HoA violation fines

[Prateek Bansal]

Hi,

I was charged $2000 HoA violation fines and now a debt collector has started sending me notices.

I was never notified of these violations (removing pallet board from backyard and repainting the home) in time as they kept sending me notices to my old mailing addresses. I got to know about this from my tenant and took the right action to 1) get the right mailing address and 2) address the two violations however it was too late and now I am incurred with $2000 fine + debt collector charges.

First I have heard about many other homeowners complaining about these violations were unjust. For example the house was in pretty good state and even the tenants didn't feel that it required repainting however I still went ahead and got this done. Second, when the notices are sent to the incorrect address, the post office generally notifies the sender about the correct mailing address however there were no actions taken by the HoA management team on this. Considering I was never notified in time, do I have a case here to dispute these charges?

I would appreciate any guidance here. Thanks in advance!

[Greg M.]

The USPS does not notify the sender of the changed address unless the sender requests and pays for this added service. 

It is likely up to you to make sure your current address is on file with the HOA. However, check your local laws. In CA, HOAs are required to request contact and legal representative info from the homeowners annually. Maybe something similar is in FL? If so, that may be your out.

My guess is that the HOA did everything correctly and your failure to provide the new mailing address caused this. I'm on multiple HOA Boards. Saying things about the fines being unjust, or that other homeowners are complaining, or the reason for the violation didn't really need to be corrected, etc, is just going to get me to close my ears to what you have to say.

I would request a meeting with the Board (by Zoom if necessary), be extremely apologetic about the issues, and explain that you must have forgot to give them the forwarding address. "I'm sorry, I thought I gave you my new mailing address, but maybe it slipped my mind." You admit responsibility. Then you tell then what you did and ask for forgiveness. "As soon as I learned of the issues, I had the pallet removed, and as you can see I did have my unit repainted. I'm sorry about all the issues this miscommunication caused. Would the Board consider waiving the fines and fees. It would really help me out financially."

My guess is that they will remove the fines, but you will have to pay the collections fees. That's what we do as the collection fees have to be paid by the HOA.

[Richard F.]

Aloha,

It is definitely your responsibility to update your HOA management of any mailing address change. How else would they (anybody) learn of a change?

Do you have a copy of your HOA Governing Documents, including the Rules that you violated? Is there a schedule of fines, or some system for assessing the amounts? $2000 is VERY excessive, at least for an initial violation. Perhaps you were assessed multiple fines over many months due to ignoring the first? Even so, I would seriously question that process. If they are not being consistent with the manner and dollar amount of fines being issued, there could easily be a Fair Housing issue.

[Nathan Gesner]

1. You claim you weren't notified, but then you also state you painted the house to comply with their notice?

2. You are responsible for keeping your contact information updated. 

I'm not an attorney but I don't think you have a leg to stand on. I would consider contacting the HOA to explain the situation, offer multiple apologies, and see if they'll negotiate the fines down.

[Ash Hegde]

I would try to contact the board and explain the situation, apologize, and see if they will bring the fine down or remove it. I'm on my condo board and our president sends fines out as soon as allowed so there is record of it, but is also quick to remove them if the unit owner complies. 

Checking your HOA docs and rules is a good idea too and maybe you do have a legal way out, but I would go with the apologetic approach first before fighting more aggressively.

[Prateek Bansal]

Thank you so much to everyone for their inputs. You are an awesome group here.

[Prateek Bansal]

I tried reaching to my HOA Board but unfortunately, they are not even willing to directly communicate as it gone to collection. They forwarded my request to the attorney here who I am sure is not incentivized to reduce the fines.

Quote from @Greg M.:

The USPS does not notify the sender of the changed address unless the sender requests and pays for this added service. 

It is likely up to you to make sure your current address is on file with the HOA. However, check your local laws. In CA, HOAs are required to request contact and legal representative info from the homeowners annually. Maybe something similar is in FL? If so, that may be your out.

