Super confused on 30-year mortgages . . . ?

Super confused on 30-year mortgages . . . ?

Centreville, AL · Member since 2020 · 32 posts · 4 votes

Hey folks - I am a noob, and I am confused. I have not done my first deal, but I am always looking at properties and crunching numbers. (I have not done my first deal yet because I am behind the game when it comes to a credit score/history - discussion for another day.) Somewhere along the way since I heard about BiggerPockets several months ago and begin reading/listening to BP stuff, I picked up the habit of using 30 years when calculating mortgages on properties. New SFR on the market? Crank out the amortization-calc.com and find out what the monthly payment would be over 30 years.

However, it would appear that this is wrong - it would seem, based on my conversations with banks and mortgage companies, that I can't purchase an investment property with a 30-year fixed rate mortgage. This keeps coming back to bite me - I am looking at a piece of property that would make a great trailer park, and another piece adjacent to it that already has several on it, but I keep forgetting that the monthly payment is WAY higher than I initially think due to my habit of using 30 years at first.

So 2 questions -

1.) Why do Brandon and friends use 30 years in their mortgage/BRRRR refinance calculation examples and books if you can't do a 30-year mortgage on an investment property?

2.) How would I secure a rental property (SFR) in such a way that I COULD take advantage of a 30-year fixed rate mortgage?

Thanks folks!

0Reply
83 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

It sounds to me like you are being fed bad advice and/or there is serious miscommunication. I have purchased many investment properties SFR and duplexes using conventional 30 year financing. The interest rate is typically a little higher than on owner-occupied properties.

See this reply in the discussion

47 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 40 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kyle Shepherd:
    OK. If I wanted to partner with somebody for the 25% since I don't have the 25% myself, how would that impact the equation?

    That's going to be an issue. Banks normally don't want to see that you have borrowed the money from another party so that you have "skin in the game". You could do an LLC and include both of you in the LLC. This will change the terms of your loan and that goes in a completely different direction.

  • Centreville, AL · Member since 2020 · 32 posts · 4 votes
    6y
    OK. That make sense, except I wouldn't be "borrowing the money" per se - he would put up the money, but then also get that share of the profits. Is that still problematic? I do have an LLC I could add him to.
  • Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 40 votes
    6y
  • Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 40 votes
    6y

    Kyle,

    Maybe you and your friend could do a few flips to get you started. This would allow you to build up some capital. Then you can branch off on your own and start looking for some SFH's.

  • Eric GoldmanBusiness Member
    Lender · PA · Member since 2019 · 359 posts · 192 votes
    6y

    you can get a 30 year mortgage on an investment property..... 

    G2loans- Investor and Commercial Mortgages531 Reviews
  • Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 40 votes
    6y

    Eric, we got to the point that he can do a 30 year mortgage. However, he wants to borrow the down payment from a friend. 

  • Eric GoldmanBusiness Member
    Lender · PA · Member since 2019 · 359 posts · 192 votes
    6y

    @jamesallen you can most of the time use gift funds. realized that my whole post did not go. i was working on something else. sorry about that. I know of companies that will allow gifted money to be used. 

    G2loans- Investor and Commercial Mortgages531 Reviews
  • Steve O.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · West Caldwell, NJ · Member since 2019 · 104 posts · 65 votes
    6y

    @Darius Ogloza I’m currently trying to purchase a multifamily. It’s a 2 unit in 1 structure. Mortgage person is telling me rate for a 30 year is 3.625. And i have to pay a point (2000). Does this sound right ?

  • Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 40 votes
    6y

    Would he be able to do gift funds from a non family member on a 30 year conventional mortgage or have to go another route? I've always been under the understanding that you can't use gift funds for a conventional mortgage, unless from a family member or relative on an investment property. 

  • Eric GoldmanBusiness Member
    Lender · PA · Member since 2019 · 359 posts · 192 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @James Allen:

    Would he be able to do gift funds from a non family member on a 30 year conventional mortgage or have to go another route? I've always been under the understanding that you can't use gift funds for a conventional mortgage, unless from a family member or relative on an investment property. 

    So. If your going the bank route, i do not think gifts from no family members will work. After re reading the original post. are we looking at SFHs/1-4 units or trailer parks? two different animals all together- trailer parks are tricky to finance, i have gotten a few done but it was ridiculous. so ill skip that one for now. (trailer parks) 


    SFH and 1-4 units Funding companies will accept gift funds but it will lower the LTVs by 5-10%. I would form a new LLC. Have that person on the llc and have an arrangement of how the money would be allocated. People have been skipping out on llcs now because they can get better terms under their own name by maybe not disclosing that it is strictly investment.....i would not recommend doing. example: My MT house might be used by me 1 week out of 52 and i rent it out the other 51 weeks....precovid.. as an air bnb. Mostly every deal i do, i use a separate LLC unless it makes sense to keep it in one. If you want to bring that person in as a partner start a new LLC. I don't know if that helped. but i did like the idea of doing some flips to build capital up and get the partner out and go your own way after. The only way to get into to this is to dive in. start with some flips.

