Anyone care to chime in?

Foreclosures
16yFollow

Anyone care to chime in?

Maryann L.
Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes

The dumbest Realtor in the Northeast. I can't even believe he got a license.

http://massrealestatenews.com/beware-of-the-short-sale-investorshort-sale-fraud/

0Reply
118 views

Most Popular Reply

Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
16y

Short sale investors would not exist if there was no demand for their services, i.e. enough retail buyers were in the market. It's a free market, everyone operates in their own best interest. If there was a higher offer on the table the seller would take it instead of the investor offer.

Bill's argument against short sale investors is the old one that the consumer is too dumb to make his own decisions. Therefore, a third party must protect him i.e. goverment, specially licensed government group (real estate brokers), etc. In some individual cases this might be true. However, overall, the free market sorts it all out.

Short sale investors bring much needed liquidity to the market of owners "upside down" in their homes. They exist exactly because of the service they provide - the ability to work thru 9 months of frustrating and often fruitless negotiation with corporate buracracies that are saddled with ineptness, inverse motivations, and governmental rules and regulations that negate the usual motivation of quick dealmaking. After providing the service of working thru these frustrations, investors who successfully complete the transaction can then try to sell the property to a retail buyer who only steps into the transaction when it can be closed in a reasonable time frame. Of course, the investors capital is at risk and he is not guaranteed any profit, the investment may well end in loss.

The economy works best when everyone works in their own best interest. This is known in a capitalist society as the invisible hand. Many people can't accept this because they can't accept the premise that people working "selfishly" in their own best interest result in a greater benefit for all. However, the result of so called unselfish interest is a government owned economy, and we have all experienced how well communism has worked!

One final note. The premise of Bill's argument is that whatever an investor offers on a property is too low because the investor hopes to sell it for a profit, so the seller should hold out for the higher hoped for price. This theory assumes that the desires, motivations, financial situation of both the investor and seller are exactly the same. Obviously this is not the case. A transaction can be good for both parties at a certain price. One party does not have to lose for the other party to win. Financial condition, ability to accept risk, time alloted, expertise all play a role. The people who are outraged by profit are the ones who believe that the economy is a zero sum game, i.e. if I win you have to lose. This is obviously not the case, almost all deals only get done when both parties get what they want.

Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
WebsiteView Page
11Reply
See this reply in the discussion

60 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Jon Klaus
    Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    16y

    http://massrealestatenews.com/beware-of-the-short-sale-investorshort-sale-fraud/

    0Reply
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    16y

    Just another example of another agent with tunnel vision.

    Podcast Guest on Show #130
    0Reply
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    16y

    I suspected it was a Realtor writing the article, that turned into an ad. Seems to me he is skirting on an ethics violation himself saying that other Realtors in those areas are not qualified to take the listing.

    0Reply
  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    16y

    The discussion in the comments is very interesting . . . I recommend taking the time to read through it all.

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
    3Reply
  • Maryann L.
    OP
    Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    Josh, I've read through every word. This guy is just full of mistruths.

    0Reply
  • Bill Patterson
    Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes
    16y

    My next to the last post on that article never made the cut! I provided some examples of his misleading statements and where he was factually wrong. I also called him out on his condescending reply to me as well as other investors.

    I think there is enough good information from "Charlotte" and the others on the post that should cause someone reading, to question the author's credibility and competence.

    BTW, I think the author likes Charlotte! He is nicer to her than the rest of us!
    Bill

    1Reply
  • Maryann L.
    OP
    Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    LMAO...Bill remember Charlotte got her "panties" in a bunch. She's naive too...

    I can't believe this guy can even get business he's soo stupid and that's putting it nicely.

    0Reply
  • Bill Gassett
    Involved In Real Estate · Hopkinton, MA · Member since 2008 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    16y

    NO MARYANNE it is me who is LMAO! Or would you rather I call you SMITnLIT?

    The dumbest Realtor in the Northeast has been observing this thread from people like you who make ignorant comments.

    This stupid guy happens to be one of the top RE/MAX agents in the country. You really should do some research before you make such insulting remarks.

    The fact of the matter is short sale investor fraud does exist and when investors like yourself try to pretend it is not happening you look really foolish.

    There are Realtor fraud schemes and there are investor fraud schemes. It is a fact of life.

    Do you really think that consumers are going to look favorably upon a bunch of investors who are selling short sales for profit screaming at a Realtor on a blog that it is all BS?? I think not!!

    0Reply
  • Maryann L.
    OP
    Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    Hey Bill, Welcome to the forum!

    "You really should do some research before you make such insulting remarks."

    I think you should take your own advice, because you pretty much insulted everyone that attempted to open your eyes on your own blog. Including insulting them.

    Bill take your own advice and do some research before you fill a page full of information on the internet with information that is completely misleading. At least here Josh probably won't censar you as you have done to everyone else.

    "Do you really think that consumers are going to look favorably upon a bunch of investors who are selling short sales for profit screaming at a Realtor on a blog that it is all BS??"

