Tenant Turnover Q's: timeframe and cost expectations

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Tenant Turnover Q's: timeframe and cost expectations

Dean ValadezPro Member
Investor · Member since 2023 · 64 posts · 11 votes

Hello,

I have been hearing on BP podcasts that tenant turnovers can equal about $6000-8000 (one host even said up to $10k, if I recall correctly) when lost rent and repair/upgrade costs are factored together. That seems quite high and I wanted to see what some of you experience. I searched for turnover answers but some of the posts were either old, or did not have exactly what I was looking for. I am fortunate to not have had tenant turnover yet and I PM my own four-plex and single family rental. I am simply pre-planning should I have a tenant move out in the future after their lease expires and they don't want to renew. I realize there are a lot of variables at play during turnovers, such as:

- What was the condition prior to tenant move-in and what is the condition after move-out?

- What property class is the rental (A, B, C, D)?  that could determine the quality level the unit needs to be at for a new tenant

- Am I doing the work myself, or hiring out?

- Is there a lot of updating that needs to be done to the unit?

- How long the unit sits vacant for repairs/cleaning, and finding a tenant

- City/town/state the unit is in

Please respond with your thoughts, hopefully with the bullet points above as points of reference and stated as such in your reply (I know, I am asking for a lot from you all :) ) But, for example, a Class D property in Milwaukee, WI probably requires less turnover time, lower quality materials, not as precise of a paint job, etc, than perhaps a Class A property in San Francisco, which would require higher quality materials, higher labor costs, longer vacancy since more precise craftsmanship would be required, etc. Thus, if the owner of their Milw, Class D property replied without noting the above, he/she might say it only costs $1000, whereas the owner of the SF Class A property might say, $10k, but if I didn't know their location, property class type, if they used contractors, or did the work themselves, etc., then I would still have too wide of responses to be able to anticipate what the real costs might be for my particular situation, property, etc.

For reference, my properties are in Class B areas of Milwaukee. I acquired the four-plex with varied levels of updates, but would need/want to paint cabinets, paint doors, trim, walls; if carpeted, replace carpet with LVP; replace faucets with modern faucets, etc. Some work I can do myself, but for time purposes, would hire out. Units are in good shape otherwise, besides those cosmetic/outdated issues.

Thanks for any input you all can provide!

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Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
2y

My turnover is ~$500 per year of rental.   It may fall off a little for 3+ years. 

I have a unit turning over start mid this month.  Tenant was there 14 years.   I expect turn over will be in excess of $5k.  I will paint all, replace rugs (rugs are only in BR), replace any shutoffs that show any signs of wear, at least one shower cartridge needs change, change all blinds.  Tub/shower enclosures may need deglaze (2 bathtub/shower enclosures). I will also change all 4 BR windows (common windows have already been changed) and a wall heater (not operational) but consider these cap ex and not included in the $5k.  I will also likely change to decora outlets/switches and not include this cost in the tenant turnover (again cap ex/ upgrade).  

Note if tenant had been there a few years, the walls get spot paint feathered to match.  Carpets should last at least 5 years and I clean them even if they look clean. 

Turnover costs are functions of many things including length of tenancy, quality of tenant, occupancy level, existing finishes (carpet has shortest lifespan but is cheap), etc.

I hope unit is ready to show by Nov 1.  Normally we do not have vacancies in late fall through mid spring and fill our vacancy in first open house.  I expect this one to be a bit more challenging.  I will be surprised if we have tenant by Dec 1 and fairly happy if by Jan 1.  

Good luck

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dean Valadez:

    I don't know exactly what the podcast host said, so I can't address that. I suspect they were talking about difficult turnovers with problematic renters, bigger repairs, heavy cleaning, maybe some missing rent, and longer vacancies. 

    I manage around 400 residential rentals. Most of my turnovers cost me $0. About 80% of my tenants get a full refund. Of those that require repairs, everything is covered by their deposit. Less than 1% of my tenants leave owing more than their security deposit will cover.

    Screen well. Inspect regularly. Document thoroughly. Establish policies and procedures that nip problems in the bud. If you do these things right, you won't lose much on turnovers.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y

    I should clarify. There are losses due to vacancy during any turnover, but even that is minimal. My average turnover vacancy is less than 15 days, so I lose half a month of rent and utilities. On average, my units turn over every 20 months. That's a healthy expense.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    2y

    It really depends.  I've had turnovers cost me nothing and I've had them cost me $5000.  The two that were most expensive were ones where we had non-payment of rent and terminated the lease.  Those cost in terms of lost rent, but also cleaning out the stuff that was left behind.

