Looking for insight from experienced fix-and-flippers or rehab-ers.  

We rent out a few properties at this point but recently have gotten approved for a home improvement loan, similar to that of a 203k.

We found a house in the right location - very old in a mountain town.  This house, being from such a long time ago, has some odd quirks about it.  Most of which do not frighten us but the low ceilings caught us off guard - they were not evident in the listing pictures.  Some of the house is fine, but the kitchen for example is ceiling of about 7 feet.  Noticeable but not a deal breaker.  There is a small room with the laundry machines that you have to go through in order to get to the bathroom and the other bedroom - i'm not kidding when i say this doorway sits at about 5 ft height and the room with laundry machines varies between 5 1/2 feet and 6 feet.  Definitely not comfortable for the average person.  We brought a contractor with us to the walk through per the advice of my mortgage guy.  He said there is no way of truly estimating the cost/extent of how to raise that ceiling and its costs until he pokes a few holes and looks.

I'm not sure i can actually do that until we've bid on the house.  So as a not experienced fixer upper at this point, i was hoping for some advice on the coordination of this - how can i estimate the costs in order to put in a bid, to get a more thorough inspection, etc.  Or would you say just estimate high and hope they accept our bid so we can go in and dig around?

Also - has anyone done this type of ceiling expansion?  there is no second level and its hard to tell by the roof and the age of house, if there was an expansion of part of the house at some point.  

Overall, i'm thrilled with the possibilities of this house and its location - and I really want to evaluate this thoroughly but not sure how to calculate this ceiling/roof situation.

Any thoughts?

Much appreciated!!

Sarah

Hi Sarah,

So I've done best case and worst case scenario's of what you are looking at. First off, I'd call a different contractor. If there is no second level on the home, a contractor should be able to walk and or crawl the attic to see how the ceiling joists are framed from above. There's no reason you can't get a bid for what you are asking for. What's lighting like in the kitchen? If it's the florescent light boxes those are usually framed as a sub structure and it should be relatively inexpensive. Just demo, new lighting and drywall. The more expensive situation would involve potentially having to reframe a portion of your roof/ceiling structure

@Sarah Present

Hi Sarah:

This is an interesting one.  Firstly - I'm really tall - about 6'-6" so the low ceilings kind of hit home for me.  I tend to notice them right away.  

I think some terminology is in order.

There's ceiling which most people refer to generally to include what they see.  What's under what they see is made up usually of joists (structural beams).  Where those joists sit is going to be critically important in determining feasibility of what you suggest.  

Unfortunately, there are not often great (feasible) options for raising a those structural beams/ joists.  At least, certainly not for a novice that isn't actively managing this kind of work.  I wouldn't want to take on a project like this if structural members needed to be raised up.  I wouldn't say it's impossible but I'd say it'd be impossible (cost effectively) for instance to push up a joist system that has other substantial things resting on it - which usually is your top plates, your roof structural system, etc.  Again, not impossible but impossible to do it cost effectively.

That said, if your joist system is resting substantially above what you see - it may not be that big of a deal.  You probably know what drop ceiling looks like, and it's simple to push up a tile usually to see what's above- so I'm pretty sure you don't have that going on.

There are other things that might precipitate the ceiling that you see being substantially below the structural joist system, where you have some 'dead space' to work with.  From your post and the info you provided, I'd doubt this was the case - but it's also peculiar to try to 'get in the head' of whoever built the thing with that low of ceilings and door openings!

I'd suggest that you budget VERY high for this work and adjust your bid accordingly.  

Adjusting those ceiling joists up MAY be possible, if the attic is accessible however it'd be a 'different' project that may require engineering.  Is there enough money /upside in the project to keep working on it?

Probably also not a winner as I'm not seeing what you're seeing, but what's below the finished floor?  Depending on what's there perhaps there's a way to build a step or two down in those areas and redo the flooring?

Originally posted by @Sarah Present :

Looking for insight from experienced fix-and-flippers or rehab-ers.  

We rent out a few properties at this point but recently have gotten approved for a home improvement loan, similar to that of a 203k.

We found a house in the right location - very old in a mountain town.  This house, being from such a long time ago, has some odd quirks about it.  Most of which do not frighten us but the low ceilings caught us off guard - they were not evident in the listing pictures.  Some of the house is fine, but the kitchen for example is ceiling of about 7 feet.  Noticeable but not a deal breaker.  There is a small room with the laundry machines that you have to go through in order to get to the bathroom and the other bedroom - i'm not kidding when i say this doorway sits at about 5 ft height and the room with laundry machines varies between 5 1/2 feet and 6 feet.  Definitely not comfortable for the average person.  We brought a contractor with us to the walk through per the advice of my mortgage guy.  He said there is no way of truly estimating the cost/extent of how to raise that ceiling and its costs until he pokes a few holes and looks.

I'm not sure i can actually do that until we've bid on the house.  So as a not experienced fixer upper at this point, i was hoping for some advice on the coordination of this - how can i estimate the costs in order to put in a bid, to get a more thorough inspection, etc.  Or would you say just estimate high and hope they accept our bid so we can go in and dig around?

Also - has anyone done this type of ceiling expansion?  there is no second level and its hard to tell by the roof and the age of house, if there was an expansion of part of the house at some point.  

Overall, i'm thrilled with the possibilities of this house and its location - and I really want to evaluate this thoroughly but not sure how to calculate this ceiling/roof situation.

Any thoughts?

Much appreciated!!

Sarah

 I've done a couple of houses that have that feature. They were sun porches that had been closed in to make a (very small) bedroom or storage space. It was cheaper and easier for the homeowner just to enclose everything. In my situations I simply left them the way it was and priced the property accordingly. Usually these are with older homes and sometimes you don't like what you find when you tear into a wall on an older home. It can get expensive with no upside.

@Todd Rasmussen , @Jim Goebel and Account Closed - thank you for your insightful replies!  It has really helped to have some thought from others who have been more involved with similar scenarios.  

Indeed - this isn't the most promising visual - however, a few things keep me thinking its worth a deeper dive.  This is a mountain town in colorado - an old mining town.  So lots of the buildings are from 1880s.  My aim is to turn it into a vacation rental - keeping that old mining town feel but totally adding modern amenitites and comforts - with gorgeous mountain views.  The ceiling really defies the vision of course.  

To answer to Todd - we couldn't find an access point to an attic when we were there - its super odd.  We plan to go back with permission and cut an opening so we can do just that - walk around and see whats really going on up there.  The lighting in the kitchen is as you describe - except that the lights hang below the ceiling - so still not full indication of what is there.   Jim - this was so useful - thank you!  And yes i think you hit it spot on to budget high.  Mike - i found your concept about the sun porch so interesting - i can actually see where this may have happened!  

Basically they are asking too much for this house with the state it is in.  We are planning to go in this week and low ball their offer, to compensate for a large renovation expense.  I'm not confident they will accept - as it will be a shockingly lower number than what they are hoping.  But the bottom line is i don't believe anyone will ever get them what they are asking.  I also noticed that the day we went and did our showing, our realtor gave feedback that there was a lot more work needed than listing showed and that we would think about it.  That very day, the price was reduced another $9,000.   So i believe they are motivated but still dillusional.