San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
Can't decide if this is a good business decision or a petty decision.
Tenants provided 17 day notice to vacate
Tenants were advised that they are in violation of the lease by not providing 30 days notice.
Tenants come back with sob story about how short notice is due to upcoming deployment (they are moving across town, wife is staying here during deployment, no military documentation provided)
Move out date is accepted; if they want out that bad I don't want to force them to stay for fear of damages
By CA law we can withhold 13 days of rent from their deposit due to insufficient notice to vacate. From the CA court website:
"If you pay rent once a month, you have to give your landlord 30 days’ notice in writing. If you do not, the landlord can charge you for the unpaid rent even after you move out. Unless a new tenant pays the rent, you will have to pay for those 30 days. If you pay rent every week, you have to give 7 days’ notice."
So my question is, would you withhold the 13 days rent?
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
8y
The longer a tenant has been a good tenant the more forgiveness they have earned.
However in no case would I give them no penalty for breaking lease early. if they have been a good tenant for 5 plus years and leave the place with little effort to flip to the next tenant I would probably charge $50 early termination. If they have been there less than 2 years or the place is not handed over in very good condition I would keep the 13 days of rent.
In both cases they need to know providing less than 30 days notice is not acceptable
San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
8y
@Dominic R. Even under SCRA you are required to give 30 days notice. Plus, they aren't moving to another town or leaving the area. They moved 5 miles away and the wife is staying in town during the deployment.
Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
I would be very careful with this. They could simply stay there and not pay the rent. Then when you try to evict them simply ask for a stay in the eviction case. They will be granted a 90 day stay.
I would simply try to get the place rented. Of course, here things rent in a matter of hours not weeks.
San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
8y
@Account Closed They already left. We have new renters moving in next week. This is strictly a deposit return issue. Sounds like you would just let it go. Good to know! Perhaps it is petty?
However, what good is a lease if people aren't held to the provisions?
Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes
8y
I know when I served in the Army about 8 years ago, if you got deployment orders it was VERY easy and VERY common to get a letter saying this so that you could break leases. I would say, no letter, no breaking without penalty. Soldiers should know better than to skate the system. Tell them if they have a problem with this you'd be happy to put a call into his or her Company Commander.
San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
8y
@Anthony R. We had a tenant who had to do just that. He provided the documentation and a 30 day notice (as required by SCRA).
In this tenants case I really this they just wanted to get the move done before the husbands deployment and didn't/don't care about their 30 day notice obligation.
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
8y
The longer a tenant has been a good tenant the more forgiveness they have earned.
However in no case would I give them no penalty for breaking lease early. if they have been a good tenant for 5 plus years and leave the place with little effort to flip to the next tenant I would probably charge $50 early termination. If they have been there less than 2 years or the place is not handed over in very good condition I would keep the 13 days of rent.
In both cases they need to know providing less than 30 days notice is not acceptable
San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
8y
@Dan H. They were there a year and left the place smoke damaged from scented candles! Did you know that could happen? I sure didn't. They are also getting charged for that.
@Dan H. They were there a year and left the place smoke damaged from scented candles! Did you know that could happen? I sure didn't. They are also getting charged for that.
Thank you for your input, it is very appreciated!
Never had scented candle smoke damage but I did have the worst smokers damage that I have seen in many years. It was an inherited tenant that stayed a total of 23 years (23 years of heavy smoking). We did everything except paint the foundation to remove the smoke smell but when the unit has been closed up a couple of days you can still smell the smoker smell.
Ceiling texture removed, ozoner used, industrial deodorizer, kilz primer to seal, new paint, all flooring except tile in bathroom and kitchen removed, it had no heat ducting. If I were doing it again I would seal the cement foundation with something like the kilz primer. Other than that we did all that we could and the smell still lingers.
Fortunately the smell is reduced enough that just living in the unit provides enough air movement so that it does not smell; for tenant turnover we need to open the unit up prior to the showing otherwise it has some smell.
We were already all non-smoking on tenants we had placed but this confirms our policy.
Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 48 votes
8y
You mentioned you have new tenants moving in next week. Does this overlap with the “13 days” you are trying to withhold from the deposit? If so, I’m pretty sure you won’t be able to stake a claim on that (double collection).
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y
Charge them rent. If the deployment exclusion says 30 days notice is required they have no basis for claiming less is adequate. You have filled it but you still didnt get adequate notice.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 366 posts · 283 votes
8y
Sarah D. I don’t think this is petty at all. You have a right to enforce the contract that they signed...since they left the place smoke damaged and didn’t provide documentation, I would charge them the 13 days if I were you.
Investor · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 12 votes
8y
It is very easy for them to get documentation of the deployment. If they provide you with this documentation, then I would thank them for their service and separate. However, I do not take kindly to people that lie to me, so if they are just saying that to get out of paying extra then I would for sure charge them. Be careful though if you have other people moving in. I'm not sure about your local laws, but in Nebraska, you cannot double charge for rent. So if you have someone moving in before the 13 days are up, you can only charge them for the days the new people are not in it.
Real Estate Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 143 posts · 167 votes
8y
@Sarah D. I'm retired military. In this case, it's very possible that the member who is deploying is moving the spouse across town into a living situation that will be easier for her to handle while he's gone. I've seen lots of spouses move into small apartments or move in with friends/family while the service member was away overseas. The member may also be anticipating that he'll be transferring to another assignment as soon as he returns from deployment and is trying to simplify things now so his spouse isn't stuck with packing up a house on her own. So there may be a legit reason for the local move. Without knowing all the details, I would suggest you request a copy of the deployment orders or a copy of a letter from the unit command confirming the deployment. If you get a letter (and not the actual order), ensure that it's on official command letterhead and has contact info for the officer or SNCO/CPO that signed the letter. Then contact that person to confirm the letter's authenticity. It's sad to say but I have seen military members forge deployment letters in order to break a lease. If everything checks out, I would refund their deposit (minus any damages you're authorized to recoup per state law) and move on with life.
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
8y
@Sarah D. you shouldn't need to repaint walls due to candle smoke. Usually if you just clean them with TSP, it will remove the smoke stains. Really you need to clean with TSP before painting smoke covered walls anyways, so the paint sticks. I have a "no candle" policy in my lease. I have had smoke damage and have had wax spilled on the carpet. Getting wax out of carpet is not easy. Candles are also a fire hazard.
As far as charging for the 13 days, I would charge them. Deployment does allow release from leases, but it doesn't allow them to give you 17 days notice. Even with a letter, it still requires 30 day notice.
I would hold the money until proper documentation is provided to you. Its not unreasonable to ask for deployment papers. Review the first link below, which requires the tenant to do their part as well and provide proper notice. They are to provide 30 day notice and copy of the paperwork, per link.
San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
8y
@Ericka G. Thank you for your perspective! Glad to know it's not just me.
@Joe Splitrock We did TSP wash the walls before painting, but even after the wash and rinse they looked dingy; the smoke damage wasn't as visible but the walls looked really sad (sort of looked like the wall by my 4 year old's bed, which I have washed numerous times). This is a fully remodeled unit so I didn't think we would get the best renters if we did not repaint. Even if you don't consciously notice the dingy walls, I think people can subconsciously 'feel' that the place was kind of tired. And yes, we now have a candle policy in our lease.
San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 226 votes
8y
@Jim Adrian Thanks for your thoughts! We've had two other tenants that had to move out of the area due to deployment and both gave the required 30 day notice and provided documentation. These tenants are staying in the area but wanted to move to a bigger place...