Eviction News Update - finally some Good News

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Oops, my mistake. I thought they were going to give Landlords a break . . . Instead of easing the Eviction Moratorium to help Landlords, Instead of Providing Landlords with financial assistance, WA State and soon others, are going to Provide Free Legal Service to tenants to Fight the Landlords when evictions start up again.  

Washington state lawmakers push to provide lawyers for residents facing eviction

A bill up for final approval by the Washington state Senate aims to provide attorneys for some low-income residents facing eviction, which would make it the first state to enact such a measure.

text, qr code: Washington state lawmakers push to provide lawyers for residents facing eviction

© Getty Images Washington state lawmakers push to provide lawyers for residents facing eviction

The bill, a draft of which was initially passed in the state Senate and was approved with amendments by the House on Thursday, would provide lawyers for tenants who meet certain qualifying conditions.

Those eligible to receive legal representation from the state include residents receiving certain public assistance, individuals who have been committed to a mental health facility, those who can't afford an attorney or those who have incomes at 125 percent or below the federal poverty level, according to The Seattle Times.

Jim Bamberger, director of the state's Office of Civil Legal Aid, praised the legislation, telling the Times that it "is a powerful statement on the part of the legislature in terms of balancing power in the justice system between tenants and landlords."

"And I think it will work, honestly, in favor of both," he added.

However, an amendment added to the bill Thursday night has prompted concern from housing advocates, as it would end Washington state's eviction moratorium on June 30, the same day the federal order halting the practice amid the pandemic is set to expire.

Bamberger told the Times that if passed, the bill would require his office to hire 58 additional state attorneys, which he said may not be logistically possible in less than three months.

However, some state lawmakers have pointed out that the amendment would temporarily require the state to provide rental assistance directly to a person's landlord if a program qualified tenant does not have access to a lawyer starting July 1.

"The argument that the day the moratorium ends people are going to be on the street is just false," state Rep. Andrew Barkis (R) told the Times. "It takes months to go through the eviction process."

"We believe there will be plenty of time for these things to get set up," he added.

Bamberger noted that the legal representation program will likely cost his office an estimated $11.4 million in the first year.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced late last month, three days before the existing federal eviction moratorium was set to expire, that it would be extending the temporary ban on coronavirus-related evictions through the end of June.

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said in a statement at the time, "The COVID-19 pandemic has presented a historic threat to the nation's public health. Keeping people in their homes and out of crowded or congregate settings - like homeless shelters - by preventing evictions is a key step in helping to stop the spread of COVID-19."

However, concerns have erupted in recent days after a new guidance issued by a Texas judicial advisory panel gave the green light for state courts to openly defy the CDC moratorium, putting hundreds of thousands of Texans at risk of being removed from their homes.

But- tenants already get free legal aid  from tenants unions. And honestly it seems that this is for those that really do need help (mentally unstable, below poverty line, etc)  

I guess I am not going to get upset about this. There are funds available to pay back rent so hopefully there wont be any evictions due to non payment of rent in covid times 


Originally posted by @Eric Weldon-Schilling: @Mary M.:

  why is this a bad thing? Landlords always get to have a lawyer when they want on why shouldn’t tenants  be able to have that same right? Especially since they’re the ones in the situation that have the most to lose. The current set up is incredibly one-sided and unfair and leads to a huge increase in homelessness and only exacerbates poverty issues. 
if people are worried about the money, pay for it by having attacks on large corporate landlords and people that bring in over a certain threshold a rental income each year. Like 1% on everyone making over 500,000 in rental income. 

Hmm, you don't own any rentals do you? Ever read the 4th amendment to the US Constitution?

Say you have a rental and are making $150  month when the tenant is paying. Say your mortgage payment is $1,000 a month. Say you haven't been paid by the tenant for 12 months, that puts you $12,000 behind not counting the $1200 in lost revenue. That is because the government said they didn't have to pay during COVID. Now, say there is an eviction moratorium for those 12 months so you can't evict and replace with a paying tenant. Now say, you finally did find a way to evict and the government says that you can hire an attorney at your own expense and the  government will spend your tax dollars to fund the attorney for your non-paying, finally evictable tenant and your tenant has nothing to lose. Going to court is costly, time consuming and a big distraction. You lose just by having to pay the legal fees and take the time.

