Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
12y
@Greg D. The tax liens are still valid - the property owner still owes the taxes. Once the property deed changes hands from the old owner to the bank (or the entity doing the foreclosure), then the new entity owes the taxes from that day forward.
Foreclosure really just delays the time the lien will be paid off. But like all lien investing, you have to make sure the property is worth more than the lien total.
I actually look at foreclosed homes that already are in the bank name yet still have property tax liens. The bank has to pay off those liens when they finally sell the property. It's short term holdings, but at a high rate of interest, it's a nice quick hit for some idle cash.
In reality, banks usually pay the back taxes even before they try to sell the property, but sometimes they wait until they actually sell the property.
What you have to watch out for is the risk of the owner filing bankruptcy to stop the foreclosure. Bankruptcy can drag on for months or years and tie up your investment. In extreme (but rare) cases, the bankruptcy judge can vacate the interest paid on the lien - meaning you only get back your principal. More likely, your money is tied up for a long time.
Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
12y
@Greg D. The tax liens are still valid - the property owner still owes the taxes. Once the property deed changes hands from the old owner to the bank (or the entity doing the foreclosure), then the new entity owes the taxes from that day forward.
Foreclosure really just delays the time the lien will be paid off. But like all lien investing, you have to make sure the property is worth more than the lien total.
I actually look at foreclosed homes that already are in the bank name yet still have property tax liens. The bank has to pay off those liens when they finally sell the property. It's short term holdings, but at a high rate of interest, it's a nice quick hit for some idle cash.
In reality, banks usually pay the back taxes even before they try to sell the property, but sometimes they wait until they actually sell the property.
What you have to watch out for is the risk of the owner filing bankruptcy to stop the foreclosure. Bankruptcy can drag on for months or years and tie up your investment. In extreme (but rare) cases, the bankruptcy judge can vacate the interest paid on the lien - meaning you only get back your principal. More likely, your money is tied up for a long time.
Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
12y
@Michael Oldehoff Would you be willing some of the high level points of that situation? I have been able to avoid liens that eventually had the owner file bankruptcy so far.
Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 42 posts · 10 votes
12y
@Jerry K. It isn't overly complicated. We were into the lien for a little over $200k. We attempted to foreclose on it but were told the property owner filed bankruptcy (she had a whole mess of properties that would get caught up in it). We hired an attorney to fight to keep that specific property out of bankruptcy court to no avail.
3 years later and $10k-$15k in attorney's fees we got paid out of the bankruptcy sale a little more than $220k. A very bad situation for our money to be in. This was a commercial property.
Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
12y
@Greg D. You can do a quick call to the County office. Either the Treasurer or Recorder should be able to tell you if a parcel owner filed bankruptcy. Some county employees are not very helpful on the phone, so you can go to the county office itself.
You can also see if you county has a website that lists bankruptcies online. The county office can also tell you if they have that option.
If you have the name of the owner(s) you can Google their name and the word "bankruptcy". Don't rely on that search if it comes up blank, but sometimes it will lead you to a county website.
Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
12y
you always hear bad things about it- ohh don't do this and don't do that, cause if they file for BK, you're screwed !
here's how I look at it - don't put too much money in one basket. If one of your liens end up dealing with BK, you still have other liens working for you. Even this one in BK will eventually be released.
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
12y
What @Jerry K. Posted about looking up bankruptcy is not the best way IMO.
pacer.gov will allow you to search for bankruptcy cases.
Or you can look up the phone number for bankruptcy searches for your region; there is a website that has phone numbers for across the country. Which brings up the other thing I didn't like in in Jerry's post - it seems to imply that bankruptcy filings are local/county when they fall under federal courts.
Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
12y
I retract my advice. A couple of posts up, @Steve Babiak gives much better advice on searching for Bankruptcies. Thank you Steve for correcting me. I'd rather admit being wrong than have someone make a mistake based on what I advised.