    Jeez Bill. You caught me with my pants down. Yes. I sell short sales for a profit and I did read your blog and everything you wrote seems to be BS...oh except that if it IS DISCLOSED that it's legal. That was the big thing that I saw that's true.

    Please by all means, go ahead and explain your blog to all of us. Feel free to observe this thread and every thread on this forum. You may learn something.

    0Reply
  • Bill Gassett
    Involved In Real Estate · Hopkinton, MA · Member since 2008 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    16y

    Sorry MaryAnne but I don't see any insults anywhere in my comments. I did not censor anyone either. If a comment did not get through it was the software not me.

    The article is based on facts. Short sale fraud is happening and there will be more suits and convictions coming.

    Maybe my next article will be Beware of Realtor short sale fraud. I am sure there will be a bunch of Realtors insulting me telling me that it doesn't exists as well.

    0Reply
  • Andy J.
    Wholesaler · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 286 posts · 255 votes
    16y

    I believe most members of this forum would appreciate it if you did not write any more articles.

    1Reply
  • Bill Patterson
    Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes
    16y

    Bill,
    Glad to see you on BP. I see you have been a member for quite some time. There is a lot to learn on BP and as a Realtor, you can provide some insight into that side of the transactions. That is what I try to do!

    You may be interested in the second part of a webinar put on by Attorney Ron Ballard, dealing with short sale fraud. The first part was about a month ago and was very interesting! The second part is tomorrow (Wednesday) at 2pm Eastern time. You can get a link at:
    [http://californiashortsalelawyer.com/?wlmunsub=391/b8f543cf37]

    This may help you understand short sale fraud a little more and help you speak to it more clearly and with more accuracy.

    Everyone that reads this post is welcome to join in the webinar!

    Again Bill, I'm glad to have you participating in Bigger Pockets!
    Bill

    4Reply
  • Account Closed
    Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Bill, I guess this is in no way an insult.

    So, in other words a real estate agent that works with a short sale investor is violating a seller's fiduciary responsibility. Seems like both a insult and a half truth. I'm quite certain that there are at the very least some short sale investors helping sellers. Perhaps you are not aware of any. It also seems that you would accuse any real estate agent that works with a short sale investor in the very least of violating this fiduciary responsibility.

    3Reply
  • Maryann L.
    OP
    Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    Bill, you did insult the people that responded to your blog. Your blog has also been edited along with many of the comments since you originally posted it because I have watched it from day 1. I have a portion of the original.

    I'd love you to post your original blog here. I think that it would add valuable discussion and I apologize for any derogatory remarks I made. I welcome your original blog for discussion.

    3Reply
  • Bill Gassett
    Involved In Real Estate · Hopkinton, MA · Member since 2008 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    16y

    Bill - I certainly don't claim to know it all and am all for education.

    MaryAnne - I only made one edit to the post and that was at the suggestion of one of the investors. The edit was "make sure you or your Realtor does their due diligence when deciding whether or not to work with an investor." This is located in the 3rd paragraph. The change actually was to make the article more balanced and not to suggest that every investor commits fraud. There were no other edits to the article. I accept your apology and if I insulted anyone including yourself it was not my intention.

    Charles - I have no problem with an investor flipping a home and making a profit. What you fail to understand though is that a Realtor is held to a higher standard when representing a seller.

    If you can buy a short sale of mine for $200,000 and turn around and sell it for $250,000 as is then I really did not do my job all that well did I? I am fairly confident in saying both the seller and lender would be scratching their head. Frankly, I don't care so much about the lender but the seller I certainly do.

    The fact remains that you are going to want to tie the home up for below market value. The odds increase that the lender is going to say NO with a lower price signed by the seller. That is not helping my client (the seller). It is my fiduciary responsibility to get them the best terms.

    0Reply
  • Maryann L.
    OP
    Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    And THIS Is what is SCARY. I'm not sure if Bill ripped this off from Dave or Dave ripped it off from Bill, but it seems like this article has been duplicated by another agent in California. So someone is "infringing" and spreading MORE mistruths. Anyone wanting to see Bill's original blog can now click on Daves and read what Bill originally wrote

    http://activerain.com/blogsview/1807505/short-sale-investor-a-word-of-warning-to-short-sale-sellers-iml-real-estate

    Bill click the link above. Your ORIGINAL article is there. Not sure who Dave is but he has your original article. NOW...there are MANY more changes that just the one you spoke of. If you need your memory refreshed click on Dave's article...wait your article...no not sure whose article it is.

    And Bill between you and me, I think this guy ripped YOU off although it could be the other way around. From what I see he published it a day after you but there are some things on his page that you wrote VERBATIM.

    1Reply
  • Bill Gassett
    Involved In Real Estate · Hopkinton, MA · Member since 2008 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    16y

    MaryAnne - He got it from me and I guarantee it will be removed from Active Rain. It is clearly plagiarism!

    0Reply
  • Maryann L.
    OP
    Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    ya, I had a feeling he got it from you. UNBELIEVABLE.

