Landlords... Stop being so hard on your tenants
Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes
Landlords... Stop being so hard on your tenants
Most Popular Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votesLandlords also have bills and some of them may have lost their jobs. Just because they own a home (many have mortgages) doesn't mean they are rolling in money. Tenants need to pay what they can (ie they can't pay nothing) and work out a payment plan for any shortages with the landlord.
125 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes6y
Lot's of tenants looking for free money. The commercial retail tenants some might have a valid hardship and others jumping on the train trying to get free stuff.
A landlord needs to set up systems and processes to QUALIFY the validity of what the tenant is claiming. If the claim is verified then what the landlord and the tenant have in mind as a fair and equitable might be different. If the tenants looking for easy free money have to jump through a bunch of hoops to prove a hardship then for many the gig will be up and they will stop the process of asking.
It's not about landlords against tenants. It's about people in America having a common goal and plan where both can recover and get back to the strong economy we know we can achieve hopefully after this virus peaks and starts subsiding.
- Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
@Michaela G.
Every example you gave of helping others has nothing to do with blindly giving every single tenant a discount for April. It’s your business so it doesn’t affect me, but what are you going to do if some tenants need assistance for months? Giving automatic rent reduction to everybody simply doesn’t make sense. Instead of the example of restaurants making food for the homeless, what you are doing would be like grocery stores giving out free food to everybody.
This is not a "one size fits all" situation. Some renters can pay their rent. Not everyone has lost their job. So, I feel the first step is to communicate with your tenants if they have been impacted by the virus, such as loss of job, become ill and unable to work. You should be communicating on this personal level with your tenants anyway (my personal belief). If they are impacted and can show you documentation (yes, proof should be required as some will take advantage of this situation), then you should work through a plan with them. If they still have their jobs, then there should be no reason why they can't pay rent. We have two teachers that rent from us. We sent them a kindly written letter and asked them to tell us if they've been impacted. We offered them to pay their monthly rent on the 1st or take a second option to pay half rent on the 1st and 2nd half rent on the 15th. They chose option 2 - and who wouldn't for cash flow purposes. We feel we've been flexible during this time and offered them some help. There will be some that will try to take advantage of this situation so getting proof of their changed situation should be important.
- 78758 · Member since 2020 · 18 posts · 9 votes6y
I am happy and feel lucky to help my tenants out if they need it but let’s get everyone involved. Grocery stores can give everyone a break on groceries, banks can give us a break on our mortgages, drug companies can give people a break on their prescriptions... will it ever come to this?
- 6yMike HurneyPro MemberReal Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 542 votes
@Jason Allen
Spoken like a true Broker with no skin in the game (no rentals:-(
We probably know more about our Tenants than we do about family members (Credit check and Google search). A quick call should let you know what's going on. If you can't do that, maybe you should be in the stock market. This is a people business and you may not realize the people skills and insight you already have. (or record the call and let your spouse listen to it;-)
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Heather Frusco:
@Account Closed aside from you going on every post on BP and trying to desperately make your point... that LL's have a responsibility to support their tenants (other grown adults) and aside from you starting a thread telling landlords "to enjoy foreclosure"? in which the thread was ultimately removed...
Don't know about you but having options available to tenants such as paying via credit card or taking out a temporary loan to make ends meet or waving certain fees... are options... which somehow you seem to disagree with because they aren't 'free'. Not saying LL's can't offer assistance but if they do... it is their decision to make... not an entitlement now and will never be, some just can't. Any assistance a LL can offer aside from their normal operations should be sees as a courtesy even if that option is solely the ability for the Tenant to make ends meet via CC - don't have to use it but for goddess sake stop asking for 'free' - all should take responsibility for their financial situation and stop expecting others to pick up their slack. I don't any landlord here wouldn't love to have any non-paying tenant END their lease and move out... so not quite sure what the argument is... MOST LL's WOULD ALLOW NON-PAYING TENANTS TO MOVE OUT... the reality which you fail to mention but which you are likely very aware as well as all other LL's is... that most non-paying tenants will not move out, so back to taking responsibility for your own situation... if a Tenant is unable to afford it and all the options offered to them just aren't their 'cup of tea' they can always downsize i.e. end lease and move out - most don't as we all very well know.
Yea, I don't disagree. Being open to communicating with your tenants instead of attacking them out of fear is what I'm advising. I've seen several landlords in my market basically say "the tenant is in a legally binding contract so I'm fine as a landlord, I'll just get the money one way or another".
