Tenant want to hire and pay for a plumber themselves

[Evan Hauler]

Hello, 

I just bought, my first ever property/home (woo), and there is an existing in the lower unit. And they have reported a slow clog in their bathtub, the thing is they offered to hire a plumber and pay for it themselves.

Ive never heard of anyone doing this, and was wondering if it is legal or what are my risks by allowing this? 

Thank you :)

[Theresa Harris]

If there is a problem, I'd call a plumber and get it fixed.  If it happens a second time, then you hire the plumber, but they pay for it.

[Richard F.]

Aloha,

It is legal, but a VERY poor decision if you allow it. You need to source and vet your own contractors, making sure they are properly licensed where necessary, properly insured (including Worker's Comp if they have employees or subs), and will stand behind their work. You need to build relationships with vendors that prove to be honest and provide a reasonable value over multiple call-outs. They should be working FOR you, and reporting TO you...NOT taking direction from Tenants, or telling the Tenant about the poor condition of their...whatever.

If the Tenant was living there prior to your ownership, they should be responsible for any blockage resulting from their actions or misuse. Request your plumber to include details on the invoice regarding what, if anything, they pulled back, and how far out the blockage was. Ideally have the plumber call you from the site once he has evaluated the problem.

If the blockage is tree roots, or more than five or ten feet out depending on the configuration of the plumbing system, then the issue would generally be your responsibility. If it is just a clogged "P" Trap under your tub (or just hair accumulation in the line that is pulled back by the snake), or something put down the toilet that should not have been, the Tenant should reimburse you for the service call.

Also, it is a very poor idea to recommend or allow Tenants to use "drain cleaner" to clear a slow or blocked line. Depending on the age and material of the pipes, it is entirely possible for them to "burn" clear through the drain line, creating leaks that will require replacing pipes hidden in the wall or under the floor. In fact, it is not all that uncommon when using a commercial drain auger to break through weak waste lines,either.

[Eliott Elias]

I don’t usually allow this. Unless they are a well-known company and I vet them.

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Evan Hauler:

I disagree with some of the others. The Tenant did the right thing by reporting it. They apparently feel responsible for the clog, so they're willing to pay for it. These are good signs!

I would tell her to use a professional plumber and that she may be responsible for any damages caused. It's that easy.

[Julie Hartman]

@Evan Hauler I take a different view of this tenant request. If they are an existing tenant and have a drain clog, it's most likely due to hair from thier time in the property. I would let them take care of it. A plumber will simply use a tool to pull the hair up and the drain will be clear again. No big deal. 

[Colleen F.]

@Evan Hauler  Maybe because the last landlord just ignored them or because they think they are responsible. Ask them did they have a company in mind or more importantly did someone come before and not fix the issue.   In any case let them know you will select someone and they can arrange timing for the repair. You will be paying unless there is some evidence they caused the issue. 

[Bruce Woodruff]

I would always have the landlord hire the Contractors/workers. You do NOT want unlicensed companies on the property doing who knows what, anything bad (fires/floods/etc) happens and you are on the hook for damages plus insurance may not cover claims.

This is a no-brainer. It's too easy to just hire a licensed Contr and maintain control yourself, as you should....

[Melanie Thomas]

I strongly advise that you always engage your own trusted and thoroughly vetted vendors to reduce potential liabilities. It's possible that a tenant might hire someone from less secure sources like Craigslist, leading to situations that could range from property theft to physical assault.

Moreover, there's the additional worry about the safety of vulnerable household members, such as children, if the tenant happens to hire someone with a criminal record, for instance, a registered sex offender. I understand the appeal of letting the tenant handle these tasks independently, yet, in my opinion, the potential risks heavily outweigh any apparent rewards.

By using your own reliable vendors, you are in a better position to control and monitor what tasks are being done, who is doing them, and when they're completed. The added benefit is that you can also request documentation such as before-and-after photos to ensure the work was done to satisfaction. The goal is to provide safe and quality service while mitigating any foreseeable risks. Good luck & happy investing!

