I am looking to really dive head first into the multi-family syndication world. I have been listening to The Old Capital Podcast, Rod Khleifs podcast and reading books and blogs on syndication and at this point I'd like to hire a coach who can provide me with the guidance needed to really take massive action. I'd like to build up a cash-flow income stream of between $250k-$350k/year to replace my current income.
I have not yet participated yet in a deal passively and that is something that I plan on doing in the next couple months but ultimately I'd like to be a sponsor/operator myself along with a more analytical partner as I am the type that hates sitting down and diving into every single little line item expense.
Who would you recommend as a coach? And what do you think the number one thing is that I should look for in a coach before signing on with one?
I am also going to a Gene Towebridge crowd funding syndication seminar in Vegas next week and hoping to get some advice from people there as well. Anyone else attending?
@Kyle Kovats I will be there. Be sure to look me up. I do believe that better than jumping into a bootcamp or pay thousands on a mentor, find someone that is successfully doing what you want to do, and find a way to be of service to them. You can be sure that you will find many people next week that would love to take your money for their next bootcamp and mentoring program. I am not saying that this is bad, but their are other options.
@Kyle Kovats I’ll have to check out the podcast you mentioned. I wish I could make the Converge event but our partners are coming to CO that week. I agree with @Jeff Greenberg , the best opportunities come from meeting likeminded investors that compliment your skill set. Apart from that, I have enjoyed Michael Blanks material.
@Jennifer Slaughter I just started listening to Michael Blanks podcast too. I have found that the old capital podcast is the most informative from a practicality standpoint, I highly recommend checking it out.
a few of the guys that really give back on BP are
Mr. Greenberg already answered
and I am sure many others but those are the one's I see answering questions on the subject.
I think the Vegas event should be good.. best to get first rate legal advice before launching into this Niche.. Although to me becoming a syndicator is a very advanced thing to do and unlike folks that pay guru's for mentoring or coaching to just wholesale or flip houses.. I suspect those that mentor on how to set up syndications are probably worth the money if you don't want to wait around trying to learn it yourself.. or don't have a good amount of real estate experience currently.
Ive started to dive deeper into Michael Blanks content and this guy is dynamite. Thank you for the recommendation, his syndicated deal analyzer is amazing and im considering joining his mastery program. Anyone in it who can provide some feedback?
Just in my opinion. You cannot just listen to podcast for mfh.
I have similar goals to you, just starting as a REI, going head first into multi-family and looking to learn as much as I possibly can in a condensed manner. I would rather pay to learn from an expert in 3 months what will take me a year(s) to learn on my own.
Here's where I'm at:
Michael Blank - I have listened to almost everyone of his podcasts, short, to the point, full of great information. Months of learning on his site alone with a minimal investment. His spreadsheet is worth the $100 and his mastermind program is well worth it as well. I'm considering his course, just bogged down with other content right now. He has a deal desk program and coaching by the hour, something like $350/hour for a phone call.
Old Capital Podcast - Just starting to listen, like it a lot.
Joe Fairless - great podcast but have not listened to regularly yet. Spoke with him on the phone yesterday regarding syndication, great guy, smart guy, somebody that you definitely want to know. He has a mentor program you should check out. Has a REI conference in a few weeks in Denver, I will be there.
http://thinkmultifamily.com/ - have not researched yet
Brad Sumrok https://www.bradsumrok.com/ - people seem to be happy with this program, have not researched it yet, I see http://www.oldcapitalpodcast.com/podcasts/episode-... and https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/79/topics/149... now that I did a quick search.
Also spoke with @Brian Burke 's Praxis group. I'm very interested in investing with them but I don't think they have a mentor program.
@Kyle Kovats I would love to sync up and share notes. Unfortunately, I can't make the Vegas conference next week (btw, I just looked it up and Brad Sumrok mentioned above is speaking...you should definitely sync up with him). Any chance you're going to Joe Fairless' conference in Denver?
Originally posted by @Kyle Kovats :
And what do you think the number one thing is that I should look for in a coach before signing on with one?
Look for testimonials from existing students. Meet them personally, and have discussions with them outside of the event because sometimes they are just there to help sell the program.
@Scott Skinger thank you for the lengthy reply, some great info there. I am looking into Brad Sumrok as well. He seems to provide some good value through giving access to some off market deals through his program.
I do agree with you that if this is something that youre serious about then hiring a coach is very worthwhile. Why would anyone be opposed to paying a coach to fast track this and learn in months what it takes others years to learn?
I won’t be at the Joe Fairless event but I have heard some really good things about him as well and will start looking into him. Would love to compare notes after the event I attend in Vegas and the event you attend in Denver. I will send you a pm.
@Kyle Kovats having been around the SFR gurus for 20 years I can tell you that why people don't recommend training is that in the SFR space or wholesaler space. .the fall out is super high.. and the folsk that sign up for it many times are putting the 40k on their credit cards.. then really are not ready or capable of transacting and just end up in massive credit card debt.. that is why you get the negative feedback on paid for real estate education.
