Originally posted by @Debbie Lee :

@Lew Payne from your thread " please provide a scanned copy of the contract you signed and all the associated paperwork, so we can make an informed opinion on here" 

Are you  some type of consumer rights related attorney? What type of your background knowledge makes you so confident to ask me showing you the contract?

If none of the above , PLEASE do not waste my time! I am talking $41,000 here ! talking this is a scam !

 Debbie, I've been to one of those types of seminars. I am surprised that they did not ask you how much equity you have in your current residence to determine if you would be willing to fork over even more cash. I left when they want to talk to me one on one about the equity in my home.  I hope you get all of your money back! 

Originally posted by @Debbie Lee :

Originally posted by @Lew Payne:

I can easily get the names of the principals of a business (corporation, LLC, or whatever) via the Secretary of State website, and then run their names for any enforcement actions that may have been taken against them in the past. Such prior actions (especially those that involve defrauding consumers) will not sit well with the card fraud department, nor will it sit well with the seminar company's merchant bank. It is simple to determine which merchant bank they are using... your card company can look up their merchant code and tell you who the merchant bank is. You can then complain directly to their merchant bank and watch their card processing ability get turned off. Ouch... just like what happens to terrorists trying to launder money through the US banking system.

excellent information here !!

I don't seem to find the names of the principals of Premium Financial Training, would you please help ??

thanks a million 

 Here is the company information

Premier Mentoring, Inc

This Business is not BBB Accredited

Additional Locations

Phone: (801) 495-2405

Fax: (801) 999-4602

View Additional Phone Numbers

6465 S 3000 E Ste 203, Salt Lake City, UT 84121

[email protected]

View Additional Email Addresses

http://www.premiermentoring.com

BBB file opened: December 14, 1999

Business started: 10/07/1998

Business started locally: 10/07/1998

Business incorporated: 10/07/1998 in UT

Type of Entity

Corporation

Business Management

Shane Andrus, Company Contact

Mr. Cris Cannon, President

Holden Richardson, Manager/Member

Ms. Helen Smith, CS Manager

Mr. Jeff Spangler, COB

Contact Information

Principal: Shane Andrus, Company Contact

Business Category

Training ProgramsFinancial Consultants - No License RequiredCoaching - BusinessReal Estate Schools

Alternate Business Names

Advanced Financial Training

Financial Media Group, LLC

Find and FlipFlip Advantage

Flipping Formula

Loral Langemeier

Premium Financial Training

Property Bank

Property Wars

Real Estate Addict

Top Trader

Trend Trading

Zurixx, LLC

Additional Web Addresses

• http://www.imiutah.com
• http://www.adkessler.com
• http://www.toptrader.com
• http://www.bobdiamondrealestate.com
• http://www.loralcoaching.com
• http://www.armandocoaching.com
• http://www.charrissacoaching.com
• http://www.flippingformula.com

Originally posted by @Debbie Lee :

Alright, for those folks wanting to know what company:

Tarek & Christina El Moussa teamed up with a company called Premium financial training, sucess path education

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/specific_searc...

 Ok so doing a bit more research I have come to the conclusion that the ripoff company is actually Premier Mentoring, they get famous gurus with a name and then represent them to sell all kinds of crap courses which never provide anything except how to teach students how to raise their CC limits so the can sell them more worthless training. Here is a ripoff by Armando Montelongo from A&E tv with Premier Mentoring... which sounds identical to Debbie's Problem with Tarek and Cristina El Moussa from HGTV Flip or Flop with Premier Mentoring.

---------------------------------

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/armando-montelongo-and-premier-mentoring-inc-draper-utah-c235107.html

Deceptive sales and unfulfilled terms Complaint Rating: Contact information: Premier Mentoring, In. Draper, Utah United StatesPhone: 888-684-3304 armandocoaching.com

