Rental Property Investor · Algonquin, IL (Chicago suburbs) · Member since 2014 · 155 posts · 76 votes
I need some opinions from the community....
My tenant informed me today the front door was kicked in by her daughter's 19 year old boy friend when she would not allow him into the home. Upon arriving home from work, my tenant called the police and filed charges. A warrant has been put out for his arrest and police are actively pursuing his apprehension.
Is the tenant responsible for the cost associated with the required repairs? The reason for him even being at the property was the result of a relationship with the tenant's daughter; however it was against her will and a criminal act.
Let me know what everyone thinks....I really appreciate your feedback.
Real Estate · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 16 votes
10y
It is going to depend on how your lease is written. Your tenant should be responsible for intentional damage not caused by normal wear and tear. That is also why landlords take security deposits. This is more of a who's liable question. First, your tenant is responsible for the property, so if the lease has the right wording, she would be responsible for repairs. Now, she can request the presiding judge order restitution as part of the judicial process. Either way, at the end of the day, it depends on your lease and what type of landlord you are. Good luck and definitely seek the advise of an attorney.
Contractor · Baldwin City, KS · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 6 votes
10y
Imo it would depend on what kind of tenants they are. Bad tenants I would let them deal with it. If they are good tenants then I am sure they are going through enough. Work with them, and the courts to get him to pay you.
Portland, OR · Member since 2013 · 63 posts · 17 votes
10y
If they've been with you awhile and you want to keep them, then foot the bill. It's just the cost of doing business. Staying in the good graces of any tenant good or bad is an investment and a worthwhile one.
Is there anyway that you can bill the boyfriend? He's the guy at fault, not your tenants.
Real Estate · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 16 votes
10y
It is going to depend on how your lease is written. Your tenant should be responsible for intentional damage not caused by normal wear and tear. That is also why landlords take security deposits. This is more of a who's liable question. First, your tenant is responsible for the property, so if the lease has the right wording, she would be responsible for repairs. Now, she can request the presiding judge order restitution as part of the judicial process. Either way, at the end of the day, it depends on your lease and what type of landlord you are. Good luck and definitely seek the advise of an attorney.
Rental Property Investor · Glendale, CA · Member since 2013 · 685 posts · 334 votes
10y
Brian:
Your lease agreement will dictate what needs to be done.
If no specific language is expressed, you can fix it now, and deduct from their deposit when they vacate. That is, if they ever do, which at that point you'll really reflect on whether they were "good" or "bad" tenants.
General Contractor & Investor · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 12 votes
10y
I would say no. The tenants boyfriend is not responsible for an intruder breaking in to the house. Boyfriend or not she didn't want to allow him in and he broke in. I am not sure about the laws where you live but here it's the responsibly of the landlord to provide basic standards of living such as being able to secure your home. This is more than likely your responsibly and I can't really think of anything on the lease that would change that. You can however ask for compensation from the court for the crime that was committed against your property
General Contractor & Investor · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 12 votes
10y
The tenant can't be responsible for a criminal act of another person. Wether they were in a relationship or not. Nor do I think you can deduct it from a deposit. With that theory of thinking what would happen if the boyfriend drive his car through the house or purposely lot it on fire. Are you going to sue the tenant for picking a psycho ex boyfriend? I am unaware of any legal argument that you can make to make one person responsible for another persons actions outside their control unless it's their children.
Real Estate · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 16 votes
10y
We have to take into consideration that we do not know all of the details. As such, we need to remember because it is a "boyfriend" it is considered a "domestic" incident. We also don't know if he was a visitor or some kind of tenant like a sublease or a gratuitous guest. There are still too many unknowns and as such; the landlord can hold the tenant liable for damages. That's why I highly recommend speaking to an attorney.
Real Estate · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 16 votes
10y
Another thing to consider is that you as the owner have leased your rights to the property to the tennant. The victim of the criminal mischief is the tenant not the landlord. These are the reasons why I recommend consulting an attorney.
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Presupposing the tenant has been a good tenant until now. ...
I agree with @Sean Webb. This was a criminal act of breaking and entering. If a stranger did this while no one was home and stole their television, no reasonable landlord would ever think to charge the tenant for the cost of the door. If an acquaintance kicked in the door and raped the daughter, no reasonable landlord would consider charging the tenant. Just because no more serious crime followed the lesser crime of B&E, I don't think a landlord should charge the tenant for the cost of the repair.
OTOH, I would be very clear with the tenant that if similar acts occur in the future (by that young man or any other) that the landlord reserves the right to charge future repair costs to the tenant.
General Contractor & Investor · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 12 votes
10y
I have to disagree. You may have leased the property out but you do not "lease your responsibilities" again each state law varies but Ohio doesn't determine a boyfriend to be a domestic incident unless they live together. And the bottom line the boyfriend is irrelevant to the conversation. Take the word completely out of the argument. If a random stranger kicked this woman's door in. The landlord would feel he is responsible. The only thing people seem to get hung up on is she knew the intruder. Let's bring insurance in to the situation is well. Renters insurance isn't going to fix it, they are going to refer you back to the landlord. The victim of dominated mischief and burglary is the tenant. However the victim of the criminal damaging is the property owner.
I am all ears for someone to show me a legal precedent that says a tenant is responsible for the damage to the building caused by uninvited guests and criminals.
