Renters damaged hardwood floors: What to do?

38 Replies

I have an SFR rental (in California) that is sustaining damage from the current renters and I am interested in feedback as to how to proceed with one of the issues.

The house had beautiful maple hardwood floors when it was leased to the renters that currently occupy the house. The renters have a 60 pound dog that has done wonderful job of laying deep scratches all over the flooring. The floors had minimal scratches prior to these renters moving in. I've been told hardwood floors can be sanded and stained twice or so during their lifetimes. The damage from to scratches to the floors is extensive and I can prove the scratches weren't there before as I took meticulous pictures prior to renting out the house to these renters.

My options:

1. Not charge the renters at all and chalk it up to this is what happens when you rent out a house with real hardwood floors to renters with a dog

2. Charge the renters to have the floors sanded and use up one of the two times the floors can be sanded (knowing there is not too much I can do to prevent this from happening the next time I have renters - even if they don't have dogs)

3. Charge to have the floors sanded and instead use the money to replace the wood with tile (is this even legal in CA or anywhere else?)

4. ????

The damage is done , make your decision when they move out .  Next time " No pets"

Option #1. Hard wood floors and tenants do not make a good combination.

 You should have known the wood floors would be damaged by tenants and severely damaged by a large dog. Price of doing business.

I actually prefer hardwoods for rentals because they can be sanded and refinished. I've sanded and refinished floors several times, and these are 100+ year old floors. Whomever told you that you can only do it once or twice was probably referring to an engineered hardwood product (they have a thin layer of real wood over a thicker layer of particle board).

If the floors are real hardwood all the way through then you can sand and refinish them many many times.

If you're good about it, you can usually get away with a light screen/buff and re-coat instead of a full deep sanding. In the case that you describe you will probably need to sand all the way down to the wood.

Originally posted by @Thomas S. :

Option #1. Hard wood floors and tenants do not make a good combination.

 You should have known the wood floors would be damaged by tenants and severely damaged by a large dog. Price of doing business.

 I hear you.  I had a tenant break the lease in December and I was stressing about finding another tenant.  I didnt have many options and took on a renter with a large dog.  Just how much easier is a 20 pound dog on wood floors than a 60 pound dog, anyways?

Probably a lot easier. But I agree with the other poster you can sand/buff and refinish the floors several times (I think it’s up to 8 for real hardwoods). Leave the scratches and cover them with throw rugs and only do the refinishing when you sell. My own hardwoods are scratched up from my 40 lb dog. It’s inevitable depending on the breed and now trimmed their nails are. All my rentals have dog nail scratches in the hardwoods. I would only worry if you have a dog that scratches at the floor near a door to go out and really causes deep deep damage.

I have wood floors in all of my rentals. I prefer them. You will have to re-sand and redo them much less often than you will have to replace stained carpet. They are easier to clean as well. I would charge the tenants even if it means taking their entire deposit.

I actually have a special part of my lease that states I will keep their entire deposit if they damage the hardwood floors as this cost is more than their deposit to have the floors redone. I also require they use furniture pads on all furniture-which I provide to them at the beginning of the lease so they have no excuse not to. I have every tenant read this part of the lease and initial next to it. I also have photos of each smaller scratch which I didn't charge for so I know what was there before-as a landlord I've accepted I'll probably have to touch them up (not fully redo) every 7 years or so.

Also, Max is correct. You can do it more than twice. I've lived in two of my rentals before I rented them while we were fixing them up. We have a 70 pound dog and our floors did not get damaged from him. I've had 3 dogs in one of my rentals with hard wood floors and they did not get damaged. The back yard and back screen door weren't so lucky with those dogs. Sounds like this is no one's fault but your tenants as their dog had to of been running around acting wild or maybe they did not maintain his nails? Either way, sorry to hear your floors were damaged. They sound beautiful.

Hope this helps!

An interesting idea is to leave the wood floors as-is and install wood laminate (floating) floor over it. The laminate floor can look really nice and take a beating from tenants.

When you finally decide to sell the house, tear out the laminate, refinish the hardwood, and you’ll get extra $$ for the beautiful wood.

Originally posted by @Aaron M. :

I have an SFR rental (in California) that is sustaining damage from the current renters and I am interested in feedback as to how to proceed with one of the issues.