My guess is that the HOA did everything correctly and your failure to provide the new mailing address caused this. I'm on multiple HOA Boards. Saying things about the fines being unjust, or that other homeowners are complaining, or the reason for the violation didn't really need to be corrected, etc, is just going to get me to close my ears to what you have to say.

I would request a meeting with the Board (by Zoom if necessary), be extremely apologetic about the issues, and explain that you must have forgot to give them the forwarding address. "I'm sorry, I thought I gave you my new mailing address, but maybe it slipped my mind." You admit responsibility. Then you tell then what you did and ask for forgiveness. "As soon as I learned of the issues, I had the pallet removed, and as you can see I did have my unit repainted. I'm sorry about all the issues this miscommunication caused. Would the Board consider waiving the fines and fees. It would really help me out financially."

My guess is that they will remove the fines, but you will have to pay the collections fees. That's what we do as the collection fees have to be paid by the HOA.

[Prateek Bansal]

Fair point though I was expecting they is expecation to send certified notification prior to incurring fines or email if there is no response to postal mail. 

There were two violations amounting to $1000 each. Looked at Florida statue 720.305 - https://www.flsenate.gov/La they fines as per the below. I only came to know about this quite a few months after from my tenant when they received the notice by the time fines were already $2000.

(2) The
association may levy reasonable fines. A fine may not exceed $100 per
violation against any member or any member’s tenant, guest, or invitee
for the failure of the owner of the parcel or its occupant, licensee, or
invitee to comply with any provision of the declaration, the
association bylaws, or reasonable rules of the association unless
otherwise provided in the governing documents. A fine may be levied by
the board for each day of a continuing violation, with a single notice
and opportunity for hearing, except that the fine may not exceed $1,000
in the aggregate unless otherwise provided in the governing documents. A
fine of less than $1,000 may not become a lien against a parcel. In any
action to recover a fine, the prevailing party is entitled to
reasonable attorney fees and costs from the nonprevailing party as
determined by the court.


Quote from@Richard F.:
Aloha,

It is definitely your responsibility to update your HOA management of any mailing address change. How else would they (anybody) learn of a change?

Do you have a copy of your HOA Governing Documents, including the Rules that you violated? Is there a schedule of fines, or some system for assessing the amounts? $2000 is VERY excessive, at least for an initial violation. Perhaps you were assessed multiple fines over many months due to ignoring the first? Even so, I would seriously question that process. If they are not being consistent with the manner and dollar amount of fines being issued, there could easily be a Fair Housing issue.

[Melanie Thomas]

Definitely your responsibility to update. I would play nice and nice, explain and ask for lowered fees. Good luck & happy investing! 

[Julien Jeannot]

I concur, 

- Get a hold of the CC&Rs if you haven't don so already and get your head around the rules, penalties and apply to your situation.

- Seek an audience with the board and see if you have appeal to their good grace or negotiate it down. Keep it super professional and respectful.

- If you still feel the charges should not have been raised. Contact the local bar association, typically they provide referrals to attorneys with a free 30min consultation.

[Richard F.]

After all the time that has passed, not too likely you will get a hearing with the Board. Typically you have 30 days from the receipt of a violation notice to make request in writing to be heard, or submit your written explanation/request for reconsideration.

[Greg M.]

Quote from @Prateek Bansal:

I tried reaching to my HOA Board but unfortunately, they are not even willing to directly communicate as it gone to collection. They forwarded my request to the attorney here who I am sure is not incentivized to reduce the fines.

The attorney works on behalf of the Board. He makes no decisions for, but may offer advice to the Board. He will take your info and pass it along to the Board. Same as before, send a letter stating your case clearly and contritely and ask for the Board's understanding and forgiveness. 

At this point, if they refuse you can either pay the fine or file suit against the Board. I would not drag it on with the attorney as you are likely going to be billed for their time.