May you have the pleasure of many tenant related court cases against you as you pursue your investing career.

Do you have a clue how many rentals are going to go into foreclosure because of this? Why would a landlord risk his life savings to get so little and be spat upon by government and people who think like you do? They will simply let the properties go back to the bank. 

There will be much more homelessness from this terrible idea.



 

Originally posted by @Mary M. :

But- tenants already get free legal aid  from tenants unions. And honestly it seems that this is for those that really do need help (mentally unstable, below poverty line, etc)  

I guess I am not going to get upset about this. There are funds available to pay back rent so hopefully there wont be any evictions due to non payment of rent in covid times 

Oddly enough, I agree with you.

May you have the pleasure of many tenant related court cases against you as you pursue your investing career.

 

@Mike Baxter I am owed rent by a tenant so I understand the frustration. Tenants DO have something to lose - having an eviction on your record makes renting very challenging. 

There are funds available to pay back rent - as long as the tenant is still in the property - you can get 80% of back rent paid by the feds,  You might look into this. 

Unfortunately for me I cant access those funds as my non paying tenant moved out. So I am **** out of luck sadly.  Still, I know that some people are having to make hard decisions - and hopefully you, as the LL can do your part by applying for the rental fund.....

And, fwiw I agree that a profit of 150/mo is slim and is not enough to help a LL weather a storm like this unless they have a years worth of reserves set aside....  also  mortgages can be put on hold so you would not need to pay your mortgage payments (they will just geg put at the back) which should help.... good luck I hope you get your rent funds. 

Originally posted by @Mary M. :

@Mike Baxter I am owed rent by a tenant so I understand the frustration. Tenants DO have something to lose - having an eviction on your record makes renting very challenging. 

There are funds available to pay back rent - as long as the tenant is still in the property - you can get 80% of back rent paid by the feds,  You might look into this. 

Unfortunately for me I cant access those funds as my non paying tenant moved out. So I am **** out of luck sadly.  Still, I know that some people are having to make hard decisions - and hopefully you, as the LL can do your part by applying for the rental fund.....

And, fwiw I agree that a profit of 150/mo is slim and is not enough to help a LL weather a storm like this unless they have a years worth of reserves set aside....  also  mortgages can be put on hold so you would not need to pay your mortgage payments (they will just geg put at the back) which should help.... good luck I hope you get your rent funds. 

It isn't me that has to worry. I'm getting between $700 and $1,000 a month positive cash flow on all of my properties (except one which is somewhat less) and all are paying on time. But, that isn't the case for most people on Bigger Pockets.

It's a big mistake to think that because oneself is doing well that everybody is doing well. Many landlords are not. And the other big mistake is to have "success envy" (jealousy) and think that government, big corporations or even small landlords owe it to tenants & the homeless to pay for the tenant's bad decisions. 

Yes, it's poor decision making on the tenant's part, not "bad luck" that someone is homeless. Many tenants can afford to pay but aren't because government "told" them they don't have to or can't be evicted. It's a scam, nothing else.

Not getting an education (that's a choice) not working hard (that's a choice) staying off drugs (that's a choice) working hard to find a job (that's a choice) there are "Help Needed" job signs all over the place. There is a very tiny number of people we are to help who are disabled (physically or mentally) but that by far isn't the problem here. 

I have no patience for people who make a lifestyle out of making bad choices and expecting others to bail them out. Without the pain of losing something, they will never change their bad decisions.

 

@Mike Baxter ,

So glad my rentals are in VA, and not WA!

I don't know if I could have a tenant not pay me for a long time, knowing they got at least unemployment, stimulus, tax return,  etc... and then  instead of the state helping landlords, the ones that are ultimately hurting as they haven't gotten paid-- they're "helping" by paying lawyers, to sue the landlords?  