That's bad business which will end in them going Out of business. If they're looking for a fight you're going to find it.
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Gary L Wallman:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Gary L Wallman:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I've been reading through the forums here and I've read a lot of posts about how the tenants should have the money saved up to pay rent in an emergency, and if not they should use a credit card or the money in their retirement account to pay rent.
Yes, they signed a contract to pay a certain dollar amount for a certain period of time but no one saw this disaster coming.
Instead of forcing them into debt or draining their retirement accounts why don't you just let them leave. Let them break the lease and go live with family or friends. Or you can give them a lower dollar amount to pay for the next 90 days.
The truth is that you should have adequate reserves for situations like this as a "professional investor". Try to have some compassion for the average person who makes very little money compared to you and probably lives paycheck to paycheck.
Jason,
So now I'm a greedy pig because I expect people to pay me rent on a home I have a hundred grand invested in. As a "professional investor" I have purchased, renovated and made available a residence for a renter who would otherwise not be able to inhabit such a nice home. So then, I should allow them just not to pay me because times got tough for a minute.
News flash: It took years of hard work and sacrifice to build a Real Estate portfolio. Not 30 days of hardship.
Based on your less then brilliant criteria, there would be no "professional investors" in real estate any longer. The masses would have no nice places to live and all would be fine in your make believe world.
Gary
Gary, I never said you were a greedy pig.
I'm saying that the world and the economy doesn't care about your hundred grand, they don't care about your hard work or You.
I've started and operated multiple businesses and I can tell you right now that hating the customer and treating them like cattle that pump out money is a great way to lose your hard earned business. A little compassion (NOT a slack hand doormat mentality) will go a long way.
Jason,
Perhaps I misunderstood. My apologies.
I own seven small car dealerships in addition to my RE investing so I agree wholeheartedly about treating your customers well. Have to to grow, want to to be a human being.
Disagree a little bit about the economy. It may not care about my hundred grand or hard work, but it sure does care about all our hundred grands and hard work cumulatively. Without producers, consumers have nothing to consume and cease to exist along with our economy.
Gary
I agree.
I was making a very nuanced point here that only those experienced in business for probably 10+ years (long enough to go through ups and downs) are to be able to understand. Sounds like you've been around the block a few times as well.
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Anthony Wick:
I would think the mere fact that people are not stepping in line and defending the OP’s idea of free rent or free move out without consequences would be a wake up call to him that perhaps his ideas aren’t good. But, nope. Even when I quoted him he insists I haven’t read his posts.
A great majority of us will work with tenants that are affected by this. But also, a huge majority of us are not going to sacrifice our holdings for free rent offers and/or free move outs. Of course, a vast majority of tenants aren’t going to simply move out just because you make the suggestion. That’s a pipe dream. Most don’t have an option to move somewhere and live for free.
It’s baffling that he thinks the only two options are giving tenants something for nothing or you’re immoral. Of course, he also thinks a tenant should be able to hoard retirement funds and college savings instead of paying rent, and also thinks a tenant is the landlords responsibility.
You sound like the main stream media, repeating something enough times hoping it will become true.
I never advocated free rent Anthony.
Simply 1. negotiate on a lower rent in the mean time or 2. let them break the lease and get a full paying tenant in the door.
How is that not easy to understand? I literally can't spell it out any simpler for you.
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:
@James Wise, the original poster does not own properties. He has an interest in piling on landlords because he (proports) to have numerous outstanding leases on a number of rentals that he sublets on Airbnb. When things were going good, he told us all we were fools... now that things have gone south he wants to be able to simply "walk away" from the leases... He has started this thread purely out of self-interest. He has absolutely no interest in business models or anyone else's side of the story.
Ahhhh no, you're not telling me he's one of those rent out a landlord's house then Airbnb it dudes are you? lol, good God. The Airbnb sublet business model makes wholesaling look intelligent.
LOL. You gotta be kidding me. I went back and read that he says he owns 500 units, but in another post he says he's doing the AirBnB arbitrage..and combined together he says he owns "500 units"? BS! He doesn't own ANYTHING. He has little or no financial responsibility, and he has the nerve to call out all those that do for not giving away the farm?
To be fair, maybe he should put an add out saying all of his 500 units are available for free, as a place for all of those tenants leaving their rental homes.
Maybe this is what I get for not publishing my portfolio on the internet, sorry I'm a private person.