The house had beautiful maple hardwood floors when it was leased to the renters that currently occupy the house. The renters have a 60 pound dog that has done wonderful job of laying deep scratches all over the flooring. The floors had minimal scratches prior to these renters moving in. I've been told hardwood floors can be sanded and stained twice or so during their lifetimes. The damage from to scratches to the floors is extensive and I can prove the scratches weren't there before as I took meticulous pictures prior to renting out the house to these renters.

My options:

1. Not charge the renters at all and chalk it up to this is what happens when you rent out a house with real hardwood floors to renters with a dog

2. Charge the renters to have the floors sanded and use up one of the two times the floors can be sanded (knowing there is not too much I can do to prevent this from happening the next time I have renters - even if they don't have dogs)

3. Charge to have the floors sanded and instead use the money to replace the wood with tile (is this even legal in CA or anywhere else?)

4. ????

 I would charge for the repairs needed to bring the rental to original condition.  Next time.... tile. I do tile downstairs on all my rentals and carpet on stairs and upstairs. Carpet is relatively quick and cheap to replace. I charge 1.5x monthly rent as a deposit and $500 per pet (regardless of size) additional security deposit. I don’t call it non refundable pet deposit as in California all deposits are refundable. So I’m holding about $35/4000 dollars in deposit money. If they damage beyond that I look at the difference and make a decision as to a court case or let it go. $100 ? Let it go. A additional 900 in damage I’ll go after it. 

Personally? I would get quotes to see the cost of fixing the damage. Charge the repair costs against the deposit. Refund the remainder if any. Send a itemized list of charges and the refund within 21 days of their vacating the premises otherwise they can sue you for all their deposit for violating the 21 day rule. 

I would use Old English to blend in the scratches and rerent it.  If the new tenant causes additional damage you can charge for  that damage also. As long as the new tenant accepts the property as is you do not need to do anything. You can charge fir any additional damage the new tenant may do. You cannot charge fir existing damage as you were already compensated for it.

If this is going to be a rental for you I would look into replacing or covering the  hardwood flooring. And truthfully you don’t put hardwood flooring in a rental. It’s wasted on most renters and it costs money to upkeep. Your personal house? Sure go nuts. Rentals? No way

Originally posted by @Rob D. :
Originally posted by @Aaron Mandor:

I have an SFR rental (in California) that is sustaining damage from the current renters and I am interested in feedback as to how to proceed with one of the issues.

The house had beautiful maple hardwood floors when it was leased to the renters that currently occupy the house. The renters have a 60 pound dog that has done wonderful job of laying deep scratches all over the flooring. The floors had minimal scratches prior to these renters moving in. I've been told hardwood floors can be sanded and stained twice or so during their lifetimes. The damage from to scratches to the floors is extensive and I can prove the scratches weren't there before as I took meticulous pictures prior to renting out the house to these renters.

My options:

1. Not charge the renters at all and chalk it up to this is what happens when you rent out a house with real hardwood floors to renters with a dog

2. Charge the renters to have the floors sanded and use up one of the two times the floors can be sanded (knowing there is not too much I can do to prevent this from happening the next time I have renters - even if they don't have dogs)

3. Charge to have the floors sanded and instead use the money to replace the wood with tile (is this even legal in CA or anywhere else?)

4. ????

 I would charge for the repairs needed to bring the rental to original condition.  Next time.... tile. I do tile downstairs on all my rentals and carpet on stairs and upstairs. Carpet is relatively quick and cheap to replace. I charge 1.5x monthly rent as a deposit and $500 per pet (regardless of size) additional security deposit. I don’t call it non refundable pet deposit as in California all deposits are refundable. So I’m holding about $35/4000 dollars in deposit money. If they damage beyond that I look at the difference and make a decision as to a court case or let it go. $100 ? Let it go. A additional 900 in damage I’ll go after it. 

Personally? I would get quotes to see the cost of fixing the damage. Charge the repair costs against the deposit. Refund the remainder if any. Send a itemized list of charges and the refund within 21 days of their vacating the premises otherwise they can sue you for all their deposit for violating the 21 day rule. 

I would use Old English to blend in the scratches and rerent it.  If the new tenant causes additional damage you can charge for  that damage also. As long as the new tenant accepts the property as is you do not need to do anything. You can charge fir any additional damage the new tenant may do. You cannot charge fir existing damage as you were already compensated for it.

