Residential Real Estate Agent · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2008 · 432 posts · 63 votes
As first-time landlords in California, when our "nice" tenant moved out, we didn't think to give a pre-move out inspection. We didn't know we were supposed to. On the morning the tenant moved out, the property was left in bad condition. We kept a portion of the deposit and provided an itemized list of repairs we paid for plus the receipts. She cashed the check for the portion of the deposit we returned. Now, 2 months later she wants to sue us for double her deposit plus travel expenses for her to come back the state for the court date because we didn't provide her with a pre-move out inspection allowing her to remedy the damages. (Her ex-husband is an attorney.)
Her cats damaged all the screens, scratched up the carpet which had to be replaced. Her kid put stickers all over the walls and ceiling. She didn't even bother to clean the unit upon leaving it and left quite a bit of personal property behind which we had to hire haulers to remove. Is there any part of the deposit we can keep even though we didn't conduct an inspection prior to her moving out? Or, do we caulk it up to a lesson learned. Please help!! She says she file papers in a few days if we don't return every cent of her deposit.
Is a pre moveout inspection required in CA? Did you do the repairs yourself or did you hire someone?
I don't know CA law, but I think you have good justification, if everything you withheld is documented by receipts for the repairs/cleaning. Let her file and go to court.
All that "you didn't tell me what was wrong" is BS, IMHO. Torn up carpets and screens are not "normal wear and tear".
Is a pre moveout inspection required in CA? Did you do the repairs yourself or did you hire someone?
I don't know CA law, but I think you have good justification, if everything you withheld is documented by receipts for the repairs/cleaning. Let her file and go to court.
All that "you didn't tell me what was wrong" is BS, IMHO. Torn up carpets and screens are not "normal wear and tear".
In California, you are required by law to offer the opportunity for a pre-move-out inspection. If the tenant doesn't make arrangements, you don't have to give one, but you must give the opportunity.
I suggest that you check with your lawyer, but I suspect your best course of action is to return their deposit and learn your lesson.
Im not sure of the laws in California, but, does your lease agreement state anything about the Pre-move out inspection? If it does, then there is the opportunity that was given.
Did you do a move in inspection? Was the findings documented and signed by yourself and the tenant. Having this will really help because this states the condition of the unit when the tenant moved in, proving that the damages were caused by the tenant. Also, if you have one, you could change it to include the move out inspection and use the same form when performing that inspection. You can also offer the move out inspection on that form. Just make sure the tenant has a copy of this form at move in.
Do you conduct semi-annual inspections. This could also be used in your favor. Not only will you get a heads up on any damage, but, it can be documented that the tenant was informed of maintenance or housekeeping issues.
1. In the rental business, tenants THREATEN to sue all the time. Fortunately, they seldom follow through and actually sue (although I'm being sued right now).
2. If you are going to be in this business, you MUST know the law in your jurisdiction forward and backward. Otherwise, you're going to be learning a lot of EXPENSIVE lessons. I would strongly suggest that you join your local REIA and make friends with the successful landlords in your area. I'm not talking about mom and pop operators who have one or two rentals, but the real players who have a lot of rentals. These people will have experienced just about everything that occurs in the business and will even know the personality of your local judge/magistrate. The law is not black and white - it is gray. Knowing how things are interpreted by your local judge/magistrate is HUGE. I'd be willing to bet that someone at your local REIA has had the same situation that you are now experiencing. They can tell you how this will all turn out.
I'm with MikeOH on this. Whenever I got the threatening letters I just ignored them. This is a small claims action which means she'll have to return to the jurisdiction to file (may be able to file by mail) and return again for the hearing.
IMO there's no way a JP will give her the travel expenses.
She isn't saying that her cats didn't damage the unit. She's saying that because we didn't give her a pre-move out inspection now she doesn't have to pay for the damages. We had always had a good relationship and I think she expected we would be "nice" and return the entire deposit. Of course, we thought she would be "nice" and leave the place in good condition.
