electrical problem
My tenant called me last night and said that her daughter plugged in an iron in her room and that it somehow set off the circuit and there is no electricity in her room. She said that they unplugged everything in her room and tried flipping the circuit back, but it just keeps flipping back and they can't get the electricity in her room back on. What do I need to look for in order to resolve the issue?
Best guess, something melted and you've got a dead short in that receptacle. Make sure there is no power to the receptacle, pull it out and look for melty bits. After that, it could be melted wires under a pinched staple in the wall, a device in another room that is on that circuit still tripping it, circuit breaker itself could be faulty (rare but it happens) or any number of odd-ball things. I'd start at the receptacle the iron was plugged into, after that you're probably going to need an electrician to trouble shoot the issue.
Is that an expense that I'm supposed to incur or is the tenant responsible?
Originally posted by @Benjamin Kanevsky:
Is that an expense that I'm supposed to incur or is the tenant responsible?
Depends what your lease says but I'd fix it myself or pay someone to get it fixed, preferably today. If the electrical system is functioning properly, why would an appliance trip it? Short answer, it shouldn't and it's your issue to get it fixed ASAP (think customer service and retention). This is a cost of doing business as a landlord.
@Benjamin Kanevsky I think it would be pretty unreasonable to expect your tenant to bear the cost repairing a electrical problem in your property.
Like @Troy Sheets mentioned it is likely a dead short somewhere in the circuit, could be as simple as the hot leg on the recepticle shorting to the grounded metal box (assuming its a metal box), Or it could be a pinched staple or melted wire, hundreds of other possibilities
If its a melted wire you have a bigger problem, there should be no possible way a standard gauge wire could carry enough current to melt the wire. The circuit breaker should trip way before the current gets that high. BTW its not the wire that melts its the insulation on the wire that melts, which causes the wires to short.
In any case it doesn't sound like your qualified to DIY this issue, I would call an electrician to evaluate the problem. Electricity isn't something that should be taken lightly.
I would try replacing the circuit breaker first
Originally posted by @John Rooster:
I would try replacing the circuit breaker first
.... but don't throw in a 20amp to mask a more serious problem.
a bad GFI or outlet can quickly become a fire hazard.
We just replaced a bad (Made in China) GFI that was literally cooking behind the wall & it was a new install when the home was completely re-wired several years ago.
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I'd replace the breaker, I don't suggest you try as it seems you aren't comfortable with electrons running through wires. I also don't know what your code requirements are, a decent handyman type can do this, but an electrician is likely required. I'd also say it's not the tenant's fault, that was a reasonable thing to do.
My suggestion here is to have your circuits tested as well, a meter does that plugged into each outlet to check that the circuits are in phase. A circuit is out of phase when wires are reversed at switches or outlets an the circuit is not feed or charged properly and can cause GFICs to fail and trip breakers with higher amp appliances. Call an electrician. :)
Originally posted by @Troy Sheets:
If the electrical system is functioning properly, why would an appliance trip it? Short answer, it shouldn't and it's your issue to get it fixed ASAP (think customer service and retention). This is a cost of doing business as a landlord.
This is nowhere near an accurate statement. A breaker tripping when a circuit is overloaded is precisely how it is designed to work. And overloading is common, especially when girls get to plugging in hair dryers/curling irons and other devices that use electricity to provide heat, as all of those appliances have high current draw. Now, the fact that it keeps tripping after you've unplugged it is definitely an indication that all is not right, but good advice has been given here regarding that, including yours to get it fixed ASAP.
There is the possibility that the tenant has not reset the breaker properly. Make sure to switch the breaker to the full off position and then turn it on. Sometimes breakers do not trip completely to the off position. Also but unlikely, check to see if a GFIC outlet is on the line. If a bathroom is adjacent to the bedroom, the outlets may have been wire on the same line.
Originally posted by @JT Spangler:
Originally posted by @Troy Sheets:
If the electrical system is functioning properly, why would an appliance trip it? Short answer, it shouldn't and it's your issue to get it fixed ASAP (think customer service and retention). This is a cost of doing business as a landlord.
This is nowhere near an accurate statement. A breaker tripping when a circuit is overloaded is precisely how it is designed to work. And overloading is common, especially when girls get to plugging in hair dryers/curling irons and other devices that use electricity to provide heat, as all of those appliances have high current draw. Now, the fact that it keeps tripping after you've unplugged it is definitely an indication that all is not right, but good advice has been given here regarding that, including yours to get it fixed ASAP.
You're correct, I misspoke, what I should have said is the tenant most likely didn't cause the underlying issue, not that the iron shouldn't have tripped the breaker. My apologies.
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Obviously we have some electrical guys here, good stuff.