 Are you saying to send a bill for what it would cost to repair the itemized damage and not repair it and use Old English instead?  I am open to that but is that legal?  Meaning, if they pay for repair do you then HAVE TO follow through on the repair or can you instead pocket the money?  I would love to know the answer to that.

No, I do not think that's what Rob was saying. I think he was giving you two options.

Did you get a pet deposit when they moved in? That and the security deposit would go towards the repairs. If there's still a balance after that, they would/should pay you for that. Be sure to get all repairs done soon within the legal amount of time your area gives for returning deposits/sending invoices.

Maple is not good with big dogs. It will get scratched up. A solid hardwood floor can be sanded more than twice.  If you are going to allow dogs I wouldn’t sand it if it’s not worn through just have it cleaned and a high quality 2k waterbased finish applied (such as Loba Supra). Do this  inbetween tentants or at least every 5 years. 

@Aaron M. my neighbor has a 70 pound dog that stopped in my house to visit for 5 minutes. My entry way has ceramic tile and the dog scratched it. At least hard wood floors can be sanded. It is much harder to change out one tile. 

I would charge the customer for refinishing. In the future I would put a weight limit on dogs of 20 pounds to greatly reduce any likelihood of damage. I have had 16 pound dogs on hard wood for years and my kitchen chairs leave bigger scratches than they do.

Landlords should never profit from security deposit deductions. Deductions should be used to fix damage and you should have receipts. 

We have a 90 lb dog and she did not damage our oak floors in our old house.  We lived there for 6 years.  The poly was scratched in high traffic areas, but none of the damage went down to the actual wood.  We sanded and poly-d (use a good commercial grade poly to be more forgiving of wear and tear) before we moved out and turned it into a rental.  The pine floors we had upstairs - those had some dents in them from the large dog, but pine is much softer than oak.

I sure hope you’re getting paid well for that pet! I charge minimum $100 monthly for dogs and $50 for cats.

Since I didn’t see it listed previously, I may approach this as getting a quote either now or at move out for floor repair (sanding / refinish can be done until the nails show... for legit hardwood that is several times generally), charge them for that cost and then decide if you complete that restoration now, or perhaps after the next tenant who may also have a critter?

Was this a "service animal"?

Originally posted by @Aaron M. :
Originally posted by @Rob D.:
Originally posted by @Aaron Mandor:

I have an SFR rental (in California) that is sustaining damage from the current renters and I am interested in feedback as to how to proceed with one of the issues.

The house had beautiful maple hardwood floors when it was leased to the renters that currently occupy the house. The renters have a 60 pound dog that has done wonderful job of laying deep scratches all over the flooring. The floors had minimal scratches prior to these renters moving in. I've been told hardwood floors can be sanded and stained twice or so during their lifetimes. The damage from to scratches to the floors is extensive and I can prove the scratches weren't there before as I took meticulous pictures prior to renting out the house to these renters.

My options:

1. Not charge the renters at all and chalk it up to this is what happens when you rent out a house with real hardwood floors to renters with a dog

2. Charge the renters to have the floors sanded and use up one of the two times the floors can be sanded (knowing there is not too much I can do to prevent this from happening the next time I have renters - even if they don't have dogs)

3. Charge to have the floors sanded and instead use the money to replace the wood with tile (is this even legal in CA or anywhere else?)

4. ????

I would charge for the repairs needed to bring the rental to original condition. Next time.... tile. I do tile downstairs on all my rentals and carpet on stairs and upstairs. Carpet is relatively quick and cheap to replace. I charge 1.5x monthly rent as a deposit and $500 per pet (regardless of size) additional security deposit. I don’t call it non refundable pet deposit as in California all deposits are refundable. So I’m holding about $35/4000 dollars in deposit money. If they damage beyond that I look at the difference and make a decision as to a court case or let it go. $100 ? Let it go. A additional 900 in damage I’ll go after it.

Personally? I would get quotes to see the cost of fixing the damage. Charge the repair costs against the deposit. Refund the remainder if any. Send a itemized list of charges and the refund within 21 days of their vacating the premises otherwise they can sue you for all their deposit for violating the 21 day rule.