Where would the line end? If someone shoots her house, spray paints the siding, throws rocks through the window, drives a car through the house. Is it your argument the tenant has to fix it?
Taking all of the legal arguments out of play if my tenant a woman was a victim of violence and burglary I would replace the door regardless of who's fault it is. Seems she has enough to deal with.
Real Estate Investor · atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 456 posts · 237 votes
10y
Really depends on your lease - some of us pass all repairs of any kind to the tenant, some require the tenant to pay a portion...some not at all. Here, regardless, if they are otherwise decent tenants, I would pay to have the door redone and add metal reinforcement to the jamb with a product like Rebar (kickproof.com) and Lowes & Home Depot sell similar products designed to prevent or at least deter kick-ins. We install these on most of our atlanta rentals when we are renovating the houses. With the economy and crime lately, it's just good policy. The jamb can usually be repaired for about $120 to $150. HandyANDY ususally custom cuts the repair pieces out of pressure treated wood..add the metal reinforcing plates and you've got a pretty solid door. The weakness is always in the jambs as they are often pieced and jointed pine. Good luck with it!
Real Estate · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 16 votes
10y
As former Deputy, in the state of Florida, Domestic includes person's involved in a relationship whether or not they lived together. As far as the break-in, the tenant has "exclusive right of use" and because of that, she is the victim. Same as if any other crime had been committed at residence. The landlord would not be the victim unless the residence was vacant and he had not leased out "the rights of usage" to anyone else. This is only FL law so I do not know about any other state. Good Luck.
Real Estate · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 16 votes
10y
FYI, I would fix it because I'd want to protect my investment. I would bill her or take it from her security deposit but I'd fix it. Mainly, to make sure the repairs are done correctly.
If another incident occurred after that, I would begin the eviction process to prevent my investment becoming a financial liability. Best of luck.
Investor · Hillsboro, MO · Member since 2014 · 57 posts · 16 votes
10y
I totally agree with @Sean Webb and @Randy E. also IMO the landlord needs to file a police report so he can be the one getting in front of the judge as well to ask for compensation from the boyfriend. Landlord may want to impress upon the tenant to file for a restraining order, also landlord may be able to get restraining order also from his property. IMO
General Contractor & Investor · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 12 votes
10y
that may be the case in Florida but not in Ohio. Furthermore a lease cannot circumvent state laws. Ohio law requires you to provide fundamental basics to rent a property. Maybe this is not the case in other states but I couldn't rent out a house with no hot water and tell the tenants it's your problem. I guess theoretically I could write that in the lease but the state laws will triumph my lease in those regards. I don't know the law in your area but I find it hard to believe I could simply by buy a house with no heat, plumbing or doors and rent it out and put in the lease it's the tenants probelem. That approach Is really sort of slum lordish in my opinion. Again this is an educated guess but I'm sure your state requires you to provide a basic standard such as; a roof, doors, adequate water, hot water, a heating system etc.
I understand each state law is different but I find it hard to believe I could write in a rental lease that you have exclusive use to a house and if it needs a new roof or driveway it's your problem....maybe a land contract but I can't see that flying in a rental lease. And I'm in one of the biggest rental markets in the country
I totally agree with @Sean Webb and @Randy E. also IMO the landlord needs to file a police report so he can be the one getting in front of the judge as well to ask for compensation from the boyfriend. Landlord may want to impress upon the tenant to file for a restraining order, also landlord may be able to get restraining order also from his property. IMO
I agree. Good point. I'm sure there probably is a restraining order already. And I would if the law allows in your area write an addendum excluding that person from entering the property again and put it as a clause in the lease. Furthermore send a certified letter to party refusing him access to enter the property or you will pursue criminal charges. This is what Ohio law allows and if your state allows the same I would use them to your advantage. Rob brings a good point though you are a victim so I guess you could get a restraining order against him
Real Estate · Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 16 votes
10y
To clarify;
F.S. 83.54(4) - Landlord’s obligation to maintain premises.—The landlord is not responsible to the tenant under this section for conditions created or caused by the negligent or wrongful act or omission of the tenant, a member of the tenant’s family, or other person on the premises with the tenant’s consent. (look at definitions and case law defining "family")
F.S. 83.52(6) - Tenant’s obligation to maintain dwelling unit - (6) Not destroy, deface, damage, impair, or remove any part of the premises or property therein belonging to the landlord nor permit any person to do so.
F.S. 83.54 Enforcement of rights and duties; civil action; criminal offenses.—Any right or duty declared in this part is enforceable by civil action. A right or duty enforced by civil action under this section does not preclude prosecution for a criminal offense related to the lease or leased property.
This is a "word of the law versus spirit of the law" arguement.
You have to remember your investment property is a business. As such, to forgive a one time incident and inherit the cost of repairs is a moral decision, that I myself would make. Beyond one incident, I would protect your investment. I want to thank everyone for the passionate discussions but we need to remember there are civil liabilities in everything we do, not just criminal. We need to do our best to minimize our risk. Good Luck.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
The one thing I would insist is that she had filed a police report and get a copy of it. I think just saying it was him is not enough. In that case I would repair.
Not sure if you could file against the boyfriend for damages but I do know that he can be criminally charged for this.