Mining for Seller Carry Back Notes

23 Replies

Does anyone have a good resource for mining recent Seller carry Back Note transactions. I have looked into list providers which supply telephone numbers and addresses for recent transactions. Is there a better way to identify and communicate with those individuals who might be interested in selling their notes.

Originally posted by @Bob Berland :

Does anyone have a good resource for mining recent Seller carry Back Note transactions. I have looked into list providers which supply telephone numbers and addresses for recent transactions. Is there a better way to identify and communicate with those individuals who might be interested in selling their notes.

 How would you structure them?

Originally posted by @Bob Berland :

Mike Im not sure I understand your question?

 It would appear you are looking to buy some Seller Carry back notes. I have a couple for sale. But I would want to know what you have in mind. Can't get too specific in the forums since BP doesn't like that. PM me if you want to carry on the discussion and let me know what you are looking for.

@Bob Berland There is nothing that I know of that will do this although that may change soon for some areas if Property Radar adds this to their features. See this recent thread which has some answers for you:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/70/topics/618...

The only other thing you can do at this point is go down to the county recorder's office and do this yourself. It's not difficult but it's tedious because you have to look up Deeds of Trust and copy down the info in the "When Recorded mail to:" box. It's easy to tell if it's a private person or an entity. If it's an entity, you'll have to use your judgment to weed out banks and loan originators from mom and pop investors.

@Andy Mirza Thank you for the tip. Question is there an alternative to physically going to the county recorders office i.e. online search? I am looking on a national scale which precludes physical search. The list companies ListSource, Experian, CoreLogics, etc do they not differentiate between private lenders vs. institutional?

I am looking to generate my own seller carry back leads for my own personal portfolio.

Best,

bob

Originally posted by @Bob Berland :

Does anyone have a good resource for mining recent Seller carry Back Note transactions. I have looked into list providers which supply telephone numbers and addresses for recent transactions. Is there a better way to identify and communicate with those individuals who might be interested in selling their notes.

We regularly sell off our re-performing notes if this something you are interested in. Also starting to generate our own notes on REO's that we rehab and sell via seller finance.

Originally posted by @Bob Berland :

@Andy Mirza Thank you for the tip. Question is there an alternative to physically going to the county recorders office i.e. online search? I am looking on a national scale which precludes physical search. The list companies ListSource, Experian, CoreLogics, etc do they not differentiate between private lenders vs. institutional?

I am looking to generate my own seller carry back leads for my own personal portfolio.

Best,

bob

 I can't say what they offer now. When I tried a few years ago, I couldn't find any companies that would provide lists of any deeds of trust or mortgages with any contact info, whether private or institutional. It was frustrating.

My title company could get me a list of out of state owners for real property but they wouldn't provide any information on lenders. The only thing I could think of was that they wanted to stay away from any issues that might affect the privacy rights of borrowers.

Throwing my hat into the ring here @Bob Berland et al. Like @Chad Urbshott, we also have both seller-financed notes against REOs we sold as well as numerous re-performing notes available every month or two. Feel free to PM me for details, and so I can better understand your criteria. As a starting point, our yields range from 7.5% up to 14%. Nothing will be above that...

Originally posted by @Bob Berland :

@Andy Mirza Thank you for the tip. Question is there an alternative to physically going to the county recorders office i.e. online search? I am looking on a national scale which precludes physical search. The list companies ListSource, Experian, CoreLogics, etc do they not differentiate between private lenders vs. institutional?

I am looking to generate my own seller carry back leads for my own personal portfolio.

Best,

bob

I get yellow letters all the time for my private notes..  and I get telemaketed for my notes.

I have done this in Oregon.. pretty simple I call the title company and have customer service send me over a run each month of every note filed that is not a bank.. that is an LLC or private name of or a retirement account.

now I think if you don't have what we have on the west coast computerized digitized title plants were this is just a click of the mouse.

VAs can probably figure out how to build these lists for you as well may take some time. .but you should be able to pull those together..  

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Bob Berland:

@Andy Mirza Thank you for the tip. Question is there an alternative to physically going to the county recorders office i.e. online search? I am looking on a national scale which precludes physical search. The list companies ListSource, Experian, CoreLogics, etc do they not differentiate between private lenders vs. institutional?

I am looking to generate my own seller carry back leads for my own personal portfolio.

Best,

bob

I get yellow letters all the time for my private notes..  and I get telemaketed for my notes.

I have done this in Oregon.. pretty simple I call the title company and have customer service send me over a run each month of every note filed that is not a bank.. that is an LLC or private name of or a retirement account.

now I think if you don't have what we have on the west coast computerized digitized title plants were this is just a click of the mouse.

VAs can probably figure out how to build these lists for you as well may take some time. .but you should be able to pull those together..  

 I tried to do that with a couple of title companies here in SoCal a few years ago but they wouldn’t do it. I wonder if things have changed since then, whether it’s a CA thing, or I didn’t try enough title companies. Nice to know it can be done in OR

@Jay Hinrichs Thank you for the tip at the very least I can search in Oregon. Do you think the yellow letters are effective or is the telemarketing better. I have my own hunch but curious what you think. BTW I enjoy doing biz with your company!