I would use Old English to blend in the scratches and rerent it. If the new tenant causes additional damage you can charge for that damage also. As long as the new tenant accepts the property as is you do not need to do anything. You can charge fir any additional damage the new tenant may do. You cannot charge fir existing damage as you were already compensated for it.

Are you saying to send a bill for what it would cost to repair the itemized damage and not repair it and use Old English instead? I am open to that but is that legal? Meaning, if they pay for repair do you then HAVE TO follow through on the repair or can you instead pocket the money? I would love to know the answer to that.

Ok

I’ll give you a true example. One of my rentals had brand new carpet installed. Tenant moved in. A year later he bought a house and moved out. The carpet in my rental was cleaned. There were spots from kids markets and some damage as the tenant had a cat and the cat used a section of the stair carpet as a scratch pad. No urine or pet smells. He I’d not attempt to clean the carpet.

I tried cleaning the carpet and while it cleaned it there were sections with some ground in dirt that is slightly noticeable an. I called a carpet guy out to give me a quote on replacing the damaged carpet. The damages added up to 900 bucks. So I charged for the cleaning of the carpet as that was my first attempt to mitigate damages. Then I charged for the actual damage that could not be fixed by cleaning. Tenant was charged about 1200 bucks. The rest was returned along with a itemized list of all charges

I not legally required to replace the carpet even if it was damaged (unless it’s a safety issue say a big tear where people can get tripped up which is something I would do as it’s a safety hazard). The tenant is charged for the damages he made. The new tenant accepts the property as is. The only thing I can’t do is charge the new tenant for the existing damage to the carpet. But if the new tenant does additional damage to the carpet I can charge for that new additional damage.  But if that tenant stays for say 9 years I cannot charge for full replacement as the carpet has 0 years of its life left. If they were there for less t8ne and say they damaged the carpet t9 the point of t needed to be replaced I would be allowed to charge the leftover life of the carpet in a percentage. So the original tenant used op say 10% of the life. Tenant two used up another 60%. Tenant three moved in damages the carpet a year later to the point it needs replacing I can only charge back 20% of the original cost of the carpet to  tenant 3. Granted I would just replace the carpet and would have no back charges to tenant. After 7-8 years I would replace it regardless.. Unless say the pet they have damaged the subfloor then that’s a legitimate chargeable damage  

Originally  posted by @Joe Splitrock :

@Aaron Mandor my neighbor has a 70 pound dog that stopped in my house to visit for 5 minutes. My entry way has ceramic tile and the dog scratched it. At least hard wood floors can be sanded. It is much harder to change out one tile. 

I would charge the customer for refinishing. In the future I would put a weight limit on dogs of 20 pounds to greatly reduce any likelihood of damage. I have had 16 pound dogs on hard wood for years and my kitchen chairs leave bigger scratches than they do.

Landlords should never profit from security deposit deductions. Deductions should be used to fix damage and you should have receipts. 

 Op is not profiting from the deductions. He is simply charging for damages caused by a tenants property.  Like I stated previously, he cannot charge for the same damage twice. THAT would be profiteering. 

If the damage was to a wall or a appliance then yes the money should be used for the repair. But say the old tenant punched a hole in a wall you charge for damages. But if the new tenant says I’ll take it as is that’s fine. You can rent it with the hole in the wall. You just can’t charge the new tenant for the existing damage. 

A scratched up floor isn’t the end of the world and most tenants will accept it. You can simply put a rejuvenating coat of oil.  It doesn’t fix the damage caused. It simply gives the floor a uniform look. OP and new tenant just needs to document any existing damage so when the new tenant leaves they are both on the same page.  Granted if you have nice rentals (which I do) I would not allow holes in walls. 

In fact doing charges this way is cheaper fir the tenant. If I was to replace the carpet in my rental it would run 2500 bucks as finding a perfect match is impossible. . There was be a additional $250 for sundry other damages. So the tenant would of gotten about 750 back from his deposit. This way he got about 1900 back. So I’m not exactly profiteering from the deposit.

Here is a pic of one of my rentals kitchens before you go on a tangent. They all pretty much look like this. I’ve been a LL for over 23 years in So Cal.

How was this approached during the final walk through/check out w/ tenant? Was something implied by you or the tenant as far as the condition of the floors and if it was acceptable or not?

