When the contractor is over the timeline, by A LOT.

Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 60 posts · 20 votes

I’m on my first flip, and the official start for renovations was November 1st 2018. I was told it would take 12 weeks to complete the project and now we are well past that and still having issues. All of a sudden I need a new electric panel, and as of today “something” is wrong with the plumbing, and little things that I could (and should at this point being that I’m so frustrated) just do myself are taking too long.

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My questions: How do I expedite things, and how do I prevent this in the future? I’m very new so go easy on me. I have made too many mistakes to count and have beat myself up worse than anyone else could.

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Off topic: is having panic attacks a normal side effect of real estate investing? Asking for a friend.

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Jared W SmithBusiness Member

Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 682 posts · 476 votes

Originally posted by @Mandi Martinez:

@Brian Pulaski ok that is good to know. See he actually created the SOW which in hindsight is not as detailed as it should have been but it did not have an electric panel.

They are close to being done. It really is just little things that are incomplete. They are dragging their feet and I’m not sure why? Don’t they want to get payed? As far as the plumbing : last week it was the toilet, then three days ago it was the shower draining, and today there were people under the kitchen sink.

First thing's first, you never let the Contractor create the scope of work. And if they do, you should be reviewing it against the property to make sure everything is included. Usually a set of engineer or architect plans would detail everything that is needed and the Contractor would price the project off these.

It's a huge conflict of interest for him to determine his own work and fee and you being a novice, he likely left these items out of the SOW so he can now charge you for it and say "oh it wasn't in the original SOW." No way a good Contractor wouldn't know by his first walk through if a toilet or sink needs to be replaced. Quite suspect if you ask me.

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Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
Did you make any changes ? Did hidden problems pop up ? These will add cost and time to a project
0 Reply
Mandi Martinez
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 60 posts · 20 votes
7y
@Matthew Paul no changes have been made. The electric panel I feel is something that he knew about and now all of a sudden it needs to be put in (and paid out of my pocket), and same with the “all of a sudden” plumbing issue. I don’t know the exact process but I assume plumbing and electric is one of the first things to get straight not the last?
•I just don’t know how to stop the madness and just finish already. And how do I prevent it from happening again? Can I put some type of repercussions saying if over the timeline the contractor pays a fee?
0 Reply
Nick Rutkowski
Rental Property Investor · Ithaca, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Mandi Martinez
Did you set deadlines and a scope of work? Contractors are the bane of the investors existence. If you don’t take control, they’ll take control of you. (From experience)
6 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
7y
Have a talk with the contractor and ask for a list of what is left to do based on the initial scope of work that you agreed to. Tell him you need everything done before the end of the month.
Do you have another person who is knowledgeable about electrical and plumbing for a second opinion? You can also tell him that you can get another person in to deal with those as you need him to finish the original job.
And no your friend should not be having panic attacks.
3 Reply
Mandi Martinez
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 60 posts · 20 votes
7y
@Theresa Harris
Ok thank you.
And the panic attack question was just a joke. Lol! I’m just stressed.
0 Reply
Mandi Martinez
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 60 posts · 20 votes
7y
@Nick Rutkowski we do have a simple contract that states the work will be done in 12 weeks but doesn’t say what would happen if it isn’t done within that time frame. I agree they are quite the migraine. I understand why one uses general contractors but I’m ready to just go in there and start hammering and painting
0 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
7y
@Mandi Martinez
I had renos on a unit take longer than they should have. It didn't help that the renos overlapped with Christmas and that we ended up having to gut the bathroom as there was extensive water damage from a leaking hot water tank (it was damage from before I bought it). There was a lot of work, but it should have taken about 4 weeks as we had everyone lined up. There were weeks where no one was there but us (we did all the painting and tiling). Six weeks in I told the contractors, I was renting the place for the 1st of the month and going to do showings starting in two weeks. It put a fire under them. They were still 2 days late, but the people moving in knew it would be close and were flexible.
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Brian Pulaski
Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mandi Martinez:

@Matthew Paul no changes have been made. The electric panel I feel is something that he knew about and now all of a sudden it needs to be put in (and paid out of my pocket), and same with the “all of a sudden” plumbing issue. I don’t know the exact process but I assume plumbing and electric is one of the first things to get straight not the last?
•I just don’t know how to stop the madness and just finish already. And how do I prevent it from happening again? Can I put some type of repercussions saying if over the timeline the contractor pays a fee?
Here are some things that unless you have a background in renovations/construction you might not know, but the investor/flipper/client creates the SOW for the job and the contractor bids on and performs the agreed to work. If the panel was not in the scope, he shouldn't be replacing. Why is it in need of replacement now?
What are the plumbing issues? Is he close to finishing the main scope?
2 Reply
Frank Geiger
Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2018 · 776 posts · 776 votes
7y
Mandi,
Did you give him all the rehab money? You can fire him and get a new one.
Unfortunately, contractors are bad with timelines. They are providing you a "service". If you emplace a restriction on them by not staying on timeline, they would rather walk away then pay. A reputable GC will not be willing to tarnish their reputation but they will cost more.
Next time you can try making a good contractor a partner. In the agreement, you pay for the house, he takes care of the rehab, then you split the profit. This is a good way to build trust.
Try not to stress. Its unhealthy and whats done is done. You can only move forward. Best of luck.
2 Reply
Marie Holmes
Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 2 votes
7y
The same thing happened to me. Since you have nothing in writing about penalties for missing deadlines all you can do at this point is call him everyday to push him to complete the job. How much did you pay him so far? I suggest if you are flipping the house you should not pay him all at once. Your buyer's inspection will more than likely require additional repairs so hold that money as collateral until you close on the house.
0 Reply
Mandi Martinez
OP
Flipper/Rehabber · Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 60 posts · 20 votes
7y
@Brian Pulaski ok that is good to know. See he actually created the SOW which in hindsight is not as detailed as it should have been but it did not have an electric panel.
They are close to being done. It really is just little things that are incomplete. They are dragging their feet and I’m not sure why? Don’t they want to get payed? As far as the plumbing : last week it was the toilet, then three days ago it was the shower draining, and today there were people under the kitchen sink.
0 Reply
Marie Holmes
Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 2 votes
7y
Another thing is most contractors are working several jobs at once so your property will often be neglected for days even weeks at a time.
1 Reply
Will Mace
Investor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2017 · 27 posts · 29 votes
7y
@Mandi Martinez Remember power comes from knowledge. As you stated you are new, so you may not have the industry/construction knowledge, but I do know that you already know how to ask questions because you came to BP and asked one. I suggest going to your contractor and start asking questions that you need answers to. Get from him IN WRITING what the stated issues are and why they are issues (i.e. code related, decay, etc), including associated costs. Once you have that information you can make reasonable decisions on how to proceed. After you have processed the new knowledge you now have consider going to your contractor and asking him/her how YOU can help them reach your end goal. You will learn something from their response/reaction.......i.e. they'll figure out a solution & help you through it or you will realize it is time to part ways.
Depending on your area a good resource may be your local contractors/builders association. They should be able to provide you with vetted contractors that can consult or assist to reach your goal if needed.
Regardless the outcome, this is invaluable education as it will make you better, stronger, smarter.
Best of luck!
4 Reply
Keith Lyons
Flipper/Rehabber · Clifton, ME · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 12 votes
7y
You con put penalties in your contracts to try and avoid some problems. Just know you’re not alone! just keep looking till you find a good one . Network and ask around who is good. If your pretty new to this it might benefit you to have a home inspection done before the contractors look at it, always get at least two,three is better to give you bids, but a home inspector will give you a good general idea about what needs to be done. Good luck to you
3 Reply
Karen MargraveBusiness Member
Moderator
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
@Mandi Martinez STOP! You need to get control of your job. Don't be a victim. Is the contractor licensed? And what trades is he licensed in? Be sure to verify licensing. How much was the original bid, and what has been paid? Sometimes unexpected issues do come up that take longer and cost more, however if that happens you should be given a change order with all work to approve. But, be sure what you're being charged is justified. Be sure the contractor is licensed for the trades he is performing, because many states require very specific licensing for electrical. Don't pay for work that hasn't been done. Get a bid on plumbing and electrical from other contractors.
3 Reply
Gus Kazek
Real Estate Agent · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 90 posts · 55 votes
7y
@Mandi Martinez I would suggest sitting down with the contractor and asking how much longer do you anticipate to be working? If is an unreasonable amount of time, I would cut the cord with them and and find a real professional. As a current civil engineer, usually a scope of work is needed for any construction related project and a clause that I love to put in is a schedule penalty. So for everyday the contractor goes past the anticipated completion date, a fine we be charged to them to keep them accountable for finishing in a timely manner. I've seen people change contractors half way through projects because the had no written agreement and things were moving slower than they wanted. I'd say go with another contractor from a referral.
1 Reply
Liza B.
Specialist · McAllen, TX · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 23 votes
7y
@Mandi Martinez I am sorry you are going through this. You are not alone, we all have a bad experience one way or the other. Getting a very detailed scope of work, broken down on a weekly basis will be a good start. It should also include what percentage of payment will be given every week, best if you can put a larger percentage of pay on the last week so that there is an incentive to complete the job. Have your contractor agree and sign the scope of work and make sure that if there are any changes, he should submit that in writing (change order) and the additional time he would need to complete. Include in your contract penalties for each day that the work is delayed. Once the work is complete, have them sign Final and Unconditional Waiver of Lien before paying them the last payment to avoid any lien being placed on your property,
0 Reply
Otho Keller
Lewistown, MD · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
@Mandi Martinez
This happened to me last year. I asked for specific dates as to when the rest of the work would be finished. When he didn’t meet the deadline I canceled all contracts and moved on. It was a hassle at the time, but worth it in the end.
0 Reply
Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
Now remember a penalty for the contractor for taking too long can work both ways . In a detailed scope of work the "extras" a contractor will charge for can add up real quick . And every extra and change order will add additional time ( and money ) to the customer .
Building inspectors can and will make you change things that the contractor or the homeowner thought were fine .
Example : Once I did a screened porch , 2 electrical circuits ( add 2 breakers to the panel ) . There were 4 blanks in the panel , no reason to open it . The electrician wired the room , got the wires to the panel and opened it up . It was a mess inside , burnt wires , a real hack job . It needed to be replaced and done right . So a new permit , new panel , more time and more $$$$ for the customer to pay
3 Reply
Brian Ploszay
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
The contract should have a scope of work, time frame and possibly a modest penalty for late work and a mechanism to break the contract. I find that contractors are super important to my business. I often expand my holdings when I connect with a good crew.
3 Reply
Charles Kao
Specialist · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 611 votes
7y
@Mandi Martinez
Until you can hire someone full time this is a part of the business. How much down did you give him? I would say its time to just move
on.
1 Reply
David RobertsonBusiness Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2010 · 757 posts · 778 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mandi Martinez:

All of a sudden I need a new electric panel, and as of today “something” is wrong with the plumbing, and little things that I could (and should at this point being that I’m so frustrated) just do myself are taking too long.
Do you not know WHY you need a new electrical panel or what the plumbing issues are?
If my Contractor told me I needed a new electrical panel, the first question I would ask is WHY?
Once we know the reasons WHY the Contractor needs to replace the panel, we will know if your Contractor is full of 💩...
Unfortunately, sometimes you have to get your hands dirty on projects. I've had to step-in several times and DIY projects myself just to get the project done. As Karen suggested, don't be a victim, take action and get to the bottom of this ASAP.
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Jared W SmithBusiness Member
Architect · Westchester County, NY · Member since 2018 · 682 posts · 476 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mandi Martinez:

@Brian Pulaski ok that is good to know. See he actually created the SOW which in hindsight is not as detailed as it should have been but it did not have an electric panel.
They are close to being done. It really is just little things that are incomplete. They are dragging their feet and I’m not sure why? Don’t they want to get payed? As far as the plumbing : last week it was the toilet, then three days ago it was the shower draining, and today there were people under the kitchen sink.
First thing's first, you never let the Contractor create the scope of work. And if they do, you should be reviewing it against the property to make sure everything is included. Usually a set of engineer or architect plans would detail everything that is needed and the Contractor would price the project off these.
It's a huge conflict of interest for him to determine his own work and fee and you being a novice, he likely left these items out of the SOW so he can now charge you for it and say "oh it wasn't in the original SOW." No way a good Contractor wouldn't know by his first walk through if a toilet or sink needs to be replaced. Quite suspect if you ask me.
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Patrick Fraire
Flipper/Rehabber · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2017 · 155 posts · 118 votes
7y
@Mandi Martinez
When the contractor gives you a time estimate. It is usually best case scenario. If he says twelve weeks tell him you’ll give him 14 weeks but if he goes over that. He will pay Liquidated Damages of $100 per day. They always go over their estimate. It’s hard to stick to because they pick us more work during your job. Hopefully the fear of going over your timeline will make them postpone work until after your job.
For smaller jobs for example if they say 4 weeks. Tell them you’ll give them a $400 bonus do it within 5. Like I said they always go over. If you say you’ll give them a bonus if they do it in the time frame they gave you they will probably back track and say well you know 4-5 weeks. Just give them a little bit of time right off the bat and they will feel like the challenge you gave them is reasonable.
2 Reply
Michael J Callinan
Rental Property Investor · Clinton, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 36 votes
7y
Simple. in your contract with your contractor, put a beginning date and an end date with a clause that has roughly $150 per day late charge owed to you. If other things come up and they legitimately need more time write a change order or an addendum and come up with a new date so that late fee still sticks.
While everyone gets upset and frustrated in this business don't let it ruin your health. A year from now the problems you're experiencing will be a lesson.
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