FL MORTGAGE BROKER: don't be foolish, use a Buyer's Agent

20 Replies

As a FL Mortgage Broker who has been in the business since the 90s, I've seen almost everything.  I know for a fact that I'm a better negotiator than 95% of all realtors and investors, but when I buy property, I always use a Buyer Agent to purchase Listed Properties.  (FSBOs are a different story)

But one of the things that makes me roll my eyes on the phone is when I hear a so called "Experienced Investor" say they don't use Buyer Agents. "Steve, I work directly with the Listing Agent to get a better deal." I want to say, no, you will not, you just think you will.

Most of the time I can reason with them and get them to use a Buyer's Agent.  But there are the few arrogant, know-it-alls, who are bound and determined to use their outdated, 1990s tactic.  And as their Mortgage Broker, I have a front row seat to watch it all play out from loan Pre-Approval thru to close, and having to clean up messes and un-Foxtrot avoidable issues along this trip thru hell!

Sir, these days the lake doesn't freeze as thick as it use to, its best that you don't run out on it in that way.

..."don't worry about me Steve McRory, you just handle my loan, I got this." 

 Yes Sir, I know you have 10 million in liquid reserves and yes, you are much more successful than me, but I have a Buyer Agent ready if you need one.  

And away they go, stomping out into the post melt down, real estate market, and down thru the ice they go!     

In reality, most of the time, they don't get a better deal and could have easily gotten the same or better deal by using a Buyer's Agent.

It's like watching a train wreck and almost always ends up an I TOLD YOU SO situation!

Oh, so you're going to cut out the buyer agent 3% by going thru the Listing Agent? 

Foolish move here in this 2018 American Real Estate Market.  Most of the time, the investor is going to:

1. take the focus off the bigger target, the sales price savings.

2. upset the listing agent who will cop an attitude when the real estate commission is targeted   

The Listing Agent works for the Seller! And should you know that when the you know what hits the fan, especially when deposits are on the line, you're now faced with the seller and the seller's agent, both in lockstep, speaking with one voice against you, ready for battle!

   

The Florida SEO mortgage troll knows when I'm online.

Good morning @Tom Gimer, glad you chimed in.  

Let's educate the BP Investors about Title Costs, Fees savings available.   Have you heard of this company and similar ones popping up here in 2018?

As a title agent, tell us s the deal with this company  www.EntitleDirect.com

Originally posted by @Steve McRory :

Good morning @Tom Gimer, glad you chimed in.  

Let's educate the BP Investors about Title Costs, Fees savings available.   Have you heard of this company and similar ones popping up here in 2018?

As a title agent, tell us s the deal with this company  www.EntitleDirect.com

They are a national title insurance company... apparently one who can't even get licensed in all 50 states, has only 4 offices, and has issued 50,000 total policies. 

Do you want some fly-by-night issuing your owners title insurance policy?

@tom gimer, okay, so explain to everyone why you as a title agent would be so much better for an extra $2,000 .

And out of all the title policies you've sold over the years how many paid claims have you had that resulted in any payouts?

Also on a $500,000 purchase when there is a purchase loan involved, please give us a preliminary CD (closing disclosure) breakdown of all the title cost and fees your company charges 

Actually hold off on that request I'll start a new topic and you can chime in there @tom gimer

All of these posts appear to be troll posts.

These posts sure are entertaining. Someone hasn't it out for agents, and it seems now maybe title insurance companies? I've done deals with and without my own agent... no idea (and no way to know actually) if I got a better deal had I done the opposite.

I just find it amusing that some people can get so worked up and bent out of shape about how others operate and what they charge.

Trolls .... wish there is a vote down button.

Yes, I strongly suggest always using a Buyer's Agent.   Again, the seller's agent/ Listing Agent works for the Seller and has their best interest, so you need the same on the Buyer's side.

@Albert Ng , do you suggest different than my advice that the Buyer should always use a Buyer's Agent to represent them?