500+ Class B MF units
I do Airbnb arbitrage (rental arbitrage) and then invest that cashflow into the MF apartments.
I also have build, operated and sold companies in other spaces as well but all the money gets funneled into MultiFamily.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you... No good deed goes unpunished as they say, hopefully you won't have to learn the lessons I've learned, but continuing to disregard advice is a great way to accomplish that. Good luck.
- Member since 2019 · 11 posts · 3 votes6y
I've been a foster parent, volunteered for the humane society, learned Spanish fluently helping migrant farmworkers for free, am vegan for ethical reasons, have a bird refuge and a zoo of rescues. I will be fair and work with my tenants but my rentals, all bought right before the 2008 crash, are not a charity.
- 6yJoe VilleneuvePro MemberPlymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
Ahhhh no, you're not telling me he's one of those rent out a landlord's house then Airbnb it dudes are you? lol, good God. The Airbnb sublet business model makes wholesaling look intelligent.
LOL. You gotta be kidding me. I went back and read that he says he owns 500 units, but in another post he says he's doing the AirBnB arbitrage..and combined together he says he owns "500 units"? BS! He doesn't own ANYTHING. He has little or no financial responsibility, and he has the nerve to call out all those that do for not giving away the farm?
To be fair, maybe he should put an add out saying all of his 500 units are available for free, as a place for all of those tenants leaving their rental homes.
Maybe this is what I get for not publishing my portfolio on the internet, sorry I'm a private person.
500+ Class B MF units
I do Airbnb arbitrage (rental arbitrage) and then invest that cashflow into the MF apartments.
I also have build, operated and sold companies in other spaces as well but all the money gets funneled into MultiFamily.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you... No good deed goes unpunished as they say, hopefully you won't have to learn the lessons I've learned, but continuing to disregard advice is a great way to accomplish that. Good luck.
Hey Jason,...ever hear of something called a mirror?
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Jeff C.:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Patrick M.:
@James Wise, the original poster does not own properties. He has an interest in piling on landlords because he (proports) to have numerous outstanding leases on a number of rentals that he sublets on Airbnb. When things were going good, he told us all we were fools... now that things have gone south he wants to be able to simply "walk away" from the leases... He has started this thread purely out of self-interest. He has absolutely no interest in business models or anyone else's side of the story.
Ha... not true I own over 500 MF units, and I'm not walking away from anything.
I have a hard time believing that anyone owning 500 units would be spending their time on cockamamie STR arbitrage schemes. Probably making use of:
The BP two step shortcut to owning 500 units
1: Invest $5,000 in a syndication that buys a 500 unit development
2: Claim to own 500 units
I've seen it far too many times.
I used to think that people could think for themselves. That they could recognize truth and wisdom when they encountered it.
A mentor of mine years ago told me that "there is no competition, because so few people actually recognize a good strategy when they see it, they either think that it's too good to be true or that they don't believe they have what it takes."
I've slowly and regrettably learned how true this statement was over the years.
Good luck
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Mike Hurney:
@Jason Allen
Spoken like a true Broker with no skin in the game (no rentals:-(
We probably know more about our Tenants than we do about family members (Credit check and Google search). A quick call should let you know what's going on. If you can't do that, maybe you should be in the stock market. This is a people business and you may not realize the people skills and insight you already have. (or record the call and let your spouse listen to it;-)
Mike,
Yes I have Airbnb listings using rental arbitrage.
I also own commercial multifamily, and more than that to be honest.
I'm not going to say it again.
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Joe Seegers:
you guys have to realize you should work with tenants,because if this last along time like 2008 ,you will realize what i mean.sure everyone should be able pay their rent with their stimulas checks.sure you might have to workout payment plans to they get them.but after that it might get rough ,if the goverment does not get people back to work.what choice to you have,a tenant you know,or a complete stranger without a job.alot of you where not around in 2000 and 2008.this market could get real bad.like now if you advertise a place you get a good responce to look at it.in 2008 you would advertise and hardly anybody would respond and if they did they wanted 1 or 2 months free rent.i would prefer to work with tenants now,and i can already know which tenants its going to be.it will be the 10% of tenants you always have to remind to pay.90% of your tenants will find a way to pay.we all know they signed a contract to pay,just be nice if they work with you,maybe stop late fees or reduce them.but to forgive the rent is another story,unless the goverment forgives our taxes.you got to realize now you should be in survival mold,for i can tell you if you make it threw their should be sunshine at the other end.because most new building is coming to a halt,most remodeling coming to halt ,most family being home more ,which maybe creates larger family,and when this done most banks will have even more tougher standards for a loan ,like 6 months reserve for a borrower.so down the road rents will rise probably more then before this crisis.so just hang in their and develop a plan you your situation.so look as this as a bump in the road.and if you live in wisconsin ,you should know by the amount of potholes we have
I think there's a lot of wisdom in this post that the readers should pay attention to.