Originally posted by @Bob Berland :

@Jay Hinrichs Thank you for the tip at the very least I can search in Oregon. Do you think the yellow letters are effective or is the telemarketing better. I have my own hunch but curious what you think. BTW I enjoy doing biz with your company!

 Bob,  the telemarketers I get are from two companies in NY and they are not good on the phone at all.

so in that instances the direct mail piece is better..  but I think you can find a way to use VAs and scrub public data to get your list !!

Hi @Wayne Snell, I'm thinking of switching from fix and rent to fix and sell on terms like you.  You said you are selling with yields at 7.5 to 14%.  I assume that is the total return to your buyer taking into account the note's face interest rate plus a discount on the note balance?  If so, that makes my proposed business plan very workable....

Are you seeing large demand at that return?  Also, what price point are you specializing in and what rate are you originating your loans at typically?

Thanks!

I'd figure out what type of lien or deed is recorded in the states where it isn't simply a deed of trust or mortgage for a seller carry.  Contract for deed, land contract, vendor sale, bargain and sale, etc.  

Then it's just a matter of digging into the grantor of that type of recorded doc.

In general, If a note' s rate is 6% and above and has been performing for over 24 months straight, what amount of discount are you trying to buy at?  I've had offers on some of mine that were pathetic, in the 70% range. Hope we're not helping you offer garbage like that.

Originally posted by @Andy Mirza :
Originally posted by @Bob Berland:

@Andy Mirza Thank you for the tip. Question is there an alternative to physically going to the county recorders office i.e. online search? I am looking on a national scale which precludes physical search. The list companies ListSource, Experian, CoreLogics, etc do they not differentiate between private lenders vs. institutional?

I am looking to generate my own seller carry back leads for my own personal portfolio.

Best,

bob

 I can't say what they offer now. When I tried a few years ago, I couldn't find any companies that would provide lists of any deeds of trust or mortgages with any contact info, whether private or institutional. It was frustrating.

My title company could get me a list of out of state owners for real property but they wouldn't provide any information on lenders. The only thing I could think of was that they wanted to stay away from any issues that might affect the privacy rights of borrowers.

Andy the recorded mortgages or deeds of trust are public record.. they can do this is they wish too.    

Originally posted by @Bob Berland :

@Jay Hinrichs Thank you for the tip at the very least I can search in Oregon. Do you think the yellow letters are effective or is the telemarketing better. I have my own hunch but curious what you think. BTW I enjoy doing biz with your company!

 Bob i can hook you up in Oregon  being one of the bigger accounts at our title company we can get this kind of service and at least to build a base i can probably ask them to help U..  just hit me off line.

For me, purchased lists of private (seller-financed) note holders is the way to go. Doing your own courthouse research is extremely laborious and time-consuming. My lead sources regularly compile customized lists of private note holders broken down by state, property type, LTV etc so that there are no junk notes in the list. That way, I know I'm mailing to a bona fide note holder. My supplier also accounts for the 15% of people who move every year so that out-of-date addresses are, in large part, eliminated.

From there, all that I need to do is direct mail the note holders. Usually I do at least 1,000 mailings at a time, sometimes 3,000 per month. I keep my mailing cost down by using post cards. And, since I'm mailing only to known note sellers (what I like to call "high grade ore"), every name on the list is a potential (good) deal.

At any given time, somewhere around 2% of note holders are MOTIVATED to sell NOW, which equates to 20 out of 1,000 so that's 20 (real potential) closed note deals per 1,000 leads at somewhere around 20- cents per lead so if you do the math, that's about $200 spent per 1,000 leads + mailing costs and I find it's really well worth it. Also, I follow up every month or two with subsequent mailings, as today's non-motivated note holders become motivated sellers over the ensuing months. Also, when I market them, I build credibility and can turn over quite a few deals through followups.

If you want my suggestions re some note holder lists, PM me.

Originally posted by @Tim Fitzgerald :

For me, purchased lists of private (seller-financed) note holders is the way to go. Doing your own courthouse research is extremely laborious and time-consuming. My lead sources regularly compile customized lists of private note holders broken down by state, property type, LTV etc so that there are no junk notes in the list. That way, I know I'm mailing to a bona fide note holder. My supplier also accounts for the 15% of people who move every year so that out-of-date addresses are, in large part, eliminated.

From there, all that I need to do is direct mail the note holders. Usually I do at least 1,000 mailings at a time, sometimes 3,000 per month. I keep my mailing cost down by using post cards. And, since I'm mailing only to known note sellers (what I like to call "high grade ore"), every name on the list is a potential (good) deal.

At any given time, somewhere around 2% of note holders are MOTIVATED to sell NOW, which equates to 20 out of 1,000 so that's 20 (real potential) closed note deals per 1,000 leads at somewhere around 20- cents per lead so if you do the math, that's about $200 spent per 1,000 leads + mailing costs and I find it's really well worth it. Also, I follow up every month or two with subsequent mailings, as today's non-motivated note holders become motivated sellers over the ensuing months. Also, when I market them, I build credibility and can turn over quite a few deals through followups.

If you want my suggestions re some note holder lists, PM me.

that would certainly be worth it for sure.. figured there had to be some national...  Bob with your private notes do you get people contacting you ???