New Member from Toronto, Ontario and learning about BRRRR!

New Member from Toronto, Ontario and learning about BRRRR!

Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 23 votes

Hello BP Community! I'm Florence, and moved from the most expensive market in Canada (Vancouver) to the second priciest one here in Toronto three years ago :)

I purchased and sold condos and learned a lot from family who did the same, and am comfortable with tenant selection and management although we rent to yuppie A+ tenants or students which makes it much easier.

I am contemplating stepping out of my comfort zone as I consider next steps. I have a 2-bedroom condo in downtown Toronto and was inadvertently house hacking before I learned about the term by renting out a room, and fortunately seen significant appreciation after minor upgrades and general lift from the market.

I'm debating between refinancing my property to purchase a second condo either to move into or rent out (20% down up to $500k), or selling my current home and attempting to find a townhouse or house with an income component such as a basement to continue building equity. I love the idea of multifamily housing, but with work demands, lack of handiness, and units going for well over $1M, I would look to partner with investors and and learn along the way.

It feels a bit risky as I am a single income earner in a hot market that may be cooling off after the government's latest mortgage changes, so I will continue to read here and look forward to learning from all of you fabulous and friendly folks!

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Investor · St. Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 692 posts · 312 votes
9y

If you suspect that prices may fall and you need security, I would not go upgrading to a more valuable property. If you suspect a dip in the market and you want security, then stick to cash-flow properties. If the house value drops the rents will stay the same you'll just carry on flowing cash. 

And yes, as Rosston says, BRRRR is a great way to start building cash flowing properties. I'd be cautious about it if you lack both time and handiness. Perhaps a JV with a trustworthy person who has time and handiness would make sense. You source the property and front the cash, they renovate, you manage tenants and they keep up the property maintenance. Get it stable and refinance it to start another one.

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  • Investor · Warner Robins, GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 490 votes
    9y

    Hello welcome to BP! BRRRR is a great way to go!

  • Investor · St. Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 692 posts · 312 votes
    9y

    If you suspect that prices may fall and you need security, I would not go upgrading to a more valuable property. If you suspect a dip in the market and you want security, then stick to cash-flow properties. If the house value drops the rents will stay the same you'll just carry on flowing cash. 

    And yes, as Rosston says, BRRRR is a great way to start building cash flowing properties. I'd be cautious about it if you lack both time and handiness. Perhaps a JV with a trustworthy person who has time and handiness would make sense. You source the property and front the cash, they renovate, you manage tenants and they keep up the property maintenance. Get it stable and refinance it to start another one.

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 137 votes
    9y

    @Florence Lee

    Nice to meet you, welcome to B/P. Here you will make some great connections and learn lots at the same time. I have been on B/P for a few years and made some great connections. Unfortunately this is more american and there is not much said about Canadian inventory. I was born in Canada but spent most of my life in U.S. Las Vegas more specifically. I am now here in Vancouver as I have lots of investor clients here in Vancouver that I help place in U.S. real estate. If there is a question you may have get back to me. I have one for you, what made you move to Toronto? 

  • Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 23 votes
    9y

    Thanks everyone for the great advice so far! There's no way to predict which way the market will go, so I am being very cautious and will not buy if the property doesn't cash flow. I agree with @Matt Geerts that I wouldn't be overly concerned about prices if the property carries itself and then some. I like the JV idea as I don't have contractor contacts in Toronto.

    @Steve Haight I moved to Toronto for work, and there is a large population of "Vancouver orphans" here as Toronto is Canada's financial center with many head office jobs. I miss the ocean and mountains dearly, but there is an amazing energy and so many more events and fun neighbourhoods here - not to mention the beautiful Victorian houses and crazy-tall condo buildings :) I considered purchasing property in the US as the entry points are so much more accessible, but have no idea to start and read general advice to start in my backyard. Interesting to hear you work with Canadians though!

  • Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2014 · 320 posts · 125 votes
    9y

    @Florence Lee - Welcome to BP! As others have mentioned you need to ensure that you're cash flowing. Toronto is uber hot right now, and you can't rely on appreciation to drive returns for you. If you're interested in BRRR, myself and a bunch of other investors I know in Toronto do these kind of investments. We meet once a month in the Annex and just split the cost of renting the room - $10. We try to get a guest speaker every now and then, but the last two meetings, we've just been analyzing properties together - all BRRR's. Let me know if you'd like to join, the more the merrier!

    Cheers,

    Ming

  • Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    I can vouch for what Ming said about this Annex group as I've been to it a couple of times myself. He and the group leader did an awesome analysis of creating a Toronto tri-plex using the BRRR strategy which showed how it really is possible to get cash-flow in TO. Very detailed info on all aspects of the strategy (anyone not interested in real estate would have been bored to tears! But I mean this as a compliment!!). They've promised to tell us how to finance it in an upcoming meeting.

  • Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2014 · 320 posts · 125 votes
    9y

    @Philip Robbins - Thanks! I'm glad you had a good time. I was worried that it was getting a bit dry. Property analysis can be pretty heavy on the math. Matt is a Engineer and I'm a Comp Sci background, so for us nerds, this stuff is fun. :)

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