Tenant not paying rent prior to move out

Tenant not paying rent prior to move out

Conshohocken, PA · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 4 votes
I have a long term tenant in a SFH at $1766/mo that I contacted on November 8 to provide notice they would need to purchase the house or vacate by Feb 1. They were very interested in purchasing, and I gave him my mortgage broker's #, which he did contact. The tenant (male with Father cosigner, has wife and 2 teen kids living there) has good history other than occasional lateness (1 week), but always caught up with fees. They pay rent by depositing to my bank account by the 5th. At the time I contacted them, the Nov rent had been paid. Yesterday I checked the bank account to confirm Dec rent had been paid on time, but it had not, and the Nov rent check had bounced (which my bank never informed me of). I contacted them yesterday to find out what's going on and if they planned to move out or purchase. He told me they can't afford to purchase, they have to use their money for security on their new place, and they'll be out by Jan 1. In his mind, we have their security and last month, which should cover it. I explained what security deposit is for and that we did not collect last month rent at lease signing, and he needs to pay Nov and Dec rent Asap. He is offering to pay $1k this Friday and $1k two weeks later, and "go from there". He has a cosigner that had great income and credit 9 years ago. I told him I look forward to receiving the $1k this Friday and hearing confirmation of their move out date. I think my best option is to play nice, get what money I can through Jan 1, and then assess damages once they're out to decide if the damages are worth a small claims court suit against him and cosigner. If he fails on payments, is there any benefit to eviction notice assuming he follows through on move out by Jan 1? I think if I don't have payment and they're not out by Jan 1 (or scheduled reasonably close to that day), then I have to initiate eviction. Ideas from the landlord community?
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Roy N.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

Yes profit is dependent on tenants paying their rent. 

I have tenants who regularly breach the terms of their lease but they pay the rent.

If you want to run your business by being in and out of court and sending letters and notices to and fro because of your contracts you can but to me that says you are not in control of your business - your contracts are.

Ihe:

Not only do I disagree, but believe you are trying to be inflammatory.

I would counter that if you have tenants who regularly breach the terms of their lease, then they are controlling the agenda of your business, not you.  There is a world of difference between the tenant who comes to you in advance to indicate impending turbulence in their ability to pay their rent on time and the one who simply does not pay and says nothing - one is a "good" tenant with a problem, the other is irresponsible at best or simply a problem coming to fruition.

If you screen well and clearly articulate - up front when the lease is signed - your expectations of the tenant and the course of action that will ensue in the event of a breach, you will spend surprisingly little time sending notices or going to court.  In all the years we've been doing this, we've never had to evict a tenant we've placed {we've evicted a few inherited tenants} and have only been to court twice ... and we have 50+  tenants {and growing}.

Your contracts, and systems (processes & procedures) are just instruments you use to steer your business of providing service to your clients and, while it is your obligation to provide quality and value in your product and services, it is the client's obligation to pay for those products or services as per the agreement.

It is really that simple.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    @Ihe O.

    It's time to take the ad-hominem comments off-line and let the thread return to the topic at hand.

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Brad Stribling:

    I've been at this (landlord) a long time.   I believe in working with people and trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.  Filing eviction is IMHO, not a hostile act.  It's just taking the logical next step which both parties agreed to when they signed the lease.   After the eviction is  filed, I'd try and be as "emotionless" and matter-of-fact as possible in your conversation with the tenants.  The eviction notice is all you really need to show them that you intend to hold them to their agreement.  An eviction notice basically the same communication as a pitcher who is willing to pitch inside.  If that baseball reference is too obscure, I apologize.  But you can look it up on the internet, LOL.

    Threatening to take away the roof over someone's head whether contractually permissible or not is about as hostile you can get. 

    That's why I only do it if I really want you out of my house.

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

    Threatening to take away the roof over someone's head whether contractually permissible or not is about as hostile you can get. 

    That's why I only do it if I really want you out of my house.

    If the situation with a tenant arrives at the point where you file a Notice to Vacate (Pay or Quit, etc) or commence an eviction, the relationship is beyond repair and you want the tenant out.  It's not a threat, nor a hostile act, but a consequential action to which both the tenant and landlord agreed at the beginning of the tenancy.

    We rarely have to serve such notices; it is not a decision we - or likely most landlords - arrive at casually or callously.

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Roy N.:
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

    Threatening to take away the roof over someone's head whether contractually permissible or not is about as hostile you can get. 