@Eric Weldon-Schilling

If you look at most national research on evictions, the supermajority (about 90%) of cases are decided in the landlords favor because the tenant hasn’t paid them. Those evictions are just. It’s as with any other consumer good or service. Do we think it’s unjust that we can’t take groceries, gas and/or clothing from other businesses without compensation. Legal Aid is not a problem for most tenants but these programs give the illusion that most landlords are greedy slumlords taking advantage of poor people. Contrary to mainstream media opinion, most landlords don’t want to evict. But without the tool of eviction large corporations will step in where the small landlord can no longer afford and then we’ll see how fairer they are as landlords compared to Mom & Pops.

Crazy out there. Invest in Texas where we can evict in 30 days!

WA state even is limiting commercial evictions. Makes no sense to me.

Originally posted by @Eric Weldon-Schilling:

If you are so underwater that you’re only making $150 a month and will be completely broke if someone misses a month or is late then you shouldn’t be owning Edgar property in the first place. Then you’re just building an ever more precarious house of cards. 
the government didn’t say no rent they said you can’t throw people out in a pandemic. Honestly they’ve given out enough money that no one should be unable to pay and even if they are, there are many many programs to help pay rent but now landlords are often refusing to accept it. Or they won’t accept partial payments or payment plans and just let people get deeper in debt, while still adding on large late fees to ensure they’ll never be able to repay. 
It should be an equal playing field. If the landlord has a lawyer the renter should be provided one. If the landlord is pro se the tenant can be but if the tenant hires a lawyer and the landlord doesn’t, then he should be provided one. 

And if banks foreclose then there need to be laws that prohibit them from kicking people out too. Same with new buyers. Or better yet, just send every landlord with a mortgage payment for all their past due rent, made out directly to their mortgage company or bank. Solves that problem. 

There is a field of human endeavor known as 'logic' aka 'deductive reasoning'

You ought to become familiar with it, because you have no point. You have opinions based on feelings and ideals, but you have no deductions based on facts. You speculate based on your ideals and consequently make big errors. It creates the appearance that you are extremely unintelligent. Assuming you are not, you may wish to rectify this by doing some learning around 'reasoning' - its basic structured thinking that helps us separate sensible conclusions from opinions. You haven't a clue where the difference lies.

If one was to sit in a structured debate with you, you'd be laughed off the stage - its fine to feel the way you feel, fine to wish for a better world, but it is not fine to trade in fallacies. This forum is one of the worst I've ever seen with regard to reasoning errors - many on the other side do it too. Bottom line: If you do not have FACTS and REASONING you just yell at the other guy until you both get tired of feeling angry. It helps no one and nothing.

 

@Eric Weldon-Schilling:

Landlords always get to have a lawyer when they want on why shouldn’t tenants  be able to have that same right? [...]

So you're saying that both the tenant and the landlord should have the same rights to an attorney? I agree 100%. Where are my free attorneys? Oh, wait, I'm guessing that you only want free for one side.

if people are worried about the money, pay for it by having attacks on large corporate landlords and people that bring in over a certain threshold a rental income each year. Like 1% on everyone making over 500,000 in rental income. 

I just cannot believe that some people are so clueless that they think taxing others will actually pay for things. How do you not understand that these extra taxes will be passed on to you, the consumer (renter)? 

I'll never forget my conversation with a (typically very smart) tenant who was so happy that a bunch of clean air/water/daycare/parks propositions passed. I pointed out that they cost a lot. He responded that, no, it's only like 1/10 of 1% increase in property tax and besides, I don't pay property tax as I don't own any property. That's one good thing about being a renter. 

He was f***ing floored when I pointed out that this 1/10 of 1% was about $40 a month in taxes on the unit he was living in and that landlords don't pay taxes for their tenants, we just build it into the rent rates. Ended up raising his rent $75 at renewal and let him know that $72 was my increase in costs. I suspect he has voted against every tax increase since. 😀

Originally posted by @Mary M. :

so @Greg M. your property taxes  are 480k on that one unit???  That seems excessive?! 

(40x12/.001) 

No. 1/10 of 1% tax on a $500K place would be $500 in tax or around $40/month. 

Don't you want nice parks? Vote for this, it's only add 0.025% in taxes. That's an extra $125. Now vote for these 7 other things. 