[Steve Vaughan]

Just pull the overflow and drop a little $7 snake in there.  Say hello and call it done.  

[Ray Hage]

Generally, it would be better to have your own plumber and have them pay for it if it their fault (for example, it's their hair). Sometimes that can be hard to determine. In this case, it's a bath tub so most likely it is hair. It probably doesn't even need a plumber. Absolutely do not use Draino, liquid plumber, etc. This is terrible for the pipes, especially if it has been used many times over the years. Let your tenants know not to use it. 

[Phillip Austin]

@Evan Hauler As you can see, this is an interesting debate with several different perspectives.

Generally speaking, you always want licensed and insured vendors working at your property. Although risk is relatively low, you want to be covered at all times. 

With that said, this sounds like a simple clog and something I would let the tenant resolve. If you know a reputable plumber that you've used in the past, I would give the tenants his or her contact info and let the tenants work with them directly. This covers your exposure, allows the tenant to resolve and pay for the issue without your involvement, and gives you peace of mind knowing a reputable vendor is working at your property.

[Evan Hauler]

Thank you all very much for replying, I am planning on going down there to see if I can't unclog it, it seems to me to be hair. And if I can then I'll use a plumber and depending on what's causing the issue bill the tenant.

Though another thing that just came up is that she scheduled a duct cleaner to come out, I asked for the company and they are highly rated licensed and insured. Should I have them come? Very little in management books I've read touched on this. Again thank you everybody. I truly appreciate it.

[Richard F.]

No Tenant should be contacting and scheduling contractors for anything. You/Your PM make those decisions, not the Tenant. We have the contractors contact the Tenant for scheduling only, and make it clear that any additional requests by Tenant must be approved by us.

With regard to duct cleaning, if this is for kitchen and bathroom ventilation ducts, it is pretty specialized due to fire hazard of grease buildups. Same for Dryer ducts. These should all be cleaned dependent on use, at less than 5 year intervals. For Central HVAC systems, timing is dependent on environment and overall age, but mostly based on a visual inspection. Proper and timely changing of filters should minimize any buildup, but environmental issues can be an important factor.

[Jim K.]

Quote from @Steve Vaughan:

Just pull the overflow and drop a little $7 snake in there.  Say hello and call it done.  

Reading this thread, and the responses go on by, and I'm wondering, and I'm wondering...and finally Steve gives the obvious answer.

This is your first rental, @Evan Hauler. Go over there and learn how to unclog a bathtub drain. It ain't rocket science. You can learn how to do it the fancy-schmancy way another day.

[Josh Young]

@Evan Hauler I'm glad to see that you took advice from @Steve Vaughan, it's important especially in your first property that you at least go check out the situation yourself and try to fix it yourself. This will help you learn, it will show your tenant you care, and you will be able to see the condition of the unit and any other possible deferred maintenance issues while you are there. Also, it sounds like you have a great tenant if they are willing to pay for clearing drains and duct cleaning.  Yes you should allow her to get the ducts cleaned, she just wants to live in a clean home.

[Eric Mcginn]

Sure, I’d let them fix it 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Eric Mcginn:

Sure, I’d let them fix it 

Admittedly, this is an easy one, but at what point do you stop allowing a tenant to hire Contractors and workers to fix/improve your property? That is the more pertinent question.....

[Eric Mcginn]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Eric Mcginn:

Sure, I’d let them fix it 

Admittedly, this is an easy one, but at what point do you stop allowing a tenant to hire Contractors and workers to fix/improve your property? That is the more pertinent question.....

I don’t know that there is a point I’d stop them from improving the properties. 
it totally depends on the scenario, I have a tenant that does all sorts of fixes for me. If he wanted to hire someone for anything I’d say go for it. 
if my brand new section 8 tenant wanted to put in a washer and dryer hookup in her unit, I’d just tell her it has to be a licensed plumber otherwise she can wait for me to get someone to do it. 
it’s definitely a case by case scenario but generally I would be inclined to let them improve the property as they like. 