I don't bother making many offers on listed property anymore, but when I do, my initial offers are made solo. I offer 3% less than I would have with an agent for each scenario and the prices are very specific.  They are not balloons with a bunch of zeros. They are also multiple-scenariod.

I state if my offer is countered in any material way I reserve the right to obtain an agent to represent me. How the LA and seller work out the commission is not my affair, but I assure you the net to seller is discussed and I have received flexibility because of it.

Whether I did the absolute best I could solo vs having an agent throwing out a 1 scenario PFA number with a bunch of zeros in it can't be said for certain obviously, I just know I rarely get countered my way and my way was proposed at a price and terms that worked for me.

99% of people will do better with a buyers agent though, I agree and I used to use them. Just plan on being countered multiple times with your PFA balloon float it up there price.

@Steve Vaughan , well written and it seems you have it down pat.   However, when push comes to shove, it's the listing agent and seller against the buyer.

On the lending side, it's so much easier to have a buyer's agent involved(preferably one of my "Preferred" Rebate Realtor partners) vs. relying on the Seller's Listing Agent.

Then, when I have to deal with the listing agent, who often is getting both sides, the entire 6 points in real estate commission, and have to have seller concessions to pay towards my borrower's closing costs, I gotta hear

..."why does the seller need to pay closing costs, are you charging Pointsssss?"

..."what rate are you offering the buyers?"

..."my lenderrr doesn't charge closing costs."

..."I'm going to refer the buyers to my Lenderrr just to double check."

..."my Lenderrr can close in 24 hours, how fast can you close?"

... (and the classic)"did you order the appraisal yet? If not, I know a good appraiser."

So then what do you think I do?  I pull out the Realtor Rebate missiles and type in the target coordinates, then down range they go....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aPvGGvnAGQ

   

  

As a mortgage broker, of course you prefer a buyer agent who don’t question how much you charge, and how high your rate is. You make more money in the fee, and a lot more money from bank’s kick back that way, on the expense of the buyer. A listing agent would try to bring the buyer over to his preferred mortgage broker who give him a kick back, until you offer your own kick back. Similarly, a buyer agent bring the buyer to you not because he is on the buyer side, he does that to get the kick back from you. You guys are all sharks, out for buyers’ blood. Lol, and sharks do compete.

Yes, the listing agent works for the seller, but above all, they work for money. Most of the time, the seller listen to the advise of the listing agent. If two offer of similar price come in, one the listing agent will earn 3%, another he’ll earn 6%. Guess which one he will push the seller toward? I have had listing agent informed me how many offers, and at what price they have received, and almost guarantee me that adding a couple grand on top of the highest offer would win me the deal. You don’t get that kind of “inside knowledge” from a buyer agent. All they do is run comp, (you can run yourself), and push you to offer as high as possible, so they can seal the deal and earn their commission. They then bring you to their preferred (ie provide kick back) broker who will give you a higher rate and charge you more fee than if you shop for the mortgage yourself.

By the way, if a buyer agent has the buyer’s best interest in mind, he would tell the buyer to compare your rate with offers from rocketmortgage and shop around different mortgage brokers for best rate & fee.

@Albert Ng , YES...YES...YES!!   Please shop my rate, shop my loan programs and all mortgage offers!  

Consumers should shop thru their Bank, other Banks, Mortgage Lenders and other Mortgage Brokers!  I welcome the shopping and actually urge my borrowers to shop all things "Mortgage!"

Actually, if I could have my way, I'd want to be the 4th, 5th or even the 10th lending source in their shopping of lenders.   I much prefer to deal with borrowers who are fully acclimated to the reality of their situation here in the 2018 Post DODD FRANK ACT Mortgage Grinder!    

@Albert Ng, you're insight and common sense posts stand out, keep going! 