My favorite, they encouraged us to rip out our lawn and put in hardscaping to save water and be environmentally conscious. Then idiots vote in a tax based on how much hardscape you have because rain can't reach the soil. That's an extra $200 a year. No joke!

Originally posted by @Mary M. :

so @Greg M. your property taxes  are 480k on that one unit???  That seems excessive?! 

(40x12/.001) 

Yeah - he's got a little 4 unit place he pays $1.92M in property taxes and rents the units out for $1,200/ months so his net loss just on rent vs property taxes is about $1.86M ... Estimating the mortgage on this little 4-unit dream complex from the property taxes, it should be about $6m/year - So... his monthly payments are around $670k and he brings in about $5k - sounds like your tenant should be worshiping the very ground you walk on, providing such palatial accommodations as an altruist to the tune of about $665k/month - wow dude, you must be loaded! Investing in real estate certainly is a scam ...

In reality you made a little ooopsie with your decimal point. Probably not just 1 place place but 2 ... not $480k - not $48k - more like $4.8k .. in other words, your tenants parks and whatnot cost $0.40 - what kind of a sociopath doesn't want to be part of a society where we all contribute such tiny amounts for the benefit of all of us? You could always move way out in the middle of nowhere and build your own phone lines, solar power, dig a well, pave your own roads, never rely on the police or fire department, never use the US mail ... you won't have to pay taxes either because you'll be completely autonomous! At least you won't be paying for war because thats where it actually all goes. Zoink.

People on this site are so dumb its kinda horrifying.

 

Ahhhh ok i understood you to mean the increase was .001 of the property tax    And you meant an added  .001 tax on the  value of the home. 

Still we all need to pay our share i guess. 




@Account Closed

"Hell I’d gladly pay a 30% income tax"

I could be wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am), but I think the top tax rate is 37% national and 13% (at least in California), so I'm guessing you're not alone in being happy to pay 30% income tax.  Plus property tax, plus sales tax, fees, licenses, tolls, etc., etc., etc.

"If you are so underwater that you’re only making $150 a month and will
be completely broke if someone misses a month or is late then you
shouldn’t be owning Edgar property in the first place."

So, it's fine to be in a position to not pay your rent, but it's no ok to be in a position to own a rental if the profits aren't high enough or if you don't have enough money to overcome government intervention?  Weird logic, imo.

150/month is a very slim margin and one large expense will wipe out any profit - possibly for many years.....  there is the maxim that we all should have one years worth of expenses (or income) set aside as reserves....  but at 100-150/mo that is not much of a cushion...  a new HVAC system and that money is gone So yeah, its a risky model...  however, it is how many folks get into investing and ultimately and hopefully they provide safe, clean and affordable housing for folks.....

Also, fed tax rate increases as ones income increases....  so lots of folks pay less than 30%....  

@Eric Weldon-Schilling   hopefully you will pick up enough info on this site so that you will be able to buy a place in the near future. 

@Eric Weldon-Schilling, your statement is wrong on so many levels that it is scary. Please read Atlas Shrugged, which was written by a woman who was forced to grow up in communism and escaped. If landlords cannot evict for failure to pay rent, how long before that housing falls apart? No money to paint, replace flooring, replace broken windows, fix roof leaks, broken toilets, repair electrical issues? If car companies could collect payments for selling cars or repair costs, how long would it be before they quit making cars and parts? If grocery stores could not stop shoplifters from taking all the food they want and not pay, how long until grocery stores quit selling groceries? If medical institutions could not collect for delivering babies, doing surgery, or even just seeing sick kids, in a few years people would quit being doctors and nurses. Imagine a world where kids die from the flu, ear infections, or where kidney stones, bad gall bladders and appendicitis are death penalties? If you don't pay people for the fruits of their labor they quit working. No one will ever buy a run down house and fix it up to rent if tenants don't have to pay rent. Would you allow someone to move into your house free of charge and live there forever? Would you allow people to take your vehicle and leave you with no way to go to work because you seem rich to them? How about eat your food if they are hungrier than you? How long will power plants run if no one pays for electricity? I could go on forever.