Amazon HQ2 - REI Opportunity?
Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 131 posts · 62 votes
Afternoon BP,
After news broke of Amazon moving forward on finding a new HQ, I got really excited for the possibility of a new/increased opportunity in a new area. I currently own and rent in Central Florida, but wouldn't mind investing elsewhere if the opportunity was right.
I lived in Seattle for 2 years and saw (have seen) what Amazon/Microsoft did not only for the job market, but rent as well.
I know the Triangle in NC was thrown around as a hopeful location, but it's far too early to tell where it's going.
My question to the community is where/when do you really start to dig into the surrounding area that will become the new site and how do you as an investor stay up to date on what's happening with a big build like an Amazon HQ2?
I really liked this article about Pittsburgh vying for Amazon's attention.
https://www.nextpittsburgh.com/latest-news/amazon-become-one-pittsburghs-biggest-employers/
With the fact that Uber, Google, Microsoft, Apple and Autodesk already have strongholds here, thanks in part to Carnegie Mellon University's AI developments, I can see our city welcoming Amazon's 2nd HQ. Amazon is already here with a fulfillment/distribution center and our Mayor, Bill Peduto, is poised to recommend several sites that could accommodate Amazon's requirements: software development talent, near an airport of which we have Pittsburgh Int'l Airport, highway systems and while the city itself houses 306,500 people the greater metro area of 2.36 million is well within Amazon's 1mil. requirement. Pittsburgh is also poised to add incentives besides having a variety of available sites, to tax breaks/grants and workforce training not to mention that Pittsburgh is a hub for robotic, technical and manufacturing advancements. Since we have the talent, the land and the commitment to welcome Amazon's vision, I see Pittsburgh a strong candidate for it's future investment.
@Joel Owens , since you know what it is, you can always check with the city what kind of permits have been pulled and by whom and what for.
Somehow I just can't see Amazon choosing Dallas as it's 2nd HQ...Dallas has really awful weather, I imagine Amazon would want a more desirable place for its employees.
Have you even been to Dallas? Why do you think the weather is awful? Its got a couple of months that are hot, its got a ton of sunny days, the winters are very mild.
I've never lived in Dallas but I've visited Dallas a number of times. I have a cousin with attended college there. For me, Dallas is just a big city with a lot to do and see but not what I would consider a beautiful/charming city (same problem I have with Atlanta) and I'm not a fan of 100+ degree weather with the humidity (natural disasters are up for debate). If I were given a choice between Seattle and Dallas, I would definitely choose Seattle but I guess not a lot of people like the rain and grey skies either. It would be interesting to do a poll of graduates from the top Computer Science programs in the country and find out where they want to live in.
Somehow I just can't see Amazon choosing Dallas as it's 2nd HQ...Dallas has really awful weather, I imagine Amazon would want a more desirable place for its employees.
Have you even been to Dallas? Why do you think the weather is awful? Its got a couple of months that are hot, its got a ton of sunny days, the winters are very mild.
I've never lived in Dallas but I've visited Dallas a number of times. I have a cousin with attended college there. For me, Dallas is just a big city with a lot to do and see but not what I would consider a beautiful/charming city (same problem I have with Atlanta) and I'm not a fan of 100+ degree weather with the humidity (natural disasters are up for debate). If I were given a choice between Seattle and Dallas, I would definitely choose Seattle but I guess not a lot of people like the rain and grey skies either. It would be interesting to do a poll of graduates from the top Computer Science programs in the country and find out where they want to live in.
Dallas has been one of the biggest destinations for graduates from the University of Illinois, which by most accounts is and has been one of the top 2 or3 computer science/EE programs in the country. Texas Instruments is based here and the engineering group for many years was run by UofI grad and Nobel prize winner Jack Kilby.
It is also a super common destination for University of Texas grads another top 5 program in addition to A&M and other schools.
There is a ton of tech/tellecom already in Dallas between Lockheed, Raytheon, L3, Sabre, and a ton of others.
Yes Dallas isn't for everyone, but you know what, neither is Seattle or Silicon valley.
BTw...I know you haven't ever been to South dallas and looked back from the Trinity at the Dallas skyline, its very scenic, one of the best skylines in the country. And one of these days it will be better utilized, but Dallas has the largest urban forest/park of any city in the country and is 12-15x's the size of central park.
Dallas has not had an issue with attracting top talent for other tech companies, I find it a bit arrogant when those who live on the coasts assume the middle states are rubes and talent doesn't want to move there.
Its one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country, and a large portion of that is high tech, high skilled labor.
Not everyone wants to cram themselves into a small house to live under clouds and rain for 3/4ths the year. Dallas has a lot more affordability and has access to every one of the activities as any other major city.
Dallas is one of the FEW cities who CAN attract enough talent for such a large company to place itself here.
