite on income and expense of the property NOT tax returns.

    We tell clients whats wrong right away. Just tell us because we can fix it or we can adjust our guidelines to your loan.

    We went through maybe a dozen loans this week and got back to all of our clients within an hour-to two days and said its not for us or it doesn't fit our guidelines. Out of all that we are just working on 2 of them!!! Now one of them just refinanced in Nov2012 thats abt 3 months ago and its for 2MM out west for an ALF .

    Frank Gallinelli is right! rates are getting better for multifamily we are quoting 2.99% - 4.25% - 5/7/10/15/20/ terms and 30 amt.
    3.5% - 5% on mixuse-

    Dawn A.- Not really tightfisted, like any other lender just come with the required docs and be up front and they will try to help you. But if you try to hide things then you are ruining your relationship.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.