If it wasn't brought up and a reasonable amount of time has passed before now, it's going to be difficult to get them to accept charges. You've increased your chances of them pushing back and or taking action against you.... if that's worth your time/risk only you can decide. 

If it was brought up that this is unacceptable and a remedy needs to be applied maybe approach them to see what they say. This will at least get the conversation started and you can go from there... and with some luck you might just reach an agreement and save both of you some time fighting this.

Originally posted by @Matt K. :

How was this approached during the final walk through/check out w/ tenant? Was something implied by you or the tenant as far as the condition of the floors and if it was acceptable or not?

If it wasn't brought up and a reasonable amount of time has passed before now, it's going to be difficult to get them to accept charges. You've increased your chances of them pushing back and or taking action against you.... if that's worth your time/risk only you can decide. 

If it was brought up that this is unacceptable and a remedy needs to be applied maybe approach them to see what they say. This will at least get the conversation started and you can go from there... and with some luck you might just reach an agreement and save both of you some time fighting this.

I’m assuming OP did a pre final walk with the tenant and told tenant what he expected repaired. All I do is inform the tenant they are allowed a pre final walk.  Usually two weeks before the last day. Amazingly most tenants refuse to do it. I have no idea why. 

You can have a final walk on your own after tenant removes all their personal property as sometimes damage is hidden under tables or behind furniture. Sometimes damage isn’t apparent until after everything is gone. I found a huge stain on a carpet that wasn’t visible until the tenant moved the bed out.

One of the first things I do once everything is out,  is turn on the heater close everything up and go somewhere to have lunch. If the tenant smoked or had pets in the house it’s going to be very apparent when I open that door a few hours later. 

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock :

@Aaron M. my neighbor has a 70 pound dog that stopped in my house to visit for 5 minutes. My entry way has ceramic tile and the dog scratched it. At least hard wood floors can be sanded. It is much harder to change out one tile. 

I would charge the customer for refinishing. In the future I would put a weight limit on dogs of 20 pounds to greatly reduce any likelihood of damage. I have had 16 pound dogs on hard wood for years and my kitchen chairs leave bigger scratches than they do.

Landlords should never profit from security deposit deductions. Deductions should be used to fix damage and you should have receipts. 

I would think damage to tile would be much easier to deal with assuming you have extra.  If you have extra, break out the old tile and in with the new.  No need to pull up the whole floor or deal with the remainder of the floor like you might have to do with other flooring types.  I put tile in on a new rental property just for this purpose.  

Originally posted by @Rob D. :
Originally posted by @Matt K.:

How was this approached during the final walk through/check out w/ tenant? Was something implied by you or the tenant as far as the condition of the floors and if it was acceptable or not?

If it wasn't brought up and a reasonable amount of time has passed before now, it's going to be difficult to get them to accept charges. You've increased your chances of them pushing back and or taking action against you.... if that's worth your time/risk only you can decide. 

If it was brought up that this is unacceptable and a remedy needs to be applied maybe approach them to see what they say. This will at least get the conversation started and you can go from there... and with some luck you might just reach an agreement and save both of you some time fighting this.

I’m assuming OP did a pre final walk with the tenant and told tenant what he expected repaired. All I do is inform the tenant they are allowed a pre final walk.  Usually two weeks before the last day. Amazingly most tenants refuse to do it. I have no idea why. 

You can have a final walk on your own after tenant removes all their personal property as sometimes damage is hidden under tables or behind furniture. Sometimes damage isn’t apparent until after everything is gone. I found a huge stain on a carpet that wasn’t visible until the tenant moved the bed out.

One of the first things I do once everything is out,  is turn on the heater close everything up and go somewhere to have lunch. If the tenant smoked or had pets in the house it’s going to be very apparent when I open that door a few hours later. 

 You're probably a LOT more experienced then OP..... simply judging based on the fact of his post and the questions asked. 

We real hard wood just don’t take any pets.

@Rob D. I think California law disagrees with your method. In your example of a hole in the wall, if you charge to repair the hole, you are required by law to provide a receipt. You can provide an estimate if the work can't be completed in time, but you need to follow up with a receipt. They leave no option to deduct and not repair. 

As far as your carpet example, you can't charge full cost to replace carpet. You need to prorate and charge only for the remaining useful life. For example if the carpet is 5 years old and useful life is 10 years, the maximum you can charge the tenant is 50% to cover the remaining life. 