I would think on the syndication route.. those that pay for training have advanced real estate knowledge already.. can stroke a check no problem for the training.. and can execute.
I think anyone with some experience at real estate can go the syndication route once you understand it not really that complicated.. real estate at its base simply is not.
The challenge and I am sure Brian and others will tell you is getting your first deals done when you have no track record.. Unless you have a very good warm market and or friends family that can help you launch raising capital is a tough gig ..
Like for me personally I would never invest with someone on his or her first deal.. don't want to risk the learning curve and there always is one.. I also want to invest with someone who has worked through the down turn of 08 to 2011 and came out the other side think Brian Burke who I have invested with personally.
So as you venture out in this keep all that in mind.. If you have a financial background and access to a very large data base of accredited investors that will actually listen to you.. that to me is as important as learning how to do the syndication model.. have been on the street raising capital for many years it can be pretty daunting task..
Although right NOW its much easier just look at all the money thrown at crowdfunders..
For example, last night I was driving to a REIA and stressing about a property that I'm considering that is a couple of hours away in a small market. It is a good deal but I wasn't sure about a property management company and it is a 50 unit building. In the show wrap up, Gino was listing his "learnings" from the show, one specifically was, "Don't start analyzing properties in a market until you have your team, especially a property manager." Problem solved, I shouldn't even be wasting my time on properties here until I have analyzed the market better and have my team thought out. Probably obvious to the veterans around here but there are a thousand "little things" like that I just haven't thought about yet because of lack of experience.
Also, have their book. It is next up on my reading list. They have a course and mentor group as well. I looked at it briefly last night and it looks very promising.
thanks for the kind words. Keep listening. Our guests really make the show. We've been blessed to have some amazing entrepreneurs and multifamily leaders on. We stress actionable content and we mean it
@Kyle Kovats I'd recommend Joe Fairless and Michael Blank.
More importantly, you should, however, delay your syndication coaching until you have over-consumed the syndication content (podcast, books, and blogs). This step in the process is critical for a variety of reasons:
- Many people think that coaches are magicians, meaning that after a short period of time, the coachee would also start syndicating just like the coach. Sadly, this is unrealistic. It is very important to manage ours expectations when getting into a coaching program. The coach is only there as a guide and as an accountability partner. Syndicating is a different beast requiring a different kind of investor.
- During your education phase, and as you start to analyze multiple deals, you should start to know if this is really what you want to do for the rest of your life. Not surprisingly, many of us don't realize that this is a long-term play from the start and that play could get longer and harder than anticipated.
- Supercharge your entry into the multifamily space by learning the fundamentals of the business and the pitfalls to avoid. That way, when you start your mentoring program you enough to talk the talk, propelling your education phase.
Please, I don't want you to think I'm painting a grim picture, as I love apartment syndication and I relish the complexities that come with it; however, I understand why some of my investor friends' shy away from it.
Also, Kyle, I am always open to talking shop, so please feel free to reach out if you want.
Hope this helps, Kyle. Goodluck. Thanks! - Ola
@Brian Burke Once again, calling you in for your expertise. Maybe you can weigh in on the pros and cons of getting started in syndication and the process.
@Jay Hinrichs i've been fortunate enough to save up a nice little chunk of capital from working my butt off my first few years out of college (will be around $750-$800k after I exit a couple sfh I own in the next couple months). I would never put coaching on a credit card, I think that would be a bad idea. I am a real estate broker and I actually own a real estate school so I am very well-versed in residential lingo and I am picking up more and more on the multi-fam/syndication lingo the more I read/listen. I do recognize that I can't/shouldn't do my first deal or really any deal for that matter alone. But it's critical to use someones borrowed credibility as a co-sponsor on my first deal. If I sign up for coaching, I'm the type that will be all-in, I'm either all-in or all-out, just my personality. I did the same thing as a young real estate agent and quickly scaled from a rookie with $0 in annual GCI to nearly $400k in annual GCI.
@Ola Dantis Thank you for your feedback, I feel as though I have obsessed over the syndication space enough for the past month or two that I can at the very least speak the language, and now I'm at the point where I need to further educate myself practically, get more entrenched in education and hop in a few deals, even if just passively at first to get real life experience. Ideally I'd like to get in on a deal as a KP with fannie and freddie financing to get into the fannie and freddie club
@Kyle Kovats there you go... your the type that succeeds !!! and I tell everyone who will listen that I owe my entire career to getting my real estate license at 18 and selling real estate my first 10 years in the business ... with that background no doubt you will have a very WARM market to attract investment capital.
I have also seen folks that have been commercial brokers who started selling MFH do quite well over the years.. Quite well indeed.
Good luck with it once you close your first deal post about it on BP.. !!!!