My complaint is against Premier Mentoring, Inc., Exchange Place 172 East 14075 South, Draper, UT 84020 and Armando Montelongo. Contact person is Nate Gay of the Resolutions Department 888-684-3304 x720 On June 9, 2009 my boyfriend and I attended a "seminar" about how to flip homes put on by Armando Montelongo of "Flip This House" on A&E. This, of course, was a sales pitch. We were promised a 3-day course with Armando. numerous techniques on how to make money flipping houses including using insurance companies' money, access to hard money, and access to their "abundant" inventory of homes that needed rehab. The presenter, I believe his name was Matt Matthews, said there was a complete money back guarantee. We signed up for the course which cost $2, 997. We were promised continental breakfast and lunch each day. The receipt for the course indicated there would be: "3-day real estate investing workshop with Armando Montelongo 3 days of live training with Armando Montelongo and his team!!! Master study course materials, including 5 Wealth Guides and 12 CDs! "Flip It Now" 5 books series! 2009 foreclosure opportunity course! 6 months of real estate hotline support!" The fine print on the contract: Customer Service: If you have any questions about your upcoming workshop, please feel free to contact our Customer Service Department, toll free, at (888) 634-3304. Fullfillment Policy: It is your obligation to attend any scheduled workshops or training sessions. However, if you do not complete your training sessions within 30 days of the scheduled dates, we will provide you with alternate training materials (via e-mail, CD/DVD, print materials or online access) as fulfillment of your purchase. Any alternate training materials are provided for personal use only and do not constitute a license to duplicate, distribute or sell such materials. Return Policy: You may cancel this transaction at any time prior to three (3) business days after purchase. To cancel, please call Customer Service to obtain a Return Authorization Code and shipping address. Items must be returned in resaleable condition to receive refund. I hereby authorize the processing of my tuition payment in exchange for the products and services stated above. By signing below, I acknowledge that I have read and agree to the terms and conditions described in the Fulfillment & Return Policies. We attended the training on Friday, June 19 through Sunday, June 21, 2009. There was no food as promised. Over half of the students complained and they finally took us out to lunch on Friday and Saturday. Armando appeared for about an hour on Saturday "unprepared" and did not teach anything. He only promoted a field trip with him at an additional cost of $24, 000. At the beginning I asked if the presenter was familiar with Arizona real estate law as I am a member of the Arizona Real Estate Investor's Association (AZREIA) and attend meetings where the local law is reviewed. I specifically asked because the initial presenter in June, Matt, spoke of a process that is illegal here in Arizona (bird-dogging). I was assured the presenter knew Arizona law. I have subsequently learned that other "techniques" they promoted are also illegal here. Although promised on several occassions, we never received the course materials (Master study course materials, including 5 Wealth Guides and 12 CDs!) We did received Armando's Flip and Grow Rich 5 book series and the 12 supporting CDs for the series. We never received the 2009 foreclosure opportunity course. The presenter talked about increasing your credit card limits and reducing the interest rate, goal setting, a couple of examples of loan option wraps, 3 hours on a rental agreement, the annuity he set up for his daughter and how his nanny stole his credit cards. Very little was done on real estate investing. They promoted their mentoring program for $19, 000 - $24, 000 and a new reality program that Armando is doing. By Sunday I was furious. Many of the people in the class felt the same way I did. I was again assured by Jordan, one of the instructors, that there was a money back guarantee (which they, of course, now deny). I was yelled at by 2 of the instructors that I was uncooperative (all I wanted was what was promised). I have since done research on Armando and found several web sites that enumerate on the rip-off of his courses. You can find them by searching on "Armando Montelongo complaints." They refererrd people to the Utah Attorney General and Better Business Bureau. I have since filed complaints with both. I have left 5 voice mail messages with Nate Gay in the Resolutions department of Premier Mentoring, Inc. that have gone unanswered.

@Lance Van Buren  you rock !! you got all the information about the company I need.

they registered as Premier Mentoring, Inc showed on BBB, but on rippoffreport.com appeared as " Premium Financial Training" ?

@Lance Van Buren  This company is a slimmy snake !!! They have keep changing the business names so people can't catch them !!

Alternate Business Names

Advanced Financial Training

Financial Media Group, LLC

Find and FlipFlip Advantage

Flipping Formula

Loral Langemeier

Premium Financial Training

Property Bank

Property Wars

Real Estate Addict

Top Trader

Trend Trading

Zurixx, LLC

@Rhondalette W. Thank God, my house is not touched !

Originally posted by @Debbie Lee :

@Lance Van Buren  you rock !! you got all the information about the company I need.

they registered as Premier Mentoring, Inc showed on BBB, but on rippoffreport.com appeared as " Premium Financial Training" ?

 I posted the information above in the company info, its  the Same company... they just have different names

Alternate Business Names:

Advanced Financial Training

Financial Media Group, LLC

Find and FlipFlip Advantage

Flipping Formula

Loral Langemeier

Premium Financial Training

Property Bank

Property Wars

Real Estate Addict

Top Trader

Trend Trading

Zurixx, LLC

@Lance Van Buren Yes they are same company, under so many different business names.

Today I had the company principal : Shane Andrus called to intimidated me, how honored !!

So Armando is behind all this Grief!!!!

Debbie has done a lot.  Now we would like her to file a complaint with the local consumers protection at                       http://www.consumercomplaintagency.org/

So far Debbie has completed  the following:

1.  She has sent the CC company (s) letters to take the              charges off her Bills.  We need to know what the credit          card companies are sayng about this??

2.   She has complained to the attorney General and we             need to know if they have responded

Now we want to know what else she should do and if she did anything else with other agencies.  We want no stone left unturned and we need to know from Debbie what other actions she took.  The BP community also should advise, Especially Lew, what else she should do

BG

People have all advised Debbie to get a lawyer and that's a great idea but she can't afford one;  So we are going to follow the suggestion of going to a law school and see if she can get some Pro Bono help.

We are asking  her to get in touch with Chicago Law school and present her request for assistance.  She needs a lawyer's letter sent to the GURU.  

So Debbie we are asking you to get in touch with:

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/probono

Chicago law school has this pro bono clinic

Please let us know if you can do this.

BG

@Barbara G. Wait a minute @Debbie Lee put up $41k at the drop of a hat (pitch), can't afford a Lawyer and we'll all run around in circles for her claims of being taken by a "slimmy snake".

There's always three sides to every issue: Debbie's, Snake's & the Truth.

