Power of Attorney to sign closing documents
Rental Property Investor · Weymouth, MA · Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 0 votes
Power of Attorney to sign closing documents
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Tom GimerBusiness Member
DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votesIf you are buying as individuals -- or are guaranteeing the loan for your entity buyer -- you can use multiple notaries in the various jurisdictions to acknowledge the individual signatures.
If you are buying as an entity, a POA will not be helpful. What would instead be needed is a corporate or LLC resolution appointing an appropriate individual with capacity to execute and bind the entity.
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- China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y
@Jeffrey Trudeau Your MA lawyer is right. It depends on the laws of the state where the transaction is taking place.
For example, many states allow a notary to close. MA does not (I was one for 14 years). Don't know about MO.
E-signatures are accepted on all documents I know of in MA - except the actual closing docs. My attorney says that these require a wet signature. Don't know about MO.
We can close here with a PoA, but you need to know whether MO allows that.
Many states do title company closings. MA is an attorney state. Don't know about MO.
Bottom line - get some legal advice from a real estate attorney in MO - and good luck!
PS - if you're in Deadhorse, watch out for the polar bears!
- Rental Property Investor · Weymouth, MA · Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 0 votes7y
@Charlie MacPherson Thank you so much! Very helpful. I will reach out to my banker & real estate broker in MO to put me in touch with a RE attorney out there. Thanks again, Jeff
- 7yMike D'ArrigoPro MemberTurn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
@Jeffrey Trudeau MO uses title companies for closing so you should be able to do a POA.
- 7yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
If you are buying as individuals -- or are guaranteeing the loan for your entity buyer -- you can use multiple notaries in the various jurisdictions to acknowledge the individual signatures.
If you are buying as an entity, a POA will not be helpful. What would instead be needed is a corporate or LLC resolution appointing an appropriate individual with capacity to execute and bind the entity.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
To add to what @Tom Gimer wrote, many states have "reciprocity" statutes when it comes to the power of attorneys.
For example, Pennsylvania has a statute that says something along the lines of "an out-of-state power of attorney is valid in Pennsylvania if the power of attorney complies with the out-of-state law relating to the power of attorney." I have no idea if MO has such laws but it may.
The main challenge that can arise with these POAs is when a third party refuses to accept the POA despite its validity. Or the third party may ask for some time to review whether they can accept this POA. This could obviously create an issue with closing timing.
My advice is to talk to the lender and the closing company to ask advice on what to do. Not to sound cynical, but it's arguably more important to have them on board than being "right" as a matter of law.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
- Attorney · Boston, MA · Member since 2018 · 109 posts · 63 votes7y
Originally posted by @Chris K.:
To add to what @Tom Gimer wrote, many states have "reciprocity" statutes when it comes to the power of attorneys.
For example, Pennsylvania has a statute that says something along the lines of "an out-of-state power of attorney is valid in Pennsylvania if the power of attorney complies with the out-of-state law relating to the power of attorney." I have no idea if MO has such laws but it may.
The main challenge that can arise with these POAs is when a third party refuses to accept the POA despite its validity. Or the third party may ask for some time to review whether they can accept this POA. This could obviously create an issue with closing timing.
My advice is to talk to the lender and the closing company to ask advice on what to do. Not to sound cynical, but it's arguably more important to have them on board than being "right" as a matter of law.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
Shouldn't the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution require the other states to recognize a validly executed Massachusetts POA?
- Attorney · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Sure. But if the goal is to get a title company or a lender to accept your POA documents as quickly as possible, it is generally a good idea to get their "blessing" beforehand. For example, let's say you have a closing that must occur by March 1. I wouldn't recommend that someone show up with an out-of-state POA on March 1 unannounced and expect the other parties to accept it.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
- 7yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Absolutely must have the lender review the PofA in advance. The problem I ran into is that the PofA for my husband was good to close, I signed for him at close, we started paying on the loan and like a month later it was rejected. We then had to close again because it was invalid per the lender. I wound up closing twice on that property. That was an AZ title company but the PofA was drawn up in MA (per the specifications of the title company/mortgage broker) it was executed properly but the lender did not find the wording okay. Now I read both documents and I sure could not tell the difference but it mattered to someone.......
- 7yTom GimerBusiness MemberDMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Originally posted by @Patrick M Nichols:
Originally posted by @Chris K.:
To add to what @Tom Gimer wrote, many states have "reciprocity" statutes when it comes to the power of attorneys.
For example, Pennsylvania has a statute that says something along the lines of "an out-of-state power of attorney is valid in Pennsylvania if the power of attorney complies with the out-of-state law relating to the power of attorney." I have no idea if MO has such laws but it may.
The main challenge that can arise with these POAs is when a third party refuses to accept the POA despite its validity. Or the third party may ask for some time to review whether they can accept this POA. This could obviously create an issue with closing timing.
My advice is to talk to the lender and the closing company to ask advice on what to do. Not to sound cynical, but it's arguably more important to have them on board than being "right" as a matter of law.
Disclaimer: While I’m an attorney licensed to practice in PA, I’m not your attorney. What I wrote above does not create an attorney/client relationship between us. I wrote the above for informational purposes. Do not rely on it for legal advice. Always consult with your attorney before you rely on the above information.
Shouldn't the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution require the other states to recognize a validly executed Massachusetts POA?
Not necessarily. By way of example, if Maryland law requires any power of attorney used in connection with a transaction involving Maryland real estate to be notarized as well as witnessed by two adults ... a Massachusetts POA that does not satisfy those requirements will likely be rejected and rightfully so. A POA is not a public act, record or proceeding.
Gimer Law516 Reviews - Investor · Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 15 votes7y
Wow. Colleen's story sounds like a total pain.
I am not a legal expert but figured I would share my experience. I gave my father POA knowing I would be away. I bought a house and closed at a title company (in Missouri). He signed all documents, handed over the check and it was a piece of cake. That was a 100% cash deal.
HOWEVER, I then with the same POA began to look for financing for another purchase. The banks were brutal with their regulations. They would only accept a POA that SPECIFIED the exact transaction. For example 'mortgage for purchase of house at 123 Main Street'. Even though my lawyer made the POA to allow for real estate purchases, it was the bank's internal policy that did not accept the POA.
This was absurd since the reason I had the POA in the first place was because I would not physically be there, and yet they required that I physically be there to sign a SPECIFIC POA, so that I would not have to be there for the closing. My argument was, if I have to come back to sign a specific POA, why not just come back to sign at closing and leave my dad out of the whole operation.
...in the end, that is exactly what I did. I flew back to sign at closing and everything was smooth.
Lesson learned... if you are using a bank for ANY documentation that you may need to sign, check with someone high up (cause the low level broker/agent, might say a POA will work as in my case, then the loan officer says no). Also check with the Title company. In my case, my father took a copy to the title company and the manager of said company assured that it would be accepted.
Hope this helps and best of luck to you!
Michael
- Rental Property Investor · Weymouth, MA · Member since 2019 · 6 posts · 0 votes7y
@Tom Gimer @Mike D’Arrigo @Colleen F. @Michael Sontheimer @Chris K.
Thanks for everyones advice! I went ahead and checked with the title company and lender. FYI the property is being purchased under a MO LLC.
Title company-
All they needed was a simple "LLC resolution" as Tom said, signed by each member, allowing 1 member to execute RE deals on behalf of the entire LLC.
Lender-
They required a POA. I executed a Massachusetts and Missouri POA. They reviewed the documents.
We are all set (allegedly) to close next week. Thanks again BP!
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