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Sid K.:
This is an unprecedented health and financial situation , so we are being flexible and trying to be a part of the solutions :
- 1) If our tenants alert us to their inability to pay rents - we are being compassionate and listening.
- 2) We are asking for little more background on their situation ( Lost job ? sick ? someone in the family sick ?)
- 3) If we think there are genuine reasons , we are offering a combination ( not all) of the following options
- . 3.a) Waive late fees
- . 3.b) Adjust their security deposit for the next months rent
- . 3.c) Offer flexible termination of the lease, if they want to vacate and move with family
- 3.d) Offer them additional 30 days to pay current rent.
- 3.e) Issue a notice to them that is empathetic to their situation , but also puts the eviction process rolling so it can be executed once we we want and are legally able to.
- 4) If we believe that they are taking unfair advantage of the situation and not paying rent ( They still have their job , no sickness etc) - we are providing them a notice to intent to evict as soon as we are legally able to.
Welcome thoughts on anything we can do different.
Thanks
Sid,
Can you explain to me why all the posts that make sense (like yours) always seem to get the lowest amount of votes and feedback?
While one's charged with emotion and resentment and false statements are celebrated.
Do you think that maybe people here don't actually want to be productive?
- Investor · Union, NJ · Member since 2020 · 81 posts · 312 votes6y
@Account Closed I'm confused bad business for who? Like I said... most LL's WILL allow a Tenant to break lease if they can not afford rent... majority of Tenants will however not move out... living expenses come due one way or the other... again they don't just disappear into thin air.
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Karen Mills:
I've been a foster parent, volunteered for the humane society, learned Spanish fluently helping migrant farmworkers for free, am vegan for ethical reasons, have a bird refuge and a zoo of rescues. I will be fair and work with my tenants but my rentals, all bought right before the 2008 crash, are not a charity.
And the claims that you should have not been made by anyone here.
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Just as a data point Chris C from Memphis made a post a few years back and posted their stats of the 2k or 3k homes they have sold over the years and manage.. as you said and going on memory here but it was certainly the majority that only owned one or two homes. and when it got real thin when you got to 5 or over.. now that was a few years back.. but I did find it interesting..
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Al Pat:
@Jason Allen I think most landlords know cost of turnover is far more expensive then reduced rent. I always try to find creative solutions for my tenants in need where they can pay weekly or biweekly, I also deferred rent up to two months and allowed them to get on payment plant and that was even before COVID-19. Granted, these exceptions are truly by expectation based on their past payment history, how they care for the unit, their communication with my team and mainly their attitude towards us. However, will see how this situation is impacting our most stable tenants.
you would think that but there are a lot of newer landlords that have not put that knowledge in their knowledge bucket and have to go through the eviction turnover route to get the experience to put in their Bucket..
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Heather Frusco:
@Account Closed I'm confused bad business for who? Like I said... most LL's WILL allow a Tenant to break lease if they can not afford rent... majority of Tenants will however not move out... living expenses come due one way or the other... again they don't just disappear into thin air.
I don't think I disagree with you.
If you have bad tenants that won't move out then evict them. That's a completely different topic.
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Melanie Dupuis:
We texted, emailed, called, and hand delivered letters to all our 100+ tenants. This was received very positively and mot seem to have the ability to pay. There have been a few that have identified hardship, we will continue to work with them to ensure the best case scenario for everyone
Has the Crown stepped in like the US govmit to help tenants and those who have mortgages. ?
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
I'm not saying let them get something for free and that everyone should give away free stuff.
I think you're reading the rebuttals not the actual post.
I'm saying to work with them to pay something rather than nothing. If they can't pay anything let them leave without hunting them down for back payments and get a new tenant in who can pay full rent.
If this is not clear then I'm done because I literally can't say it any simpler than that.
