30 /60 /90 using list source question!

9 Replies

Good day guys! I have a question about using ListSource.com How do you narrow down a list (filter) to show all home owners that are behind in their mortgage payments? Are those people the ones whose equity percentages are in the negatives? Thank you in advance! 

They do not sell a list where the borrowers are behind in their mortgage payments where there is no legal filing. Any information prior to the filing of the first legal on a defaulted mortgage is NOT a matter of public record. You can't find the filter button for delinquent borrowers because there is none, again, unless the borrower is actually already actively in foreclosure.

If you are buying a list of loans in default, you are buying a list that is public information that anyone has access to and usually for free. The only benefit of a list like the one you are interested in is that it can be tailored to some precise statistics like location, product type, maturity date, property type etc., but there is no list for borrowers that are 30, 60 or 90 days delinquent.

To the second part of your question, no list you buy is going to answer the question of negative equity. The information you buy contains data at the time of origination, not today so, if you have a loan that says it was 80% loan to value when it originated in 2011, you don't have any idea what the equity or lack of equity is. The only way you are going to know that is to have a copy of the payoff statement and a copy of a recent valuation. Getting the payoff is easy, have the borrower hand it to you. The copy of the valuation is also easy, spend $400 to buy one or, trust a real estate agent to give you a comparable market analysis on the property.

Hopefully you get that there is no proverbial "List" that is going to get you the information you want. Yeah, you can get a list to start your hunt but there is SOOOOO much more work that goes into it and it only starts with a "list".

Hi, and thank you for the response! I was completely misinformed. Do you happen to know a a way I can generate a list (leads)? (I want to send out some yellow letters). Thanks 

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Originally posted by @Karla Yanez :

Hi, and thank you for the response! I was completely misinformed. Do you happen to know a a way I can generate a list (leads)? (I want to send out some yellow letters). Thanks 

 ListSource is still a great source to generate a list, just not a mortgage late list. Mortgage Late lists are quite a bit more expensive, however they are available.

Originally posted by @Brad Shepherd :

Check out Citracado. They sell late mortgage lists. 

Notice they haven't made an update to their blog since 2013? Any list worth anything includes borrower name, mortgage lender/servicer, trade line status, contact information. Any list that contains that information would not be public information. Anyone with access to that level and degree of information would not be using it under "Permissible use" guidelines...and would eventually be shut down, if not sued.

This subject has been regurgitated time and time again. At least for the last seven years, just on this board! Google the lead generators that people tout. "MyleadDog", "Yellowpapers", "Citracodel", "Mailinglist.org", etc. (Or whatever that company's name is), . They all have some "Disclaimer". Yellow list or whatever it's called cleverly uses, "These leads come from credit data so you need to comply with the Fair Credit Reporting Act to market to these leads". Who knows what that means? I'm confident that any list that has any useable information for the purposes of this discussion forum would NOT comply with FCRA requirements and would possibly violate some privacy rights that borrowers can expect with their financial data.

Yes! The data is there! Yes, you can get the data but is it legal? Do you want to be the poster child for the pissed off borrower that finds out you purchased their confidential, private and non public financial information and decides to go after you?

The only real information that you have a right and access to is public information. The only public information available for purposes of this discussion are foreclosure filings. Anything short of a public foreclosure filing is private information contained in the databases of a credit data aggregator. A credit data aggregator does sell this data to authorized entities under a permissible use agreement. I do not believe that soliciting a delinquent borrower is a permissible use.

Here is an interesting article from Forbes that I found relevant:

Credit rating company Equifax and credit marketing firm Direct Lending Source got hit with fines by the Federal Trade Commission this week for improper dealings in lists of people who had fallen behind in their mortgage payments. Equifax is paying a $393,000 fine for not having adequate procedures in place to prevent selling the lists to firms that shouldn’t have received them. Direct Lending Source, a firm that bought the lists, got hit with a much bigger $1.2 million civil penalty for selling the lists to firms currently under investigation for allegedly suckering mortgage delinquents into rescue scams.

“The lists contained information about millions of consumers, including sensitive information such as credit scores and whether they were 30, 60, or 90 days late on their mortgage payments,” says the FTC.

The problem is not that the lists outing those behind on their mortgages were compiled and sold. That’s allowed under the Fair Credit Reporting Act. However, the lists can only be sold when they’re meant to be used to “make firm offers of credit or insurance.” In this case, the lists were sold for marketing purposes and to be re-sold with little oversight (by Direct Lending Source — which appears to have gone out of business since the case was first filed).

...and not to beat a dead horse but, I am posting the response I received from "Yellowletters" I received when I queried them for their 30/60/90 day list. I have to admit that the response was professional and I was impressed. That said, all it did was validate my original post. It would benefit anyone interested in obtaining these lists, to read section 604. Would any of us qualify under the permissible use guidelines? Do any of you intend to offer credit, insurance or employment? I doubt that any but the most sophisticated (Financialy, business wise) individuals or entities would qualify to solicit borrowers behind on their mortgage payments based on these federal rules. I also wouldn't want to wake the FTC up and subject myself to fines and/or prosecution.

Their response:

"Hi Ron,

There are two types of mortgage lates, the 30-60-90 list and Notice of Defaults. NODs come from the county and are public record, and you can market to those as a real estate investor.

The 30-60-90 list comes from the credit bureaus, which means you would need to comply with the Fair Credit Reporting Act to market to that list. The FCRA requires making an offer of credit or insurance (see Section 604 on this link: http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/articles/pdf/pdf-0111-fair-credit-reporting-act.pdf) and also the appropriate opt out disclosures when marketing to credit bureau data. For us to run a count we need a copy of your mail piece showing compliance with the FCRA, and also a copy of the mortgage broker's license that will be used to make the offer of credit".