    If your place is managed by a PM, expect a 1 month vacancy (only once I have had no vacancy with my PM manage places, and once I had 2 months as they messed up and held it for a person-friend of the owner-who didn't put down a deposit and then they dropped the ball).  Then you have their listing fee (which can be a set amount or a % of the rent) and repairs.  I'm not sure I've had a turnover that either on move out or the new tenant moving in and finding things weren't working that I didn't have to fix something.

    For the places I manage (different city than where the PM is), aside from the two turn overs where the tenants didn't pay rent, I've been lucky and have no vacancies and usually minimal repairs/maintenance ($0-$500).  

    0Reply
  • Marcus Auerbach
    Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    I always expect about $6,000 for one of our SF in the Milwaukee suburbs, but that is different from an apartment. For quick math one month vacancy is almost 2k lost income, re-leasing expenses 2k and there are always at least 2k worth of work (sometimes just upgrades we choose to do). After 3-5 years on average you have to expect a few things to do and we also take the opportunity to do some upgrades.

    The range is wide: we just had a tenant move out after 10 years and they left the home in great condition, but had to replace 2 vinyl windows that had broken thermo seals, replace the kitchen vinly floor with LVP and upgrade some of the light fixtures. We also painted most of the rooms and replaced some of the carpet. Outside we removed an old tree and trenched in the downspouts to the street. That adds up quickly, probably over 7k in hard expenses.

    If you turn an apartment over after 12 months, you should have close to zero hard expenses and maybe a month worth of lost rent, possibly $2000 worth of paint and carpet depending on how old they are. You can't deduct reasonable wear and tear from the security deposit in Wisconsin, even though I sometimes see landlords try.

    0Reply
  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Turn over costs depends on a couple of things:

    1. Your tenants - are they clean, did they leave the place in great shape? Most of my tenants leave my place spotless - but that is due to good tenant selection. The dirty and more beat up, the more you will spend. Typically I have my painter come in a "touch up walls" like 300 bucks max. For larger homes this will cost more. Also to your point about D vs A - I think that your turnover costs would be cheaper for an a class property that a D class. Thats becuase your odds of repairs are much higher on D class than A. Renovating 1000sqft is going to be similar in labor costs if youre in same area. 

    2. Vacancy rate and market - if your market is struggling, and it can take up to an average of two months to rent out the place you have to factor in that that's two months of lost rent. If you're in a strong market, like the one I am and you can get a property rented out in a weekend while you have current tenants in place. therefore 0 vacancy

    my most recent turnover cost me $300.

    I've had other turnovers cost me $4k - that was mainly because of bad tenants who purposely trashed my place. 1 month in lost rent + repairs

    [email protected]267-767-0111
    Alan Asriants - New Century Real Estate 591 Reviews
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  • Dean ValadezPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Member since 2023 · 64 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

    I should clarify. There are losses due to vacancy during any turnover, but even that is minimal. My average turnover vacancy is less than 15 days, so I lose half a month of rent and utilities. On average, my units turn over every 20 months. That's a healthy expense.


     Thanks, Nathan. Just wondering, how are your turnovers $0 (as mentioned in your first post)? Don't you have someone, or yourself, even do touch up paint on walls, have to pay for cleaning services, etc? Thus, if you factor in your 1/2 month lost rent and utilities, plus any costs (even purchasing more supplies) to touch up paint and clean, wouldn't that still be a turnover cost of around $1000 (give or take since I don't know what your rent, utilities, paint, and cleaning services might be)? I am assuming that the 80% of tenants that get a full refund still have normal wear and tear that you need to remedy and then pay for....

    0Reply
  • Dean ValadezPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Member since 2023 · 64 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    It really depends.  I've had turnovers cost me nothing and I've had them cost me $5000.  The two that were most expensive were ones where we had non-payment of rent and terminated the lease.  Those cost in terms of lost rent, but also cleaning out the stuff that was left behind.

