Breaking FHA rules.

Breaking FHA rules.

Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes

My girlfriend and I live in a house (with a conventional mortgage) that we don't wish to move out of. I want to get into rentals, but don't yet have the capital to put %20 down on a sfr in my area. I do however have the money to put 3.5% down on a duplex or triplex. Someone recently gave me the idea of acquiring a triplex with an fha loan, rehabbing two of the units, renting them out, and taking my time with the third rehab. Or even rehab all three, rent two out and air b&b the third until the one year is up. Then I would rent out the third as well. Clearly I'm talking about getting an FHA, and then breaking the rules by not moving in.

My questions are:

1. What is your take on this?

2. What are my odds of getting caught?

3. What are the ramifications of being caught?

4. Hypothetically, if I couldn't possibly get caught, is this plan a smart one?

5. Should I refinance (brrrr style) after renting two out, or after the year has past and I have all three rented out, or not until the mortgage is paid down enough to remove the PMI?

Other notes:

I'm in Illinois

I'm a plumber

I have a good credit score

Sorry if my post is dumb

Thanks!

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Chris MasonPro Member
Moderator
Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

2. What are my odds of getting caught?

 Are you asking about your odds now, or are you asking about your previous odds back before the very first google search result for "your name real estate" is your biggerpockets profile that links to this thread...? 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    Well thanks for all the feedback guys. To be clear, I didn't know where the issue landed on the continuum between some fine print clause that barely matters to the bank, and some big legal thing. Clearly the feedback is showing me that it's a big important legal matter, and now I know that. This was the point of the post. Couple people took it as an opportunity to make me seem like a jerk and thus virtue signal (such a big juicy temptation for people on social media these days). Anyways, thanks to those of you with constructive criticism!

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Lynnette E. Thanks for the response! That's interesting. I'm no longer even remotely interested in the hypothetical, but I'll keep posting devil's advocate. What if you changed all of your forms (mailing address, license, etc) but didn't move? What would be the evidence then? I'm also wondering if you move to the triplex and air b&b out the old house, but never changed those over to the triplex (mailing address, license, etc), could you be charged with not moving in even though you did move in?

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @William Harrison I am, but I don't know if I could get my girlfriend on board with that. I might have to do private money or save up forever

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Pete Reed I'm new to all this and still trying to figure out if my risk tolerance allows for hard money loans

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    I think your best bet is to owner occupy for a year. You can rent or airbnb your other house.  Or GF can stay in it. 

    Also, if you are a plumber you make decent money. Stop spending on frivolus things and start saving. If you desire to invest in RE it takes money. It really is amazing how fast you can save if you have the will to do it :)

  • Catskill, NY · Member since 2018 · 636 posts · 668 votes
    7y

    I recommend AirBnB of your current home for a year or you could rent it out on a year lease. Since it’s your primary, I would make sure

    you do an extensive background check on them.

    I hear you on your GF probably not being on board with it, though. I’ve considered doing the same thing, but I know my wife wouldn’t go for it, so I never brought it up.

  • Specialist · Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 59 posts · 41 votes
    7y

    @Kirk Perecich get another job. Open you own business. Do something.

    You don't seem like a problem solver to me and that is what it actually takes to get involved in REI not the 20% of a "nice place" or 100% of a turd.

    Figure out how to make more money, legally, that seems to be your issue.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Piedmont, SC · Member since 2018 · 119 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    @Kirk Perecich. Even if your not able to save up the 20% you can always see if the owner wants to owner finance it to you. Most of the owners are used to receiving payments so getting payments with no phone calls is good for a lot of owners. You need to find the property and see what options fit. If it’s a good deal you can find the financing. Might not be great interest rates but it will still get u in the game. I understand you asking what if this and that. It’s always good to ask questions but best bet if there’s a law against it you shouldn’t do it. Good luck

  • San Marcos, TX · Member since 2018 · 42 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    @Kirk Perecich I think its a bad idea if you have to break the law to do it or to get other people to co-sign you breaking the law. I would suggest to do it the right way. Good luck!

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Mary Mitchell thanks for your tip. However, your assumption if me spending in frivolous things is unfounded. I work 40 hours a week for a plumbing company and do side jobs on many nights and weekends (to the point where it's alienated my friends). My house is 880 square feet, my car is a used 08 aveo that has manual crank up windows and manual locks and a gaping hole in the bumper. I rarely ever eat out. I quit alcohol 2 years ago. I quit cigarettes 8 years ago. I'm not even tempted to but frivolous things. It still would take me a long time to build up 20% of something in my area. So my options at this point are things like hard money, partners, seller financing, FHA, etc

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Earl Hatmaker Once again, I work a lot. And I don't do anything illegal. I was asking about a hypothetical situation that a successful investor floated to me to see if breaking that rule was a big deal, and found that it is. So I have no interest in doing it. I'm doing a bunch of things to try to solve a problem including this post, where I ask about a potential solution. So I don't think I've indicated to you that I'm not a problem solver

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @John Hovanec Thanks! Good idea

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Timothy Paul russell Thanks

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Account Closed I wasnt assuming anything, sorry if it came off that way. I was just suggesting paths towards your goals good luck :)

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Mary Mitchell Thanks Mary!

  • Investor · Houston Texas · Member since 2018 · 21 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Kirk Perecich Do a google search for “fha and real estate investors” scroll down and you will see a whole article about this topic under investopedia.

  • Lewisville, TX · Member since 2015 · 341 posts · 264 votes
    7y

    @Kirk Perecich

    Get out of your area! I’m leaving Dallas for sake reasons & just as frugal!

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 326 posts · 279 votes
    7y

    Based on all of the replies I'm hoping @Account Closed would not go through a plan like this and has learned the potential outcome of mortgage fraud.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 56 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    @Kirk Perecich

    Looks like you got some great advice as far as getting a multifamily. I say get the property and focus on using the two rentals to help pay the mortgage and insurance, live in the third for free and save money. I can’t say if you’d get caught if you rented it out before the one year end but i have colleagues that have done so within six months. No issue there.

  • Jordan MoorheadBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    @Account Closed suck it up and move out of your house. You're going to have to be ok with being uncomfortable if you want to be successful. Move back in your house in a year.

    People who try to find a way around the rules never make it in the long term.

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Dedrick Williams thanks

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Matt Millard Thanks. Yeah I've thought about long distance, but one of my strengths is that I know how to do plumbing and many other home building/ maintenance skills, so I think I'll make it work near me. And as far as moving, it's a good idea except that our day jobs are here and so is our families and friends.

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Michael Tripp Yeah clearly. Are my replies not showing up for anyone? I've mentioned like 6 times that I'm not doing it

  • Contractor · Westmont, IL · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 31 votes
    7y

    @Jordan Moorhead Yeah I'm willing to move, but my girlfriend isn't. And if she's not on board, I'll just have to do some other plan. And yeah I had no interest in going around the law in any way

  • Real Estate Agent · Allentown, PA · Member since 2016 · 70 posts · 86 votes
    7y
    I would NOT do this... Especially now that you posted on a public forum about it. If you really want this you will have to make some sacrifices...like moving. You could even rent out the home you own at the same time you will speed up your process by doing it this way and you won't be worried about going to jail. It's like a triple win!
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