I would think that with one HQ on the westcoast, they'd choose their 2nd HQ in the eastern time zone, as it'd mportant for international business.
I'm not referring to cold weather and snowstorms, I'm referring more to hurricanes and flooding
I didn't see this until now....
You realize that Dallas is 232 miles from Houston right? I really think you dont know much about Dallas.
I'm not referring to cold weather and snowstorms, I'm referring more to hurricanes and flooding
Then you must be thinking of Houston. We don't get hurricanes here, and flooding is probably no worse than any other city.
Hmm maybe, I thought Dallas had problems with flooding too but I guess Hurricane Harvey didn't really affect it? I thought there was something a couple of years ago, I remember people at my office discussing about how bad the weather is in Dallas and it just stuck with me. Maybe it was just the overall humidity. Oh well, I'll do more research next time.
Humidity?
Dallas isn't all that humid. Once again you are thinking about Houston.
Dallas is a lot less humid than where I grew up in central Illinois, and its a low less humid than say Chicago or Stl.
All of that not withstanding, I think all of this comes down to where can Amazon get the most money/incentives and still be able to set up shop. I would be shocked if they put anything on the west coast, since they already have a strong presence on the West Coast with Seattle.
I would think they would go with a growing state that provides them access to politicians. I think they would be looking for places with great access to airports, growing metro areas, etc.
My guess is they end up in Atlanta.
I'm not referring to cold weather and snowstorms, I'm referring more to hurricanes and flooding
Then you must be thinking of Houston. We don't get hurricanes here, and flooding is probably no worse than any other city.
Hmm maybe, I thought Dallas had problems with flooding too but I guess Hurricane Harvey didn't really affect it? I thought there was something a couple of years ago, I remember people at my office discussing about how bad the weather is in Dallas and it just stuck with me. Maybe it was just the overall humidity. Oh well, I'll do more research next time.
Humidity?
Dallas isn't all that humid. Once again you are thinking about Houston.
Dallas is a lot less humid than where I grew up in central Illinois, and its a low less humid than say Chicago or Stl.
All of that not withstanding, I think all of this comes down to where can Amazon get the most money/incentives and still be able to set up shop. I would be shocked if they put anything on the west coast, since they already have a strong presence on the West Coast with Seattle.
I would think they would go with a growing state that provides them access to politicians. I think they would be looking for places with great access to airports, growing metro areas, etc.
My guess is they end up in Atlanta.
Well I've lived in Denver and New Mexico for a number of years so I do have experience living in the middle of the country and I'm not from the west coast originally , I just fell in love with the Pacific Northwest when I first moved there so I decided to move back. I'm originally from the north east and I've also lived in Atlanta (which I didn't care for). I really liked the weather in Denver, New Mexico was a bit dry but has over 300 Days of sunshine a year and is quite a charming place to live in and I prefer it to Atlanta. Honestly, I think Amazon should pick a place like Denver (Due to its outdoor activities like hiking, skiing etc that's very attractive for young professionals) or the northeast like Boston with its rich history and good public transportation system. For me personally, there's nothing attractive about Dallas and it's not one of my top destinations to move to (neither is Houston) but I think we can agree to disagree? It doesn't really matter what we think anyway, Amazon will probably end up picking a place that no one's expecting.
I wonder why they'd want to go to a big city that already has expensive real estate and terrible traffic?
I'd think "quality of life" will be a deciding factor. Not too far from the mountains, the coast, or a lake. Clean fresh air, beautiful green trees.
I'm betting the South East has a good chance.
Not sure if this site allows betting, but this would be the mother of all bets. Where will amazon build hq2? Besos is a pretty liberal guy, he’s out to change not just shopping but the world as well. Now they, liberals already own the coastal states so my bet is a flyover state.
Ha... Mother of all bets? Good luck getting bets on here. BP is a community of investors not gamblers. You'd be hard pressed to find them betting on appreciation.
So what are the odds Dallas gets it?
Cheers... Immanuel
This is my opinion, remember m looking at this from a political prospective because I think for Besos is bout more than money. In fact my bet is on Texas. Because Texas with its distinctive culture and its size, is a very influential state in the country n it tilts to the right n liberals don’t like competition, so they would love to have Texas go the way of NY and CA, they would love other states too but Texas is the big prize. I don’t meant to get to political but I just think that for guys like Besos n the other guys at apple n Google. Their ambitions are way beyond just money.
this was a great read, Lots of good points.
I feel its not a matter of real estate prices, traffic, or local culture. When you are a monster,like amazon, all of these concerns can be augmented. Cities can offer to build toll roads (happened in Houston) offset taxes on real estate prices, and - the foot print amazon brings - it will change local culture!
Just my Thoughts.