[Patricia Steiner]

No...more than likely, there is something else in play here - maybe the clog was due to pouring something done the drain that shouldn't have been done.  You need to get your handyman or plumber to the property and assess the damage.  If the tenant caused the damage, then they can pay for it using someone you know and trust.  

Any time you allow your property to be managed by the tenant, it is a risk.  

Just my opinion/experience...

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Eric Mcginn:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Eric Mcginn:

Sure, I’d let them fix it 

Admittedly, this is an easy one, but at what point do you stop allowing a tenant to hire Contractors and workers to fix/improve your property? That is the more pertinent question.....

I don’t know that there is a point I’d stop them from improving the properties. 
it totally depends on the scenario, I have a tenant that does all sorts of fixes for me. If he wanted to hire someone for anything I’d say go for it. 
if my brand new section 8 tenant wanted to put in a washer and dryer hookup in her unit, I’d just tell her it has to be a licensed plumber otherwise she can wait for me to get someone to do it. 
it’s definitely a case by case scenario but generally I would be inclined to let them improve the property as they like. 

Hmmm, we'll do what you like, but I'd bet that that policy bites you one day...not having control over your own properties is an accident waiting to happen, IMHO.

[Eric Mcginn]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Eric Mcginn:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Eric Mcginn:

Sure, I’d let them fix it 

Admittedly, this is an easy one, but at what point do you stop allowing a tenant to hire Contractors and workers to fix/improve your property? That is the more pertinent question.....

I don’t know that there is a point I’d stop them from improving the properties. 
it totally depends on the scenario, I have a tenant that does all sorts of fixes for me. If he wanted to hire someone for anything I’d say go for it. 
if my brand new section 8 tenant wanted to put in a washer and dryer hookup in her unit, I’d just tell her it has to be a licensed plumber otherwise she can wait for me to get someone to do it. 
it’s definitely a case by case scenario but generally I would be inclined to let them improve the property as they like. 

Hmmm, we'll do what you like, but I'd bet that that policy bites you one day...not having control over your own properties is an accident waiting to happen, IMHO.

Thanks I will. But allowing my tenants to improve their home doesn’t seem like a loss of control to me. 

[Richard F.]

Whether or not an "improvement" is made, will depend on a number of factors.
1) Does the Tenant (or their so called "contractor") have the proper skills and experience to perform a specific job properly, using quality materials, and quality processes?
2) Do YOU have enough experience to know what should be done, and how, and with what materials?
3) Does your locale require permits for the type and amount of work being performed?

There are plenty of hobbyists, handymen, and others that can produce a finished job that, from 10 feet away, "looks great". That does not mean they have improved your property. If you do not know the steps they took, and the material choices they made, you are simply judging appearances. Appearances have little to do with the product life or the suitability of the materials.

All you have to do is look through a lot of threads on this forum to see the kind of poor work and unrepaired damage that is discovered when demo is performed or a second contractor has been called in to fix or finish someone else's work.

Cheap materials are the easy way to "save money" on a job. Are they installing a name brand faucet that will have repair parts available for 20 years, or one of the Chinese or Mexican attractive but poorly manufactured units that will likely be leaking in less than 2 years, with no parts available?

Are they covering up wood rot or termite damage with some Bondo? Are they "notching" floor joists to more easily run a pipe or duct? Covering electrical junction boxes with sheetrock? Are they using the correct type of adhesive, mortar, caulk, primer, or paint for the task? If the Tenant's Duct cleaners are going to be accessing vents on the roof, are they properly equipped with fall protection? It is, after all, YOUR property. If anyone working on it gets injured, or a Tenant or guest is injured as result of improper or inadequate repairs or improvements, YOU will be on the hook for it, along with anyone you can prove made the repairs. If they do not have proper licensing and insurance, it will all land on you.

As one of those "Rich Landlords", you already have a target on your back. Don't make it easy for them to sling arrows.

[Bruce Woodruff]

@Richard F. Great post!