    That's why I only do it if I really want you out of my house.

    If the situation with a tenant arrives at the point where you file a Notice to Vacate (Pay or Quit, etc) or commence an eviction, the relationship is beyond repair and you want the tenant out.  It's not a threat, nor a hostile act, but a consequential action to which both the tenant and landlord agreed at the beginning of the tenancy.

    We rarely have to serve such notices; it is not a decision we - or likely most landlords - arrive at casually or callously.

    Pay up or else. That's in black and white as  blatant a threat as you can get. 

    Initiating a process that could lead to a family being forcibly removed from what they call their home is about as hostile as you can get. 

    Now a landlord can parse this as contractual small print and formalities but most tenants will not see it that way because the potential consequences for them are as serious as you can get.

    That's why Sherriff's have to be involved to keep the peace. 

    That's why  some Sherrif's dept demand that you not  pre-warn the tenant of the eviction date for the sherriff's safety.

    The whole point of these contractual clauses is to cater for situations where the conduct of a party is such that such hostility and threats have become warranted. 

    So  I don't use tools like Notice to Vacate or Pay or Quit simply because a person is late. The outcome they precipitate is not warranted by the contractual breach that has occurred. It's too blunt of an instrument and I  want to keep a tenant despite the breach if I am satisfied of their overarching intent and ability to fulfil their rental obligations. 

  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
    Originally posted by @Roy N.:
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

    Threatening to take away the roof over someone's head whether contractually permissible or not is about as hostile you can get. 

    That's why I only do it if I really want you out of my house.

    If the situation with a tenant arrives at the point where you file a Notice to Vacate (Pay or Quit, etc) or commence an eviction, the relationship is beyond repair and you want the tenant out.  It's not a threat, nor a hostile act, but a consequential action to which both the tenant and landlord agreed at the beginning of the tenancy.

    We rarely have to serve such notices; it is not a decision we - or likely most landlords - arrive at casually or callously.

    Pay up or else. That's in black and white as  blatant a threat as you can get. 

    Initiating a process that could lead to a family being forcibly removed from what they call their home is about as hostile as you can get. 

    Now a landlord can parse this as contractual small print and formalities but most tenants will not see it that way because the potential consequences for them are as serious as you can get.

    That's why Sherriff's have to be involved to keep the peace. 

    That's why  some Sherrif's dept demand that you not  pre-warn the tenant of the eviction date for the sherriff's safety.

    The whole point of these contractual clauses is to cater for situations where the conduct of a party is such that such hostility and threats have become warranted. 

    So  I don't use tools like Notice to Vacate or Pay or Quit simply because a person is late. The outcome they precipitate is not warranted by the contractual breach that has occurred. It's too blunt of an instrument and I  want to keep a tenant despite the breach if I am satisfied of their overarching intent and ability to fulfil their rental obligations. 

    Probably not as hostile as these responses to those who do not share your views.

    Once again, a Notice to Vacate is not a threat, it is a {next to} last resort to return possession of a unit to the landlord when the tenant has failed to pay rent and is no longer entitled to use of the premises.   Your choice to not avail yourself of these instruments is yours.  Conversely, those who choose to use such instruments do so on their own choice (within the prescription of the law).  Not using such instruments may be the correct manner of conduct for you, but it does not automatically follow it is the correct or better choice for everyone.

    Perhaps the reasoning of your position would be more clearly conveyed and find better reception if more ink were used in reasoned debate than as a cudgel. 

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Roy N.:
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
    Originally posted by @Roy N.:
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

    Threatening to take away the roof over someone's head whether contractually permissible or not is about as hostile you can get. 

    That's why I only do it if I really want you out of my house.

    If the situation with a tenant arrives at the point where you file a Notice to Vacate (Pay or Quit, etc) or commence an eviction, the relationship is beyond repair and you want the tenant out.  It's not a threat, nor a hostile act, but a consequential action to which both the tenant and landlord agreed at the beginning of the tenancy.

    We rarely have to serve such notices; it is not a decision we - or likely most landlords - arrive at casually or callously.

    Pay up or else. That's in black and white as  blatant a threat as you can get. 

    Initiating a process that could lead to a family being forcibly removed from what they call their home is about as hostile as you can get. 

    Now a landlord can parse this as contractual small print and formalities but most tenants will not see it that way because the potential consequences for them are as serious as you can get.