    If your place is managed by a PM, expect a 1 month vacancy (only once I have had no vacancy with my PM manage places, and once I had 2 months as they messed up and held it for a person-friend of the owner-who didn't put down a deposit and then they dropped the ball).  Then you have their listing fee (which can be a set amount or a % of the rent) and repairs.  I'm not sure I've had a turnover that either on move out or the new tenant moving in and finding things weren't working that I didn't have to fix something.

    For the places I manage (different city than where the PM is), aside from the two turn overs where the tenants didn't pay rent, I've been lucky and have no vacancies and usually minimal repairs/maintenance ($0-$500).  


     Thanks, Theresa. I am curious about the turnovers that cost you nothing. Did you not have a vacancy during the turnover? If no, how did you get the old tenant to move out to allow you time to clean and remedy normal wear and tear, and then get the new tenant in on the first? If you did have some days of vacancy, isn't the vacancy itself a cost due to lost rent? I appreciate your input!

    0Reply
  • Dean ValadezPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Member since 2023 · 64 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    I always expect about $6,000 for one of our SF in the Milwaukee suburbs, but that is different from an apartment. For quick math one month vacancy is almost 2k lost income, re-leasing expenses 2k and there are always at least 2k worth of work (sometimes just upgrades we choose to do). After 3-5 years on average you have to expect a few things to do and we also take the opportunity to do some upgrades.

    The range is wide: we just had a tenant move out after 10 years and they left the home in great condition, but had to replace 2 vinyl windows that had broken thermo seals, replace the kitchen vinly floor with LVP and upgrade some of the light fixtures. We also painted most of the rooms and replaced some of the carpet. Outside we removed an old tree and trenched in the downspouts to the street. That adds up quickly, probably over 7k in hard expenses.

    If you turn an apartment over after 12 months, you should have close to zero hard expenses and maybe a month worth of lost rent, possibly $2000 worth of paint and carpet depending on how old they are. You can't deduct reasonable wear and tear from the security deposit in Wisconsin, even though I sometimes see landlords try.


     Thanks, Marcus. This sounds more in line with what I have been hearing in podcasts, and I am wondering how some comments are that they have $0 in turnover costs. Question: what is the $2k for re-leasing costs? In other words, why does it cost that much to lease a new tenant? Is it for marketing, paying a PM to re-lease it, or something else?

    Why do you distinguish a difference between a SFR and an apartment for turnover costs? Wouldn't they be similar? You mention an apartment would also lose 1 month of rent (let's just say $1500 for lost rent for easy math), and then $2000 for paint and carpet. What about that re-leasing cost you mentioned for your SF? Wouldn't that apply for an apartment as well? If so, the apartment turnover would be about $5k-5.5k. Am I not seeing something?

    Thanks!

    0Reply
  • Dean ValadezPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Member since 2023 · 64 posts · 11 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:

    Turn over costs depends on a couple of things:

    1. Your tenants - are they clean, did they leave the place in great shape? Most of my tenants leave my place spotless - but that is due to good tenant selection. The dirty and more beat up, the more you will spend. Typically I have my painter come in a "touch up walls" like 300 bucks max. For larger homes this will cost more. Also to your point about D vs A - I think that your turnover costs would be cheaper for an a class property that a D class. Thats becuase your odds of repairs are much higher on D class than A. Renovating 1000sqft is going to be similar in labor costs if youre in same area. 

    2. Vacancy rate and market - if your market is struggling, and it can take up to an average of two months to rent out the place you have to factor in that that's two months of lost rent. If you're in a strong market, like the one I am and you can get a property rented out in a weekend while you have current tenants in place. therefore 0 vacancy

    my most recent turnover cost me $300.

    I've had other turnovers cost me $4k - that was mainly because of bad tenants who purposely trashed my place. 1 month in lost rent + repairs


     I appreciate your input, Alan. Question: when you have no vacancy, how do you get the old tenants to move out so you/your team can have enough time to do touch up paint, carpet shampoo, remedy normal wear and tear, etc., and then have the unit ready to go for the new tenant for the 1st of the month? Didn't the old tenant just leave the unit the day prior? As mentioned, I have been fortunate that my leases have been renewed and haven't yet experienced a turnover. Thanks!

    0Reply
  • Alecia LovelessPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    @Dean Valadez I’ve had turnovers where the unit had already been renovated cost me between $0-$50.

    For our units that need renovation I’d say we average between $6,000-$8,000. But this includes flooring, painting walls and cabinets, and some basic upgrades occasionally even new appliances.