- 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Joe Seegers:
you guys have to realize you should work with tenants,because if this last along time like 2008 ,you will realize what i mean.sure everyone should be able pay their rent with their stimulas checks.sure you might have to workout payment plans to they get them.but after that it might get rough ,if the goverment does not get people back to work.what choice to you have,a tenant you know,or a complete stranger without a job.alot of you where not around in 2000 and 2008.this market could get real bad.like now if you advertise a place you get a good responce to look at it.in 2008 you would advertise and hardly anybody would respond and if they did they wanted 1 or 2 months free rent.i would prefer to work with tenants now,and i can already know which tenants its going to be.it will be the 10% of tenants you always have to remind to pay.90% of your tenants will find a way to pay.we all know they signed a contract to pay,just be nice if they work with you,maybe stop late fees or reduce them.but to forgive the rent is another story,unless the goverment forgives our taxes.you got to realize now you should be in survival mold,for i can tell you if you make it threw their should be sunshine at the other end.because most new building is coming to a halt,most remodeling coming to halt ,most family being home more ,which maybe creates larger family,and when this done most banks will have even more tougher standards for a loan ,like 6 months reserve for a borrower.so down the road rents will rise probably more then before this crisis.so just hang in their and develop a plan you your situation.so look as this as a bump in the road.and if you live in wisconsin ,you should know by the amount of potholes we have
YUP you tend to have those posting who lived and worked through the GFC in a meaningful way.. and those that are post and this is just something they have no experience with and really dont know what is going to happen.. real estate is risk reward.. its not guaranteed income
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Sid K.:
This is an unprecedented health and financial situation , so we are being flexible and trying to be a part of the solutions :
- 1) If our tenants alert us to their inability to pay rents - we are being compassionate and listening.
- 2) We are asking for little more background on their situation ( Lost job ? sick ? someone in the family sick ?)
- 3) If we think there are genuine reasons , we are offering a combination ( not all) of the following options
- . 3.a) Waive late fees
- . 3.b) Adjust their security deposit for the next months rent
- . 3.c) Offer flexible termination of the lease, if they want to vacate and move with family
- 3.d) Offer them additional 30 days to pay current rent.
- 3.e) Issue a notice to them that is empathetic to their situation , but also puts the eviction process rolling so it can be executed once we we want and are legally able to.
- 4) If we believe that they are taking unfair advantage of the situation and not paying rent ( They still have their job , no sickness etc) - we are providing them a notice to intent to evict as soon as we are legally able to.
Welcome thoughts on anything we can do different.
Thanks
Sid,
Can you explain to me why all the posts that make sense (like yours) always seem to get the lowest amount of votes and feedback?
While one's charged with emotion and resentment and false statements are celebrated.
Do you think that maybe people here don't actually want to be productive?
@Jason Allen - Cant comment on that , but do feel, like all things in life, sometimes the loud and sensational voices get immediate attention - and thats ok . The logical and sensible voices always stay around longer.
- Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes6y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Joe Seegers:
you guys have to realize you should work with tenants,because if this last along time like 2008 ,you will realize what i mean.sure everyone should be able pay their rent with their stimulas checks.sure you might have to workout payment plans to they get them.but after that it might get rough ,if the goverment does not get people back to work.what choice to you have,a tenant you know,or a complete stranger without a job.alot of you where not around in 2000 and 2008.this market could get real bad.like now if you advertise a place you get a good responce to look at it.in 2008 you would advertise and hardly anybody would respond and if they did they wanted 1 or 2 months free rent.i would prefer to work with tenants now,and i can already know which tenants its going to be.it will be the 10% of tenants you always have to remind to pay.90% of your tenants will find a way to pay.we all know they signed a contract to pay,just be nice if they work with you,maybe stop late fees or reduce them.but to forgive the rent is another story,unless the goverment forgives our taxes.you got to realize now you should be in survival mold,for i can tell you if you make it threw their should be sunshine at the other end.because most new building is coming to a halt,most remodeling coming to halt ,most family being home more ,which maybe creates larger family,and when this done most banks will have even more tougher standards for a loan ,like 6 months reserve for a borrower.so down the road rents will rise probably more then before this crisis.so just hang in their and develop a plan you your situation.so look as this as a bump in the road.and if you live in wisconsin ,you should know by the amount of potholes we have
YUP you tend to have those posting who lived and worked through the GFC in a meaningful way.. and those that are post and this is just something they have no experience with and really dont know what is going to happen.. real estate is risk reward.. its not guaranteed income
Amen.
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