    That's why Sherriff's have to be involved to keep the peace. 

    That's why  some Sherrif's dept demand that you not  pre-warn the tenant of the eviction date for the sherriff's safety.

    The whole point of these contractual clauses is to cater for situations where the conduct of a party is such that such hostility and threats have become warranted. 

    So  I don't use tools like Notice to Vacate or Pay or Quit simply because a person is late. The outcome they precipitate is not warranted by the contractual breach that has occurred. It's too blunt of an instrument and I  want to keep a tenant despite the breach if I am satisfied of their overarching intent and ability to fulfil their rental obligations. 

    Probably not as hostile as these responses to those who do not share your views.

    Once again, a Notice to Vacate is not a threat, it is a {next to} last resort to return possession of a unit to the landlord when the tenant has failed to pay rent and is no longer entitled to use of the premises.   Your choice to not avail yourself of these instruments is yours.  Conversely, those who choose to use such instruments do so on their own choice (within the prescription of the law).  Not using such instruments may be the correct manner of conduct for you, but it does not automatically follow it is the correct or better choice for everyone.

    Perhaps the reasoning of your position would be more clearly conveyed and find better reception if more ink were used in reasoned debate than as a cudgel. 

    As the saying goes - you are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.

    I've said why I don't use these tools. I don't care what you do, but if you make a post saying that a letter requesting payment or possession of the home will not be perceived as a threat by a tenant you are going to be challenged and you should learn how to deal with that.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 658 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Roy N.:
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

    Threatening to take away the roof over someone's head whether contractually permissible or not is about as hostile you can get. 

    We rarely have to serve such notices; it is not a decision we - or likely most landlords - arrive at casually or callously.

    Guys, you're on the same page but arguing like hell....lol

    There are ways to conduct this business and never get to file an eviction: I do know a landlord with more than 50 properties and for 9 years he never filed any evictions. He builds great relationships with his tenants, make amiable arrangements when they can't pay rent any more, and rent it again. He practically has no vacancies, 100% occupancy and most of his tenants are very long term (5+ years).

    Real estate is relationship business and it's not easy to build it this way. I'm not that easy on Tenants and sometimes do give them the 3 day notice. Well, my results were not as good as his - people move out right after the notice, I do keep their security deposit but rE renting the place takes time and my money :(

    Long term tenant become quite like family - you don't want to hurt people who paid off your house? It was your steady income for 9 years, why not just try to be friendly in the end? 

    OP mentioned that they are going to pay few sums, maybe it's better to wait until it's done and then discuss the issue? 

    The final goal - to get as less damage as possible. You can get much better results being nice to people rather than threatening them to evict when they're ready to move out anyway. If they don't pay last two months but vacate property with no damage - then you can take them to the court for the monies owed. But the house will be in your possession and ready to be rented

    IF they don't move out and don't pay as agreed, then you'll have to tell them about eviction notice - as a regret you have to do it :(

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Irina Belkofer:
    Originally posted by @Roy N.:
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:

    Threatening to take away the roof over someone's head whether contractually permissible or not is about as hostile you can get. 

    We rarely have to serve such notices; it is not a decision we - or likely most landlords - arrive at casually or callously.

    Guys, you're on the same page but arguing like hell....lol

    There are ways to conduct this business and never get to file an eviction: I do know a landlord with more than 50 properties and for 9 years he never filed any evictions. He builds great relationships with his tenants, make amiable arrangements when they can't pay rent any more, and rent it again. He practically has no vacancies, 100% occupancy and most of his tenants are very long term (5+ years).

    Real estate is relationship business and it's not easy to build it this way. I'm not that easy on Tenants and sometimes do give them the 3 day notice. Well, my results were not as good as his - people move out right after the notice, I do keep their security deposit but rE renting the place takes time and my money :(

    Long term tenant become quite like family - you don't want to hurt people who paid off your house? It was your steady income for 9 years, why not just try to be friendly in the end? 

    OP mentioned that they are going to pay few sums, maybe it's better to wait until it's done and then discuss the issue? 

    The final goal - to get as less damage as possible. You can get much better results being nice to people rather than threatening them to evict when they're ready to move out anyway. If they don't pay last two months but vacate property with no damage - then you can take them to the court for the monies owed. But the house will be in your possession and ready to be rented

    IF they don't move out and don't pay as agreed, then you'll have to tell them about eviction notice - as a regret you have to do it :(

    Nailed it. 

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