That is why charging for resurfacing floors is probably preferable over replacing the floor. The resurfacing would be seen as a repair versus replacement. If you replace the floor, you can only bill a portion.

I understand you have been doing it 23 years and probably just never had someone legally challenge you. 

From my perspective it is lowest risk to just follow the law. Here is a CA state landlord handbook that details how to handle security deposits. 

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/se...

Originally posted by @James W. :
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Aaron M. my neighbor has a 70 pound dog that stopped in my house to visit for 5 minutes. My entry way has ceramic tile and the dog scratched it. At least hard wood floors can be sanded. It is much harder to change out one tile. 

I would charge the customer for refinishing. In the future I would put a weight limit on dogs of 20 pounds to greatly reduce any likelihood of damage. I have had 16 pound dogs on hard wood for years and my kitchen chairs leave bigger scratches than they do.

Landlords should never profit from security deposit deductions. Deductions should be used to fix damage and you should have receipts. 

I would think damage to tile would be much easier to deal with assuming you have extra.  If you have extra, break out the old tile and in with the new.  No need to pull up the whole floor or deal with the remainder of the floor like you might have to do with other flooring types.  I put tile in on a new rental property just for this purpose.  

Good point, if it is only a couple tiles and you have spares. If the dog scratched half the kitchen, that could be a major problem. Big dogs can wreck any flooring is my point, so limiting big dogs is a safer policy.

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock :

@Rob D. I think California law disagrees with your method. In your example of a hole in the wall, if you charge to repair the hole, you are required by law to provide a receipt. You can provide an estimate if the work can't be completed in time, but you need to follow up with a receipt. They leave no option to deduct and not repair. 

As far as your carpet example, you can't charge full cost to replace carpet. You need to prorate and charge only for the remaining useful life. For example if the carpet is 5 years old and useful life is 10 years, the maximum you can charge the tenant is 50% to cover the remaining life. 

That is why charging for resurfacing floors is probably preferable over replacing the floor. The resurfacing would be seen as a repair versus replacement. If you replace the floor, you can only bill a portion.

I understand you have been doing it 23 years and probably just never had someone legally challenge you. 

From my perspective it is lowest risk to just follow the law. Here is a CA state landlord handbook that details how to handle security deposits. 

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/se...

If a repair cannot be made, or receipts are not available within the 21-day period, the owner or manager may deduct only a good faith estimate of the deduction amounts and must provide an estimated accounting to the resident within the 21-day period. I got five  estimates. I charged the average of the 5.  Not one carpet company was less than 5 weeks out.  It took me three weeks to get a painter to come look at the repainting. 

The new tenant accepted the property with the carpet stain. The damage was  documented in the walk through. 

In 23/24 years of doing this I withheld exactly portions of two deposits. Everyone else got their full deposit back. I only charge in the most extreme cases and brand new carpet being completely screwed up months isn’t move in was extreme. My other charge was a tenant who decided it would be a good idea to paint the interior of a property a pea green and eggplant purple. And expected me to eat the costs of repainting because after two years I can’t charge to repa8bt. They were partially right. I can’t cgarge to repaint. But I can charge for damage and unauthorized modifications. 

If a new tenant agrees to accept the property as is you can rerent it without doing the repairs. You just can’t charge the new tenant for existing damage. 

Someone mentioned scratched tiles. Truthfully that’s one of the easiest repairs. That’s part of the reasonss I’m slowly switching to tile in all my rentals at least in the downstairs/1st floor  section.  Carpet is still my go to just because it’s the cheapest  and usually fastest turn around. If I went to a wood it would be a laminate flooring. I would just make sure I bought enough to have extra 

Updated 6 months ago

Wanted to add that I give complete accounting and receipts along with the refund within the 21 days. In some rare cases I cannot give a receipt so a quoted receipt is given. I don’t overcharge for repairs and in fact overlook a lot of stuff that’s usually chargeable. I have great tenants 95% of the time and I’m not desperate to get any breathing body in my rentals. I decline about 90% of all applicants. Usually due to income or credit issues.

Create Lasting Wealth Through Real Estate

Join the millions of people achieving financial freedom through the power of real estate investing

Start here