    0Reply
  • Bill Patterson
    Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes
    16y

    Bill,
    It is not just Realtors that hold themselves to a higher standard. Many investors do also. Just as some Realtors seem to forget this when a big commission and their vacation plans seem to align.....some investors are not quite on the up and up. The problem is that you lump us all together and cry "Wolf", or should I say "Fraud"?

    The point you seem unable or unwilling to consider, is that if the homeowner walks away with no deficiency, it makes no difference to them what the home sells for. I've explained why this works to you before and since most readers of this post understand, I won't repeat it.
    Bill

    4Reply
  • Account Closed
    Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Bill Gassett:
    Bill - I certainly don't claim to know it all and am all for education.

    MaryAnne - I only made one edit to the post and that was at the suggestion of one of the investors. The edit was "make sure you or your Realtor does their due diligence when deciding whether or not to work with an investor." This is located in the 3rd paragraph. The change actually was to make the article more balanced and not to suggest that every investor commits fraud. There were no other edits to the article. I accept your apology and if I insulted anyone including yourself it was not my intention.

    Charles - I have no problem with an investor flipping a home and making a profit. What you fail to understand though is that a Realtor is held to a higher standard when representing a seller.

    If you can buy a short sale of mine for $200,000 and turn around and sell it for $250,000 as is then I really did not do my job all that well did I? I am fairly confident in saying both the seller and lender would be scratching their head. Frankly, I don't care so much about the lender but the seller I certainly do.

    The fact remains that you are going to want to tie the home up for below market value. The odds increase that the lender is going to say NO with a lower price signed by the seller. That is not helping my client (the seller). It is my fiduciary responsibility to get them the best terms.



    What your implying though is that a real estate agent that assists a seller to sell to a short sale investor is violating their fiduciary responsibility and probably committing fraud.

    I understand that a real estate agent is held to a higher standard. Many other professionals are held to a higher standard as well.

    Seems quite likely that you have some sellers go into foreclosure before a buyer is found. Don't want to sell to an investor at a distressed price because it is not the full market price, but it would be OK to see the seller go into foreclosure.

    3Reply
  • Bill Gassett
    Involved In Real Estate · Hopkinton, MA · Member since 2008 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    16y

    Bill of course there is a chance of there being no deficiency but that doesn't matter if the lender does not agree to a low figure and it never gets that far does it? I am not lumping every investor into the category of a fraudster either.

    0Reply
  • Maryann L.
    OP
    Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    Bill, when you write something like this;

    "As a home owner you may have also at one time or another noticed some signs around town that say something like “we buy houses†or “stop foreclosure†or “We buy homes for cash FASTâ€
    If you are selling a home and it happens to be a short sale let me give you some words of wisdom – steer clear of this arrangement"

    You are lumping.
    I do see that you changed this in your article but many types of investors use these signs. Shortsalers, wholesalers, rehabbers, and really I can see you are passionate about protecting homeowners, but when you lace the article with this type of information it's extremely misleading and lumping a lot of investors into the "fraud" category

    3Reply
  • Richard Graham
    Real Estate Investor · Outer Banks, NC · Member since 2009 · 121 posts · 44 votes
    16y

    "If you can buy a short sale of mine for $200,000 and turn around and sell it for $250,000 as is then I really did not do my job all that well did I? I am fairly confident in saying both the seller and lender would be scratching their head. Frankly, I don't care so much about the lender but the seller I certainly do. "
    Bill i did not read you article but this quote seems to me you did your job perfectly. You saved your seller from foreclosure got the house sold hopefully w/o deficiency. The bank got what they wanted. The county got got tax revenue TWICE an investor made some money so he could buy another home, you got your commission and so did another agent. Plus you helped stabilize the market surrounding that home. Sounds to me like you are the F$%king hero with many more referrals to come. Am I missing something
    PS the home owner would be shaking your hand not scratching their head. And as far as the bank scratching that's what dogs do.
    By the welcome to the forum!

    3Reply
  • Maryann L.
    OP
    Specialist · MA · Member since 2009 · 858 posts · 306 votes
    16y

    Realistically guys? He could have just written,{if you encounter an investor that wants to negotiate your short sale, make sure they disclose they intend to make a profit. That's the way to tell if you are encountering fraud.}

    It would have been a much shorter and less of a plug for Bill, but certainly truthful and a lot less controversial.

    3Reply
  • Bill Patterson
    Real Estate Investor · Portage, MI · Member since 2010 · 470 posts · 315 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Bill Gassett:
    Bill of course there is a chance of there being no deficiency but that doesn't matter if the lender does not agree to a low figure and it never gets that far does it? I am not lumping every investor into the category of a fraudster either.

    Do you think that if our initial offer is rejected, that we don't negotiate and increase our offer? We will negotiate until we can come to agreement on price and terms with the lender. We are not "Retail" buyers that submit on multiple homes and close on the first one that accepts our offer and throw the rest away, often to foreclosure!
    Bill

    2Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free