    Our basic stainless steel stove/fridge/vent hood combo is about $2,400. So if we go that route it tilts towards the $8,000 range.

    I pay my contractor a flat fee each month so my labor costs don’t vary much. Some months he puts in more hours and some months he puts in less. If there’s a turnover it’s usually ready to rent in about 20 days.

    1Reply
  • Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dean Valadez:
    Quote from @Alan Asriants:

    Turn over costs depends on a couple of things:

    1. Your tenants - are they clean, did they leave the place in great shape? Most of my tenants leave my place spotless - but that is due to good tenant selection. The dirty and more beat up, the more you will spend. Typically I have my painter come in a "touch up walls" like 300 bucks max. For larger homes this will cost more. Also to your point about D vs A - I think that your turnover costs would be cheaper for an a class property that a D class. Thats becuase your odds of repairs are much higher on D class than A. Renovating 1000sqft is going to be similar in labor costs if youre in same area. 

    2. Vacancy rate and market - if your market is struggling, and it can take up to an average of two months to rent out the place you have to factor in that that's two months of lost rent. If you're in a strong market, like the one I am and you can get a property rented out in a weekend while you have current tenants in place. therefore 0 vacancy

    my most recent turnover cost me $300.

    I've had other turnovers cost me $4k - that was mainly because of bad tenants who purposely trashed my place. 1 month in lost rent + repairs


     I appreciate your input, Alan. Question: when you have no vacancy, how do you get the old tenants to move out so you/your team can have enough time to do touch up paint, carpet shampoo, remedy normal wear and tear, etc., and then have the unit ready to go for the new tenant for the 1st of the month? Didn't the old tenant just leave the unit the day prior? As mentioned, I have been fortunate that my leases have been renewed and haven't yet experienced a turnover. Thanks!


     In the situation that I had they moved out a week before which worked out. Otherwise I'll need a day or so to do touch ups and clean. 

    So instead on oct 1st move in maybe its oct 3rd. (you prorate your first month)

    When showing my appt to prospective tenants, I will typically know the condition when the current tenants move out. 

    In many of my cases my tenants have been spotless and even cleaned up after. 

    its case by case really but your tenant is one of your most important assets

    [email protected]267-767-0111
    Alan Asriants - New Century Real Estate 591 Reviews
    View Page
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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dean Valadez:
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    It really depends.  I've had turnovers cost me nothing and I've had them cost me $5000.  The two that were most expensive were ones where we had non-payment of rent and terminated the lease.  Those cost in terms of lost rent, but also cleaning out the stuff that was left behind.

    If your place is managed by a PM, expect a 1 month vacancy (only once I have had no vacancy with my PM manage places, and once I had 2 months as they messed up and held it for a person-friend of the owner-who didn't put down a deposit and then they dropped the ball).  Then you have their listing fee (which can be a set amount or a % of the rent) and repairs.  I'm not sure I've had a turnover that either on move out or the new tenant moving in and finding things weren't working that I didn't have to fix something.

    For the places I manage (different city than where the PM is), aside from the two turn overs where the tenants didn't pay rent, I've been lucky and have no vacancies and usually minimal repairs/maintenance ($0-$500).  


     Thanks, Theresa. I am curious about the turnovers that cost you nothing. Did you not have a vacancy during the turnover? If no, how did you get the old tenant to move out to allow you time to clean and remedy normal wear and tear, and then get the new tenant in on the first? If you did have some days of vacancy, isn't the vacancy itself a cost due to lost rent? I appreciate your input!


     I normally have longer term tenants in the places I manage.  Two turnovers, we had zero vacancy.  Tenants were out by noon on the last day of the month, we went in and did what we needed and new tenants moved in the next day.  For one we literally did almost nothing (moved out a sofa table that they left).  They both left the place super clean, so we didn't have to do much.  The other two it was longer but that was due to non-payment of rent and having to clean up a bunch of stuff.  We still only had 1 month vacancy which was great given the state they left it in.

    1Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    2y

    My turnover is ~$500 per year of rental.   It may fall off a little for 3+ years. 