@Kyle Kovats Obsessed?!!! LOVE IT!
You are certainly one step closer then :)
@Kyle Kovats I would speak with the sponsors/mentors about the importance of analyzing deals. Deal analysis is the primary source of value creation/delivering returns vs. losing your shirt.
@Ryan Cox totally agree and I just purchased the syndicated deal analyzer through Michael Blank which I have found to be a great resource as it's very thorough and on top of that it comes with 2 case studies to watch the analysis. It's definitely helping my learning curve for analyzer deals. Any other avenues you would recommend a look into for deal analyzing?
@Kyle Kovats sounds like you are well on your way to being able to syndicate. I think you should be able to do your first apartment deal as a syndication, especially if you put up a good chunk of money and build a credible team. You may have a hard time getting people that aren't in your circle, but that's ok. Once you prove that you can do it successfully, those people will come on board.
Joel Block with Bullseye Capital runs a syndication training. I have not been to it, but hear good things.
Keep on learning and talking with others. Partnering with a season investor may also be a good option on your first deal.
The successful long term sponsors are the ones that are being very conservative right now in their underwriting. Stick to that and of course run with extreme integrity and you will do well.
@Kyle Kovats , we purchased the SDA and I really like it. We still check against our own hand calculations and spreadsheets if the deal requires us to be a little more creative but I think it's well worth the money and the mastermind thread on Slack is very active.
All good info in this thread, but I'll add my .02 on Brad Sumrok. I work for him now so take it with a grain of salt, but I started as a student with ZERO real estate experience, and continue to be a paying student. I agree with @Jay Hinrichs that there are so many "gurus" out there that do not provide value, that everyones guard should be up. I regret that I spent six months checking out Brad, and getting to know others in his group extremely well before committing and taking action. In those six months, I passed on several deals that others bought, and they made a killing on them.
Regarding having prior experience, that is actually NOT the norm for those in Brad's group. Some have SF experience, but almost none have MF, and I would say a large majority have no RE experience at all. Jay is right that doing your first deal is likely very tough without a large database of accredited family and friends. One of the greatest things about Brad's group is that is puts one right smack into the middle of that exact thing. Not only are they accredited and looking to invest specifically in apartments, but they're typically very well educated on the process, which in my mind reduces my risk as a sponsor. We are very careful about following all SEC laws, and there must be a pre-existing relationship with our investors prior to offering them a spot in a deal, but it makes the fundraising part of syndication the easiest part.
I'm not saying its easy, and you have to work, you have to meet people, get to know them, make sure they know and trust you, etc. I have sponsored deals myself, but I invest with first-timers fairly often, as I know they've had a strong education, they're working with a very experienced mentor, and I'll only invest with someone I know well, and believe they'll come for help if needed. I would NOT invest with a newbie if I got the impression they felt they knew it all and would not ask for help when they needed it. In addition, there is a big incentive for me to invest with a first-time sponsor-- they're taking a much smaller percentage than someone with several deals under their belt. Certainly there is risk involved with a lower experience level on the part of the sponsor, but the investors are rewarded for this; and rewarded WELL.
There is also a huge accountability factor in being a part of the group. If someone were unethical, or simply didn't perform, they would not be able to do anymore deals, as everyone would know about it.
@Kyle Kovats looks like the BP community already gave you most of the names I was going to recommend so nothing to add there. Maybe some Grant Cardone videos, but those are more hype up than technical I'd say. @Jered Sturm also has a lot of great content on his website, but not sure if he does a formal coaching program. One other sneaky secret that I never hear anyone mention is SCORE - most local offices will have a few experienced RE professionals you can go and chat with for free.
My 2 cents is that, considering you have the capital and SFR experience, it may be in your best interest to do your first deal on your own or with 1-2 other experienced partners, even if it's on the smaller side (10-20 units).
Not only does this allow you to start building a track record for potential investors, but it also allows you to cut your teeth a little before you put other people's money at risk. Maybe your property manager will suck, or you'll inherent a "professional tenant" etc... - I would rather deal with that on my own and work through those issues (with the help of the BP forums, of course) on at least one deal before asking others to invest their money with me.
Another advantage I found is that lenders / brokers will take you more seriously because you can show proof of funds right from your own bank account, and they won't need to worry that the deal will fall through because the 500k you thought you had locked up from investors turned in 25k once they all backed out last minute. Then, even after one deal, those same brokers and lenders will be much more inclined to do repeat business with you, and the brokers will start feeding you more and more off market deals because they know that you're for real.
It sounds like you've done your homework and are reading / listening to the right things, but doing even one deal will put a lot of that education in greater context, and you'll realize what you want to go back over and learn more about. Ultimately if you decide to get a coach, you will get more out of it after having a deal under your belt.
@Scott Skinger - I'll also be out in Denver at the Joe Fairless conference, would love to grab a drink or something if you'd like to connect.
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