Attorney father co-signer

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Attorney father co-signer

Jeff S.
Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Have a couple in 30's with bad credit who have an attorney father that will co-sign. He just so happens to be a RE attorney. Would you say RUN?

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Joe Bertolino
Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
14y

I would not rent to anybody in their 30's that needs a cosigner. If they don't have their act together or they can't explain away the knocks on their credit because I am not interested in adding my name to their list of creditors and I don't want to try collect money from anyone with free legal representation.

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    14y

    I'm not a legal expert (or expert on attorneys), but I do know that most state Bar Associations frown on members not paying their debts, so if the co-signer is an attorney, this is probably a better situation than if he weren't.

    Just my first thought, though like I said, I don't know how much this would legally help you.

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  • Jeff S.
    OP
    Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Had a tenant through a management company and when she trashed the place she called her father because the manager wasn't going to give the deposit back. We had to refund some even though the damages were extensive. Just hate the idea of fighting against him. But, anyway, taking more apps today, will see what happens.

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  • Rob K.
    Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    While discrimination based on race, color, creed (whatever that is), national origin, religion, etc. is illegal, it is perfectly legal to discriminate against attorneys.

    I would never ever rent to a lawyer or biker. Those are two groups that I legally discriminate against. If you have a problem with a lawyer, you are already at a severe disadvantage. They are in the business of sueing people and would rather deal with you in court than work something out. You are bringing a knife to a gunfight. Same goes with bikers. I want nothing to do with them. They have too many freinds that do dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.

    I would rent to somebody else.

    3Reply
  • Joe Bertolino
    Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    I would not rent to anybody in their 30's that needs a cosigner. If they don't have their act together or they can't explain away the knocks on their credit because I am not interested in adding my name to their list of creditors and I don't want to try collect money from anyone with free legal representation.

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    14y

    WHo drew your lease agreements, are they rock solid? Do you walk through upon acceptance and take pics? Does your co-sign agreement include a hold harmless and indemnification agreement written by an attorney? If so, proceed and make it clear that you are not intimidated by the father and expect the agreements to goto the letter. I'd also suggest they know this my give them a boost in life getting their credit on the right track. I have had attorneys co-sign and had dealing with several and I never had a problem, they have alot to lose pulling some ill-fated deal. Otherwise, you don't have to accept a co-signer, tenants must meet the requirements on their own, just refuse them based on credit.

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  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    14y

    Rob K said it well. The father is certain to give this tenant free legal services, and you'll have to pay for yours when it comes to that. You lose if that happens, even if you end up winning any judgment.

    1Reply
  • Ann Bellamy
    Lender · Tyngsboro, MA · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    14y

    Joe Bertolino and Rob K I'd double vote if I could.

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    14y

    Have the father the attorney with the money put up a big non-refundable deposit and many months advance payment.

    I wouldn't care about the co-sign part of it as much as if he feels that confident he can pay for his kid upfront.

    If you have other options of course they may be more optimal. I bet when you ask this attorney for non-refundable upfront money he won't do it.

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  • Sean Chen
    Real Estate Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 19 posts · 2 votes
    14y

    I had the same situation two years ago when a couple in their late 30' with kids moved in my rental house with their brother co-signing. The brother is a RE attorney in San Diego. My property manager assured me that the co-signer has great credit.

    Guess what, the couple split during the lease and left. They caused about $3K damages to the house and nowhere to be found. Now my property manager became worried - not because the co-signer has great credit but he is a RE attorney!

    At the end we negotiated with the co-signer who agreed to pay about 3/5 of the damage we demanded. The payment was on time and the process was not nasty at all in gentleman's manner.

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  • Jeff S.
    OP
    Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Just received co-sign app from other father who is also very successful.

    Applicant no. 2 and 3 said yes same time.

    No. 2 is 3 late 20s girls, very nice, but one bath and one water supply for duplex.

    Applicant no. 3 only makes $3100 per mo with rent $895 and $387 child support. They are perfect for property but barely afford.

    Which would you choose?

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  • Rob K.
    Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Jeff S. Does applicant #3 receivbe $387 in child support or pay it out? If they receive it, I would say they easily qualify. If they are paying it out, they still have three times the monthly rent and barely qualify. I would go with them. Depends also on job length, credit, past rental history, etc.

    I try and stay away from roommate situations. Nothing but problems.

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  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    14y

    How much rent does #3 pay now? If same or very close, they might work out.

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  • Jeff S.
    OP
    Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    The girl in app #3 pays $350 and he pays $200.

    He has bad credit but was alcoholic and in recovery for 3 years, in a program with Union Gospel Missions. Have letters of recommendation. She has good credit (need to verify).

    He has $2-3000 in unpaid debts and judgments from drinking days he plans on paying. He also has 16k back child support.

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  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    14y

    $550 total isn't close to $895 you're seeking. That extra $300 per month would go a long way toward paying back the other debts, but if you rent to them they won't have that extra money.