    I have a unit turning over start mid this month.  Tenant was there 14 years.   I expect turn over will be in excess of $5k.  I will paint all, replace rugs (rugs are only in BR), replace any shutoffs that show any signs of wear, at least one shower cartridge needs change, change all blinds.  Tub/shower enclosures may need deglaze (2 bathtub/shower enclosures). I will also change all 4 BR windows (common windows have already been changed) and a wall heater (not operational) but consider these cap ex and not included in the $5k.  I will also likely change to decora outlets/switches and not include this cost in the tenant turnover (again cap ex/ upgrade).  

    Note if tenant had been there a few years, the walls get spot paint feathered to match.  Carpets should last at least 5 years and I clean them even if they look clean. 

    Turnover costs are functions of many things including length of tenancy, quality of tenant, occupancy level, existing finishes (carpet has shortest lifespan but is cheap), etc.

    I hope unit is ready to show by Nov 1.  Normally we do not have vacancies in late fall through mid spring and fill our vacancy in first open house.  I expect this one to be a bit more challenging.  I will be surprised if we have tenant by Dec 1 and fairly happy if by Jan 1.  

    Good luck

    3Reply
  • Lexie R.
    OH · Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 13 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Alecia Loveless:

    @Dean Valadez I’ve had turnovers where the unit had already been renovated cost me between $0-$50.

    For our units that need renovation I’d say we average between $6,000-$8,000. But this includes flooring, painting walls and cabinets, and some basic upgrades occasionally even new appliances.

    Our basic stainless steel stove/fridge/vent hood combo is about $2,400. So if we go that route it tilts towards the $8,000 range.

    I pay my contractor a flat fee each month so my labor costs don’t vary much. Some months he puts in more hours and some months he puts in less. If there’s a turnover it’s usually ready to rent in about 20 days.


    0Reply
  • Marcus Auerbach
    Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Dean Valadez:
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    I always expect about $6,000 for one of our SF in the Milwaukee suburbs, but that is different from an apartment. For quick math one month vacancy is almost 2k lost income, re-leasing expenses 2k and there are always at least 2k worth of work (sometimes just upgrades we choose to do). After 3-5 years on average you have to expect a few things to do and we also take the opportunity to do some upgrades.

    The range is wide: we just had a tenant move out after 10 years and they left the home in great condition, but had to replace 2 vinyl windows that had broken thermo seals, replace the kitchen vinly floor with LVP and upgrade some of the light fixtures. We also painted most of the rooms and replaced some of the carpet. Outside we removed an old tree and trenched in the downspouts to the street. That adds up quickly, probably over 7k in hard expenses.

    If you turn an apartment over after 12 months, you should have close to zero hard expenses and maybe a month worth of lost rent, possibly $2000 worth of paint and carpet depending on how old they are. You can't deduct reasonable wear and tear from the security deposit in Wisconsin, even though I sometimes see landlords try.


     Thanks, Marcus. This sounds more in line with what I have been hearing in podcasts, and I am wondering how some comments are that they have $0 in turnover costs. Question: what is the $2k for re-leasing costs? In other words, why does it cost that much to lease a new tenant? Is it for marketing, paying a PM to re-lease it, or something else?

    Why do you distinguish a difference between a SFR and an apartment for turnover costs? Wouldn't they be similar? You mention an apartment would also lose 1 month of rent (let's just say $1500 for lost rent for easy math), and then $2000 for paint and carpet. What about that re-leasing cost you mentioned for your SF? Wouldn't that apply for an apartment as well? If so, the apartment turnover would be about $5k-5.5k. Am I not seeing something?

    Thanks!

    You have two variables: the property and the tenant. Turnover cost varies greatly with the size and type of property. A single-family home has a lot more to it than a small 1BR apartment. You have a full basement, more bathrooms, more bedrooms, maybe two living spaces, a garage, a yard, gutters, trees, fence, driveway etc. - all things you don't have in a small apartment. That is reflected in all the different answers you are getting. Most PM will charge you one month rent for re-leasing, because it's a lot of work. So there is a "cost" to it, even if you do it yourself.

    1Reply
  • Dean ValadezPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Member since 2023 · 64 posts · 11 votes
    2y

    Thanks, Everyone, for the input! Now it makes sense why there is such a wide range of costs associated with turnovers. I keep reading/hearing that tenant turnover is one of the most expensive costs that landlords have and wanted to see why, and then, how, to minimize those costs. Does anyone pay their tenant to move out early so you have more time to get in to clean/renovate/etc? (That is if you know you have more to do.) Such as, every day they move out early, you pay them $15/day or $10/day or whatever amount it is.

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