I should have said too, to check the panel and see what kind of breakers you have, newer ones snap in from the front, you can take the cover off the front and see, don't touch anything! Visually inspect the breaker for damage, melted or smoked sides, if it appears damaged put the cover back on, make sure it's flipped off and call an electrician. You can flip the main breaker cutting off charging the bar to all breakers, that takes some pressure to flip it. If the breaker just snaps in, grasp the front plastic part of the breaker and pull it straight out, about 10 lbs pressure, it should snap out easily with steady pressure pulling, if it doesn't, leave it alone. Call an electrician. If it does pop out, put the cover back on, then go get it replaced. Snapping a new one in is the reverse, may take some pressure to put it in and do it evenly, straight in.
Some screw in wires, just leave them alone, make a call.
I've always used Square D brand boxes, panels and breakers, some don't like them, but they are homeowner friendly and they work and they may be cheaper, they are popular contractor grade equipment.
As a landlord you should have some tools in your bag. Get a decent multi-meter, they are not expensive and read the instructions and/or ask the electrical guys at the box store/lumber yards on how to read it. You can check your outlets as to being in phase. If they are not, ahhh, call an electrician!
Landlords that learn small construction, plumbing and electrical skills will be more profitable, it's part of owning units. :)
Originally posted by @Edward Burns:
There is the possibility that the tenant has not reset the breaker properly. Make sure to switch the breaker to the full off position and then turn it on. Sometimes breakers do not trip completely to the off position. Also but unlikely, check to see if a GFIC outlet is on the line. If a bathroom is adjacent to the bedroom, the outlets may have been wire on the same line.
Good call Edward, that's the most likely issue, that the tenant if her resetting the breaker properly.
Originally posted by @Troy Sheets:
Originally posted by @JT Spangler:
Originally posted by @Troy Sheets:
If the electrical system is functioning properly, why would an appliance trip it? Short answer, it shouldn't and it's your issue to get it fixed ASAP (think customer service and retention). This is a cost of doing business as a landlord.
This is nowhere near an accurate statement. A breaker tripping when a circuit is overloaded is precisely how it is designed to work. And overloading is common, especially when girls get to plugging in hair dryers/curling irons and other devices that use electricity to provide heat, as all of those appliances have high current draw. Now, the fact that it keeps tripping after you've unplugged it is definitely an indication that all is not right, but good advice has been given here regarding that, including yours to get it fixed ASAP.
You're correct, I misspoke, what I should have said is the tenant most likely didn't cause the underlying issue, not that the iron shouldn't have tripped the breaker. My apologies.
Definitely not apologies necessary! Just wanted to make sure accurate information is out there. :)
Since it sounds like you may have limited knowledge of electrical a licensed and bonded electrician might be best to use.
You need to make sure you have the right size type of panel electrical box and brand first. Then you have to check and make sure of breakers have been replaced or added that the right ones were used and the wiring is correct. Again an electrician can help with that.
If a fire breaks out I have actually heard of insurance companies denying the claim when it was found improper breakers or the wrong ones were used for replacement. People will put any brand in to save money but it's not the wisest choice. You have to think more of long term protection with a rental and not the cheapest cost today which might cost you ten times more down the road.
You can get a cheap plug tester and put in the receptacle. It should light up the test lights even if wired improperly as receiving power. When you flip the breaker that and that plug light goes out you have found the circuit. Do not assume that a marked panel is written correctly for that breaker or that everything is on the same circuit in the room.
Usually it's a bad plug where the contacts are breaking off or a mis wire when the receptacle was replaced at some point. I have had actual breakers go bad before on a panel so it does happen.
No legal advice.
Yeah I decided to hire an electrician. Have a appointment for 8:30am. Hopefully I don't get raped on the pricing.
Benjamin you pay for the labor. Here they want about 90 to 100 to replace one outlet. I can get a common double plug for 52 cents at home depot. If I need the cover plate a little bit more but all in for under a buck with tax.
If you know what you are doing it takes about 5 to 10 minutes tops. A GFCI outlet is more expensive and you might be 5 bucks or so into the job and a little more wires.
If you do not know anything about electrical or even know a little the electrician might be the best bet.
Yeah I understand. Thanks for all the great input.i have a friend moving down here in a month or two that's pretty handy. We are partnering up on a few deals and I'll try to learn some basics from him.
The wire behind the outlet where the iron was plugged in melted a little and ended up shorting out. As soon as he replaced the wire the breaker was flipped on and everything is back to normal. Charged me $45. All is well that ends well. Thanks again everyone for your input.
Keep that electrician's contact information and continue to use him where needed because you got off very cheaply. Most electrical contractors would bill a minimum of 1 hour (which is fair) at about $90-100/hr.
I had something very similar happen at my house. My old printer would occasionally freeze up and I would have to unplug it and then plug it back in. It froze while I was printing something and I very violently unplugged and then shoved the plug back in. There was no power in that outlet or down the line from it.
The black wire broke where it wraps around the terminal. It was an easy fix That is the first place I would look.
you should go on youtube and learn about this stuff beforehand. you don't have to necessarily be handy but you want to know what's generally involved.
all in all, sounds like you found a great electrician in the future. most people think electricians are very expensive; in reality, they're a commodity.