This is my opinion, remember m looking at this from a political prospective because I think for Besos is bout more than money. In fact my bet is on Texas. Because Texas with its distinctive culture and its size, is a very influential state in the country n it tilts to the right n liberals don’t like competition, so they would love to have Texas go the way of NY and CA, they would love other states too but Texas is the big prize. I don’t meant to get to political but I just think that for guys like Besos n the other guys at apple n Google. Their ambitions are way beyond just money.
Interesting idea. Texas, while still solidly a red state, is not as red as it used to be. The population inflow is actually changing the demographics of the state. HQ2 could really give a boost to that trend.
Has anyone heard the actual location for Amazon? Saint Louis was mentioned as a possible location a month or so back. Across the river for Saint Louis is a warehouse and shipping park just off I 270 by Edwardsville, IL. It is already a shipping hub with hundreds of warehouses. The housing in Granite City, Pontoon Beach, Cahokia and other areas west of Illinois Route 157 is all lower cost housing which could be a boon for landlords and home buyers as well. Cahokia is just across the river from downtown Saint Louis and is chock full of 3/1 National homes on a slab that can be had very reasonably.
To my knowledge Amazon has not made a decision. Here is the latest predictions.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/these-cities-may-win-war-for-amazons-new-headquarters.html
@George Skidis - I haven't heard a decision yet, but I recently read a Forbes article that suggests it's unlikely that they'll chose a metro area with a population less than 4 million. The St. Louis metro area falls short of that at 2.8MM.
http://fortune.com/2017/10/18/amazon-hq2-top-citie...
The article also mentions that the 50,000 jobs Amazon HQ2 will bring will be skilled people with average annual salaries of more than $100K. So I wouldn't think those employees will be seeking housing in lower cost areas. But I agree there could still be opportunity with lower cost housing thanks to Amazon-related business and additional service workers that the influx of Amazon people will likely require.
Personally, I'm not very confident that Amazon will choose Saint Louis... but I'm hopeful!
I'm not referring to cold weather and snowstorms, I'm referring more to hurricanes and flooding
Then you must be thinking of Houston. We don't get hurricanes here, and flooding is probably no worse than any other city.
Hmm maybe, I thought Dallas had problems with flooding too but I guess Hurricane Harvey didn't really affect it? I thought there was something a couple of years ago, I remember people at my office discussing about how bad the weather is in Dallas and it just stuck with me. Maybe it was just the overall humidity. Oh well, I'll do more research next time.
Dallas has very mild weather. Not sure what you're thinking of.
Things have changed. I no longer think Dallas is the front runner. There is now a campaign by Amazon insiders to block Texas from being considered. They are pointing to efforts by Governor Greg Abbott and Attorney General Ken Paxton to limit or reverse the Supreme Court rulings on gay marriage as evidence that Texas is not a good cultural fit.
I am now thinking Atlanta or Denver.
Things have changed. I no longer think Dallas is the front runner. There is now a campaign by Amazon insiders to block Texas from being considered. They are pointing to efforts by Governor Greg Abbott and Attorney General Ken Paxton to limit or reverse the Supreme Court rulings on gay marriage as evidence that Texas is not a good cultural fit.
I am now thinking Atlanta or Denver.
It will be interesting to see if Amazon gives feedback to high-ranking contenders which don't get selected. For example, if they were to publicly state that Texas was a non-starter because of a discriminatory environment, it might send ripples throughout a state that prides itself on being business-friendly.
@Paul B. I think it would be great if they gave as much feedback as possible to as many places as possible.
@Paul B. I think it would be great if they gave as much feedback as possible to as many places as possible.
Me too. But if the decision boils down to whoever gives them the most money, then I would hate to see other cities conclude that they need to step up their corporate give-away game so they don't lose the next one.
On the other hand, if an area decides to do some soul-searching and works to address the reasons they lost (*), in order to encourage more business development for everyone, without just handing free money or other preferential status to individual companies, then losing Amazon may turn out to be a blessing in the long run.
(*) Examples: Reducing unnecessary regulation and bureaucracy in areas not known for being business friendly, or fighting discrimination in areas not known for being "inclusive", and so on...
To avoid starting another thread, I'll stick with updating this one...
News from this morning is they've narrowed it down to 20 cities. To be honest I'm surprised by some. Nashville for example in no way checks off the public transportation box and the highway infrastructure is already showing stress from the rapid influx over the last couple of years.
In terms of REI, a lot of the cities seem relatively low cost ( aside from NY, DC, Miami, LA, and Chicago) for an investor based off of what I've seen on BP. Keep in mind I live in Orlando and have only invested in Central Florida as of 2018, so take that comment for what it's worth.
Now that there is an updated list... what are your thoughts?
In a shocking turn of events, Atlanta, Dallas and Austin made the list.
In all seriousness, I thought Orlando would be a good spot with their airport and emerging tech scene. Felt like a better fit than Miami.