    I assume the income from app #3 that you gave is their total income, not just his. That's a pretty low number for two earners.

    Sometimes you have to keep looking and leave it empty, sometimes you have to settle for whatever applicants you get. Tough for us on the forums to make that call for you. Really depends on how much interest you have in it, number of showings you get, and how many vacant units are nearby to compete with you.

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  • Jeff S.
    OP
    Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    It looks like applicant 3 will get it. Just got the credit back on the lady and she is stellar with credit lines and no debt.

    That is their combined income.

    The 3 girls would be next if these 2 didn't make it since the apps came in at exactly the same time. I see problems with the girls and think these 2 will make it. They are a perfect fit for the neighborhood. I do agree that extra money would help them pay his debt. They are doing Jack Ramsey program and lots of church stuff.

    His credit report hasn't come back yet. It needs to say what he said it would for them to make it.

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  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Jeff S.:
    ... I do agree that extra money would help them pay his debt. They are doing Jack Ramsey program and lots of church stuff.

    ...

    Some people donate far more to church than they can afford to donate ... that can sometimes make church involvement a negative, when they have borderline income level.

    0Reply
  • Jeff S.
    OP
    Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Would you turn the girls down who are qualified, then continue looking? I have many more calls but discrimination comes into play here.

    One huge plus is they like to cook. Big money saver.

    This has been the most complicated of all tenancies. Have had many willing and good potential applicants with animals. Just got done spending 5 weeks cleaning up this place with 3 levels of cat pee, 2 floors of wood. A real nightmare. A new animal would scent the old cat and a way we go again.

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  • Dave M.
    Residential Landlord · Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 356 posts · 81 votes
    14y

    Is the only negative for the 3 girls that they would be sharing a single bathroom?

    If that's your only reservation, and it isn't for them I wouldn't worry about it. Besides, if they don't pay you have 3 times the chance of collecting.

    0Reply
  • Rob K.
    Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Jeff S. I think it's Dave Ramsey. Not Jack Ramsey. Dave has a lot of good advice, books, and a great radio show on every day.

    I don't know the laws in Oregon, but in Michigan (if you wanted to play dirty) you could avoid any type of discrimination claim by saying that you don't rent to lesbians. Whether they are or not, they are not a protected class. I'm not saying I would do that here, but if I was accused of discrimination, I would play that card.

    Good luck. It sounds like you are on top of things and either party could work for you. I would avoid the people with the co-signor as I mentioned before.

    0Reply
  • Jeff S.
    OP
    Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Really think the 3rd applicant will do what it takes to make it work They seem like they could be very frugal and if need be, work a little harder. If they can handle this rent then maybe they will buy in the future.

    The neighborhood is a little rough around the edges and the other apps are softies. App 3 lived under a bridge so can handle most anything.

    Funny thing is all 3 have 1st, last, and a month security and will do a year lease. That is some nice upfront cash.

    0Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Rob K:
    ...

    I don't know the laws in Oregon, but in Michigan (if you wanted to play dirty) you could avoid any type of discrimination claim by saying that you don't rent to lesbians. Whether they are or not, they are not a protected class. I'm not saying I would do that here, but if I was accused of discrimination, I would play that card.

    ...

    Sexual orientation being a protected class depends on the state:
    http://apartments.about.com/od/protectedclassesfaq/f/sexorientation.htm

    0Reply
  • Jeff S.
    OP
    Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Dave Meyer This place is a 102 year old house conversion duplex with paper thin walls and 1 water line. The other tenants get up at 4am and 5am. With girls come boys and later night activities.

    I have 3 late 20s girls in my rental house and there is just more maintenance. It is perfectly fine, they pay rent on-time and I am happy with them there, don't think it would work in this place.

    Steve Babiak & Rob K don't think these girls are gay. They are 3 cute and lively and very funny girls. I would enjoy them, just think they'd be better off in a house.

    There is concern with the finances of the 3rd applicants but will discuss with them. His report isn't back yet but will expect it to be exactly as he says. Will see.

    0Reply
  • John Chapman
    Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 718 posts · 913 votes
    14y

    For whatever it's worth (and I realize this thread has gone off on to new topics) but I would never want to rent to an attorney. I would especially never rent to a 30-year old tenant whose father is cosigning and is an attorney. Attorneys are pains in the butt who will scrutinize everything and generally make your life miserable if anything goes south. (I know because I am one and spend my time fighting with them all day.) In this case, the father won't even be living there and will only get his dear son's version of events. Sounds like a nightmare.

    0Reply
  • Jeff S.
    OP
    Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    John Chapman, love it! Sounds like the fathers better chip in and buy the kids something.

    0Reply
  • Dave M.
    Residential Landlord · Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 356 posts · 81 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Jeff S.:
    John Chapman, love it! Sounds like the fathers better chip in and buy the kids something.

    Perhaps the father knows that's a bad investment

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