@Albert Ng , let me add to your post and assist.  In addition to Rocket Mortgage, consumers can contact Quicken Loan, LendingTree, RP Funding (who is also getting into the REALTOR REBATES via Listing.com)

Actually, check this out, here is a Google search of Mortgage Lenders with 3,150,000 results  

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=xWncWrPUG8-usAWc_LnwBg&q=mortgage+lenders&oq=mortgage+lenders&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i20i264k1j0l8.2217.7712.0.11315.27.19.4.2.2.0.310.2899.2j14j2j1.19.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.25.3072.0..46j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i46k1j0i131i20i264k1j0i10k1.0.BgXK1FUzg8Q

 only thing is @Albert Ng, how many Credit Inquiry hits do you suggest borrowers sacrifice

Originally posted by @Steve McRory :

@Steve Vaughan, well written and it seems you have it down pat.   However, when push comes to shove, it's the listing agent and seller against the buyer.

On the lending side, it's so much easier to have a buyer's agent involved(preferably one of my "Preferred" Rebate Realtor partners) vs. relying on the Seller's Listing Agent.

Then, when I have to deal with the listing agent, who often is getting both sides, the entire 6 points in real estate commission, and have to have seller concessions to pay towards my borrower's closing costs, I gotta hear

..."why does the seller need to pay closing costs, are you charging Pointsssss?"

..."what rate are you offering the buyers?"

..."my lenderrr doesn't charge closing costs."

..."I'm going to refer the buyers to my Lenderrr just to double check."

..."my Lenderrr can close in 24 hours, how fast can you close?"

... (and the classic)"did you order the appraisal yet? If not, I know a good appraiser."

So then what do you think I do?  I pull out the Realtor Rebate missiles and type in the target coordinates, then down range they go....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aPvGGvnAGQ

   

Glad you try and get your borrowers rebates and concessions.  That's cool!

A couple things you said that I don't get though.  You said it's so much easier to have a buyers agent involved vs relying on the listing agent. Relying on them for what?  The loan is between my lender and I.  I keep my lender updated by forwarding via e-mail the completed addenda/amends as each stage is completed plus title updates and timelines.   What do the agents have to do with the loan process if you are kept updated?  

Instead of trying to apply realtor rebate missiles and messing around, I've asked for my closing costs, seller assists and concessions up front in my PSA on my own.  If I feel it's the LA and seller 'against' me, I'll just let it die and get back to my nap.  Even though I have the right to get an agent if my offer is materially countered, I usually don't bother.  I need another stupid house like a hole in the head and definitely won't work with jerk sellers or their agents.

Anyway, I still like that you attempt to get rebates for your borrowers.

@Steve Vaughan , the majority of investors are not as proficient as you seem to be, so it makes for an extra 3 to 4 mo ride in a Clown Car Full of Horror with a know-it-all borrower who does things 1/2 back aszwards, causing you both to invested a lot of unnecessary extra time and effort cleaning up avoidable mess after mess, here in the 2018 Post Dodd Frank Act/ TRID Grinder! 

Cash Buyer?  Well that is a completely different animal.

With commercial real estate, you are at a distinct disadvantage if you bring a buyers broker in most cases...or you have to pay your broker the commission.

Another reason, ESPECIALLY for self employed or credit challenged borrower/ buyers, to use a buyer's agent is to keep the Listing Agent in the dark about their situation and inability to qualify for what the Listing Agent's..."Preferred" lender can't offer.

Since I deal with so many self-employed borrowers who need a Stated Income ALT loan program and borrowers who've had recent credit issues (i.e. BKs, SS, Foreclosures ), more often than not, when they try to secure a contact on property by going thru the Listing Agent, they end u[p showing all their cards and lose the home almost every time! 

Why, because the Listing Agent can then probe the buyer to get info and/or after their "Preferred" lender sees the buyer's situation and has no solution for a mortgage, believe me, that buyer is "out like the fat kid in 5th grade dodge ball!"     

Keep your cards close to your chest and use a Buyer's Agent! 

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