Hot water baseboard heaters (gas)-Keep or install ductwork?

Question

House is in a B+ neighborhood. Has a hot water baseboard heat (gas) and no ductwork. No central AC. Located in Colorado. July/August can be quite hot. 1/3 of the rental listings in town have central AC, the rest do not. Not looking to drop $10k+ on HVAC.

-Do I leave the baseboard hot water system in place (reliable, efficient) and dont add central AC?

-Do I add central AC? And if I'm adding ductwork for AC, then should I just switch to forced air heating? What do you do with all that copper pipe?! Concerns about ductwork taking up ceiling space in the finished basement....

-Minisplits, thoughts? Is there such a thing as a minisplit that does AC only?

Trying to figure out if I need to pony up the money to add AC or not while the basement is unfinished and renovations will be going on.

JD Martin · Answer

Long term, you are better off biting the bullet, install your ductwork and your central heat & air.

In my area, there's no way a B+ neighborhood property doesn't have central heat & air. You're not going to hardly rent C class housing around here without it, forget about anything better. 10k on HVAC is probably a drop in the bucket if you think about the property as a long-term return generator, if it's a long-term rental for you, or even if it is a flip.

Over the years one of the big things I learned about rental rehabs: don't be cheap. I'm not saying spend dumb money or add dumb stuff when not warranted, but not taking care of the basics during a rehab is a bad strategy. Here's one of my own examples: I had a house that was in great shape but had a late 50's bathroom, complete with late 50's false tile (plastic) all over the bathroom, including the shower. All of it in great shape, no damaged tile or anything. Debated whether we should just go ahead and rehab the bathroom while it was empty, but decided to just do the vanity and mirror since the bathroom was in such good shape. Fast forward to lousy tenant, who apparently didn't understand the concept of cracking a window to let the humidity out (no bath fan, remember 1950's). Right when they were getting ready to leave - we let them out a month early because they were broke - they complained about tiles falling off the walls. Well, what happened was the massive humidity loosened probably 50% of the tiles, exposing the cement board/plaster product below and letting a bunch of tiles fall off the wall, where huge chunks of adhesive were stuck in the plaster. No good way to fix. Ended up down almost 2 months while the bathroom was torn out and redone. If we had just redone the bathroom during the rehab, when it was already empty, we would have lost no time - it could have been done while other jobs were going. So the 2 months down cost us $3k in lost rent, and we still spent the money on fixing the bathroom.

Karissa Sampson · Answer

In the event someone else takes a look at this thread in the future and finds the updates helpful,

We had an HVAC tech and given the expense of adding all the ductwork for 3 separate units and having 3 separate systems (3 condensers, 3 furnaces, etc.) the much more affordable option was to go with 3 mini-split systems with cold-weather heat pumps since this is Colorado.

I'm happy with this option. Pros of the mini-split: Quiet, efficient, no ductwork to protrude into the downstairs unit's ceiling/less basement feeling, no fire-blocking shenanigans for the ductwork, and it performs both heating and cooling.

Karissa Sampson · Answer

So, I ended up polling some friends about the AC and most said they would pay more for central AC and would reconsider renting a place without it. I'll probably install it now while the renos going on.

Russell W. · Answer

I'm in agreement that you add ducted heat/AC. I had a similar scenario in one of my properties. Originally the apartments were heated with hot water baseboard radiators and tenants used window AC units. I added ducted AC because it's standard for my market / tenant class. It didn't make sense not to add furnaces while doing that work (even though the boilers were still fully functional) so I did. Boilers can last a very long time if properly maintained, they're efficient as you've mentioned, and they're quiet (an overlooked benefit). So I actually left the boilers & radiators in place, shut off the gas valve at the furnaces, and the apartments are still heated by the boilers. All that said, boilers can be expensive to repair/replace, so when that time does inevitably come, I'll just have the tenants switch to the forced air furnaces and get rid of the boilers at that point.

To your concerns about the ductwork in the basement, depending on the layout & size of the area, you could potentially conceal some of the ducts between the floor joists overhead. When the duct run needs to go perpendicular to the joists it will obviously need to be flush with the ceiling, but you can place that run alongside a wall. That run can be oval duct which reduces the depth so you get a couple less inches of soffit encroaching into your headroom. Just some thoughts

Colleen F. · Answer

@Karissa Sampson I would just make sure the people you polled are similar to those you would rent to.   Similar income etc. Ask a PM in your area.

Karissa Sampson · Answer

Thank you all for your thoughtful advice. We dont really have humidity issues in colorado even in the basements and this one is certainly bone dry. I was leaning toward the mini splits to avoid ductwork especially in the downstairs unit and because I was planning to mini split the garage conversion anyways. I'll have HVAC come out and evaluate the property. Good quotes are great. Also-structural engineers are worth their charges in gold.

Colleen F. · Answer

@Karissa Sampson depending on the layout a minisplit could be better then doing ductwork. Depends on how separate your spaces are and how many heads you would need.  Your really need to talk to an HVAC guy who knows how easy/hard duct work will be to install in your house and compare that to minisplits. If the downstairs unit has any humidity issues I would say do minisplits on that unit if you can.

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

I agree with adding AC being an absolute must! But why not the Mini-Split systems? They may cost more or they may not, depending on the cost to run the ducts - AND repair the resulting damage.

I'd get some solid quotes from a licensed HVAC Contr. to do both and then do some more research on long - term payback before just going with the old gas heaters.....

Kate Nixon Taylor · Answer

In Massachusetts, it's not common to have AC centralized and we just use window AC units or I've seen those wall mounted AC units that work really well. I saw a lot of the marketing pointing out that ductwork wasn't needed, so that could help avoid the basement feel. It depends on the market and what people are used to. I am not sure what renters or buyers expect in Colorado, so my suggestion may not be helpful. I wish you the best and hope you find a solution!

Karissa Sampson · Answer

I agree that doing the work to install HVAC and ductwork now while the basement is unfinished is ideal. I am completing an up/down duplex conversion and want to minimize overhead ductwork and "basement feel" in the downstairs unit. I also would like to have the tenants responsible for all utilities, so I would need to install two seperate HVAC units (2 furnaces, condensers for AC etc.) In Colorado, its only really hot enough to want AC for 3 months of the year. I'm trying to think if there are some alternatives to going full-bore for both units and having different HVAC setups for each unit. Any other thoughts out there?

Hot water baseboard heaters (gas)-Keep or install ductwork?

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