I think we've decided to give her back the rest of her deposit minus a $200 cleaning fee, a $50 carpet cleaning fee and $96 for hauling her left over crap out. These items were clearly defined in her lease and a pre-move out inspection wouldn't have made a difference because we wouldn't have discovered these until the actual move out.
We have a local apartment landlord association that discovered and are going to join.
I agree that if we are going to keep are few rental properties we have to be prepared for the chance of small problems that can turn into bigger ones.
It sounds like a reasonable exit. Not as good as one might like but still reasonable.
One issue is the fact that you hold a CA real estate license. This means you are held to a higher standards as you are a trained professional in the sector. Hard to argue with a judge that you did not know the laws or regulations. Also looks bad if you collect complaints against your license.
The lady is a jerk and you likely could have pushed harder if you wanted to fight. Not likely to be worth the difference in the deposit amount returned.
I wouldn't suggest that you give her a dime unless she signs a release agreeing that this matter is over. She may take the money and still sue you if she isn't satisfied or she may report you to some no-good government agency that will cause you trouble. You must remember that low life tenants can almost always get a free scumbag legal aid lawyer. Giving her part of the money may not help, but it will certainly make you poorer.
Also, NEVER be friends with a tenant. You are in a business relationship and should act strictly in that manner. You can see that your "nice" tenant is now threatening to sue you. Always try to be polite, but firm!
I joined the local apartment/landlord association and the attorney they recommended to me said I shouldn't pay a dime. He said that I was stupid for not charging her the full amount of her damages and that if she tries to sue us, we can show all the receipts and counter sue for more. (He's a lawyer, he likes to sue people.)
Although he said we should have given her notice of an inspection, she obviously knews about the code so she should have requested one. I think a judge would see that as a mistake on both parties parts. Even if we had told her what the damages were, she would have had expenses to repair them and our charges to her were not even for the full amount we paid. Plus he said he has never see a judge award travel expenses. (Knowing my luck, there's always a first.)
We went to court and our tenant had a friend represent her because she lives out of state. This was small claims court over $680 in security deposit funds but the judge listened to our case for over one hour! (Hard to believe how time consuming small claims court was but I guess that's what makes America's justice system the best in the world).
Unfortunately, even though we didn't keep her entire deposit, which we had plenty of charges to justify, we had charged her for one set of blinds twice so we ended up having to reimburse her for that and pay her court costs. The judge sided with us about the tenant's responsibility to leave it clean and repair or pay for ALL repairs.
It was a good experience that has taught us NEVER assume anything and put everything in writing multiple times even if it seems obvious.
We went to court and our tenant had a friend represent her because she lives out of state. This was small claims court over $680 in security deposit funds but the judge listened to our case for over one hour! (Hard to believe how time consuming small claims court was but I guess that's what makes America's justice system the best in the world).
Unfortunately, even though we didn't keep her entire deposit, which we had plenty of charges to justify, we had charged her for one set of blinds twice so we ended up having to reimburse her for that and pay her court costs. The judge sided with us about the tenant's responsibility to leave it clean and repair or pay for ALL repairs.
It was a good experience that has taught us NEVER assume anything and put everything in writing multiple times even if it seems obvious.
We went to court and our tenant had a friend represent her because she lives out of state. This was small claims court over $680 in security deposit funds but the judge listened to our case for over one hour! (Hard to believe how time consuming small claims court was but I guess that's what makes America's justice system the best in the world).
Unfortunately, even though we didn't keep her entire deposit, which we had plenty of charges to justify, we had charged her for one set of blinds twice so we ended up having to reimburse her for that and pay her court costs. The judge sided with us about the tenant's responsibility to leave it clean and repair or pay for ALL repairs.
It was a good experience that has taught us NEVER assume anything and put everything in writing multiple times even if it seems obvious.
@Shari Posey: I was wondering how the tenant could be represented by a friend? I thought in a Small Claims Court you cannot be represented unless you are under 18?