    G2loans- Investor and Commercial Mortgages531 Reviews
  • Civil Engineer · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2015 · 15 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    If you purchase a property and rent it out immediately then banks will consider it an investment property and will need to put down 20%. If you intend to purchase the property as an owner-occupied and rent it out a year after you've already lived in the property, then you would only need 5% down and it would be your primary residence until you decide to rent it out. Now, to your insurance company (at least mine), any property that I rent out, regardless of the units, is treated as a commercial property in their eyes. I don't know a bunch about land, but from my understanding it's a commercial property with commercial financing. I think you're getting caught up too much with the 30-year loan. You can have a 30 year loan, 15 year year old, etc. on a owner-occupied, rental property, etc. It really depends on how you set up your business. 

  • Lender · Frisco, TX · Member since 2019 · 546 posts · 270 votes
    6y

    @Kyle Shepherd You can do a 30 year fixed mortgage on an investment property, but there are certain types of eligible property. The issue with trailers and mobile home parks is that they generally are not deeded as real estate. They are usually deeded as property rather than real estate. Mortgages are strictly for real estate

  • Lender · Frisco, TX · Member since 2019 · 546 posts · 270 votes
    6y

    I should add that residential real estate is a home that meets basic minimum property requirements and is between 1 to 4 units. So anywhere from a single-family home to a quadruplex

  • David BarnettPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Cambridge, MA · Member since 2016 · 634 posts · 415 votes
    6y

    I really don't think borrowing the down payment at this point in the market cycle is a good idea...

  • Centreville, AL · Member since 2020 · 32 posts · 4 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @David Barnett:

    I really don't think borrowing the down payment at this point in the market cycle is a good idea...

    As mentioned earlier, I would not be borrowing the downpayment. It would be a partnership setup where he would own part of the venture.

  • David BarnettPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Cambridge, MA · Member since 2016 · 634 posts · 415 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kyle Shepherd:
    Originally posted by @David Barnett:

    I really don't think borrowing the down payment at this point in the market cycle is a good idea...

    As mentioned earlier, I would not be borrowing the downpayment. It would be a partnership setup where he would own part of the venture.

    Fair enough.  This detail brings you back into commercial financing or portfolio lending (i.e. more than likely non 30 year mortgages).  My spidey senses are up and if I were you, I'd be very careful.  

  • Member since 2020 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    6y

    Shop around at different lenders. You will find someone who does 30 year. 

  • Lender · Frisco, TX · Member since 2019 · 546 posts · 270 votes
    6y

    @Kyle Shepherd Speaking only for residential mortgages, I don't know anything about commercial, you would have to go with a conventional loan (instead of FHA, VA, USDA) if you do not plan on living in the property since it is the only program that allows non-owner occupied. Conventional loans can be stricter about where the down payment comes from. In your case, it sounds like it would technically be considered a "gift." Typically the gift must come from a blood relative

  • Rental Property Investor · Manitowoc, WI · Member since 2016 · 178 posts · 186 votes
    6y

    @Kyle Shepherd has nothing to do with your loan officer being “good” or “bad”, some banks operate that way in that if you are not occupying the property they only offer commercial financing. More often than not I’d bet it’s a policy thing not a loan officer thing

  • Centreville, AL · Member since 2020 · 32 posts · 4 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brad L.:

    @Kyle Shepherd has nothing to do with your loan officer being “good” or “bad”, some banks operate that way in that if you are not occupying the property they only offer commercial financing. More often than not I’d bet it’s a policy thing not a loan officer thing

    That's really helpful to know.

  • Rental Property Investor · Waterville, NY · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 26 votes
    6y

    @Kyle Shepherd. Don't be discouraged. Different banks will offer different loans. I was shopping around for financing for a 4 unit property, I was told by two banks that FHA loans were not available on 4 units, only up to 3. Another told me I could use the rental incomes as income to help qualify for the loan, the first two did not allow that. The third said, sure, 4-plex is fine with FHA. A fourth bank said no and a 4 plex wouldn't qualify for any conventional loans and would need to be commercial with 20% down.

    Not a single one said, “well here at our bank, this is how we do it.” Figure out what you want or need, then talk to the banks to see who can best fit your needs. You may be surprised how different the loan origination fees can be with some banks.

    Best of luck.

  • Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    @Kyle Shepherd

    I have purchased a 2-unit property with a 30-year fixed rate mortgage. It sounds like you got bad advice. In my experience, generally 1-4 units can be financed with retail/consumer 30-year financing. Once you move up to 5+ units is where you get into commercial financing where like others have said, you move into 20-25 year amortization terms.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.