2nd Foreclosing Sub2 1st -- amout due on 1st???

Question

I'm looking at buying a property at the upcoming auction. The 2nd is foreclosing and the sale is subject to the 1st mortgage. Is there any way to determine what the payoff is on the first mortgage?? I know what the original loan amount is, but don't know how much it may have been paid down or what back interest may be due (certainly it must be in default also). I haven't tried, but I feel certain the company won't discuss sombody eles's loan with me.

Any suggestions?

JMac

Any suggestions?

JMac

John M. · Answer

Thanks Kathy for the great tips on finding someone!  The deal I was looking at has passed (bought by the plaintiff/2nd note holder).  It may be available as an REO now, but have been too busy to check and have better looking prospects in the works.  I'm going to print and save your post for future reference, though, since you have some good suggestions.  Thanks.

Kathy Utiss · Answer

Have you checked to see if the debtor in ??? has exercised any bankruptcy rights? A quick pacer search by debtor's name  will tell you if they have or not. Make sure you do a search in the court district in which they reside. Sometimes just a state search doesn't work.

If you'd like to have some help in skiptracing them it may be worth your while to email me. Also, have you determined if the lender that holds 1st does participate in note sales? One way to circumvent the debtor contact.Although some banks are getting tougher and tougher to buy notes unless their in large pools. But if you can get them to negoitate you may get them to give you a cbr. Or at least authorization to do a cbr to gain more info. As in this role you'd become the creditor. Which authorizes you to run credit info...

Also have you looked online county records or anything to see if they had tax records forwarded to a different address? Simple search...

Another great tool is ZABASEARCH.COM--If you know name, dob, any addresses they've resided at....Even if you can't find number at that location under debtor name...maybe title shows different name of ownership hence a different # to look for...

Accurint has or did have an exceptional finder for relatives, past employment...Neighbors sometimes do work well. Unless you live on my street and my neighbors LOVE ME...

I used to recover anywhere from $100k-$150k after loss mit depts of major banks wrote off accounts as a loss...So much so that I was known as DIGGER in my dept. Cause if someone truly had capability to rectify or pay I didn't give up till I found them...

So needless to say on some of these accounts I wonder how much of an effort the lender did put into actually trying to avoid taking the loss..One of the best ones I did was finding someone from an inquiry that no one could find...It was for a closing of a refi that debtor was doing...Inquiries on a cbr are a great help sometimes.

Maybe I'm not sure there might be companies that can obtain cbr without showing as an inquiry giving you some info...Maybe someone knows if these really happen seems like a online company did this at one time.

Best of Luck,

Kathy

John M. · Answer

Thanks Chris,  that's the same conclusion that I came too, but I was hoping that someone might know some way to get the info on the 1st.  The homeowner has vanished as evidenced by the foreclosing attny attempting service at about 8 address scattered around the country, so contacting them is not an option.  I'll have to let this one slide on by even though it looks like it could be a good deal.

JMac

Chris Montgomery · Answer

Unfortunately there is generally no way to determine the amount of the first lien, at least from any public document.  For that reason we generally avoid buying a second at the auction, even when it looks like there might be significant equity in the deal.

The only way to get the current payoff information from the bank or the lawfirm is to get a release of information form signed by the property owner.  Without that the bank won't give out the information.

As you stated - you can find out the original loan amount of the first lien, but with the late fees, interest, legal fees etc the current balance can be significantly higher than the original amount and it's not worth the risk if you can't verify it.

One other thing to keep in mind.  Generally if there is a competitive bid situation on a first lien and the price gets driven up above the starting bid, that overage amount will go to pay off the second lien holders.   However in many cases it does NOT work in the opposite direction.   If the bidding on a second lien goes over the opening amount and there is an overage, the exceess funds do not necessarily go towards paying off the first lien.  Seems illogical, but it's just one more reason to avoid bidding on seconds unless you have had a chance to view the loan documents and get the payoff amounts.