I learned the hard way that you can't help someone, more, than they want to help themselves.

Several years ago I went to the Massachusetts Attorney Generals office to champion the rights of 22 "Aggrieved Potential Investors" that had been "taken" by John Ross. AG followed through but cautioned me to get the complaints in writing, notarized and they'd haul Ross back to Mass.

Guess how many APIs even wrote down the facts of the case.....

@Debbie Lee just a quick suggestion... and I am *not* a lawyer so this is not legal advice in any way... here in Illinois it is illegal to audio record a phone call without both parties agreeing to it. So be careful with that!

Good luck to you!

Originally posted by @Mike Hurney :

@Barbara Goodman Wait a minute @Debbie Lee put up $41k at the drop of a hat (pitch), can't afford a Lawyer and we'll all run around in circles for her claims of being taken by a "slimmy snake".

There's always three sides to every issue: Debbie's, Snake's & the Truth.

I learned the hard way that you can't help someone, more, than they want to help themselves.

Several years ago I went to the Massachusetts Attorney Generals office to champion the rights of 22 "Aggrieved Potential Investors" that had been "taken" by John Ross. AG followed through but cautioned me to get the complaints in writing, notarized and they'd haul Ross back to Mass.

Guess how many APIs even wrote down the facts of the case.....

 HI Mike

Thank you  for contributing the above.

Debbie did not have the money to pay for the courses, she was brainwashed and guided into duping her credit card card companies in order to charge the costs.

Everyone knows these people take advantage of those of us that have the least money.

Debbie IS helping herself.  She has been REFUNDED  $14,500 back because of her work by that GURU company.  She has written the Attorney General and she has composed and sent two letters off to her credit card companies. She has done additional things.  She has been working day and night.  She has listened to this BiggerPockets community.

We should not be faulting her.  We should be treating her as part of our family and helping her.  If she wins and if she prevails we will celebrate with her, just like we would celebrate for anyone in our family that does well.  I am sure you would also like to see her get her money back.

BG 

@Barbara G. yes to find out all 3 sides of story it takes lengthy effort, for a party willing to commit, however, I have used all of the free services which I have no control over them in "how dedicated" " how far and deep" they are willing  to fight on behalf of  me?

@Danielle Cage thank you, I won't record then!

Originally posted by @Debbie Lee :

@Barbara Goodman lets put a goal here, for sure I am not going make my life miserable over this scam, I will try my full attention to this matter one more week, by sending out my complaint to all possible org. and surely post my story in my free time to alarm people, If do not get a desirable result, and this  is just too bad, LIFE GOES ON, I have to shift my attention for making more money somewhere else.

@Mike Hurney yes to find out all 3 sides of story it takes lengthy effort, for a party willing to commit, however, I have used all of the free services which I have no control over them in "how dedicated" " how far and deep" they are willing  to fight on behalf of  me?

 Hi Debbie

That's a really  healthy attitude that you have.  If you can take this, do the best you can with it. and Win or Lose be ready to go on to your next step that's just the best.

Good luck with this and your future

BG

@Debbie Lee just a quick suggestion... and I am *not* a lawyer so this is not legal advice in any way... here in Illinois it is illegal to audio record a phone call without both parties agreeing to it. So be careful with that!

Debbie:

When he calls you back tell him that you would like to record the call and get his permission.  He might not agree but it's worth a try. 

I've been following this since day one and it's interesting to see how you have gone from being afraid to do anything to now taking action and standing up for yourself.  Also, it's neat to see how many experts here are willing to help with solid advice.  Don't stop until you get every cent back.

Originally posted by @Danielle Cage :

@Debbie Lee just a quick suggestion... and I am *not* a lawyer so this is not legal advice in any way... here in Illinois it is illegal to audio record a phone call without both parties agreeing to it. So be careful with that!

Good luck to you!

There is a federal exemption that, if you believe a crime is being committed, you may record the conversation without the other party's consent.  All Debbie Lee has to say is that, based on the misinformation given to her as well as what she later found out about the company online, she had reasonable cause to believe their actions were criminal in nature.

UPDATE: 

Have submitted complaint to : 

1. 1 of 2 CC company fraud department ( the other one pending dispute form receiving)

2. submitted complaint to Illinois Attorney General 

3. submitted complaint to BBB UT

4. submitted complaint to Consumer Complaint Agency

I doubt this  "slimy snake" will want to waste anymore time disputing back and forth with me....after reading the online complaints, he is " seasoned" slimy criminal that no one can catch him, look at the fact, the business has started: 1998  with 12 different business names in trade, and sad thing is business is still going.....

Originally posted by @Lew Payne :

There is a federal exemption that, if you believe a crime is being committed, you may record the conversation without the other party's consent.  All Debbie Lee has to say is that, based on the misinformation given to her as well as what she later found out about the company online, she had reasonable cause to believe their actions were criminal in nature.

Thanks for the info. I'll definitely keep it in mind. I wonder how strict or lenient they are with that. I would think there has to be a strong reasonable cause otherwise just about anyone could use that as a defense. Unfortunately it's not beyond a justice system to turn a victim into the criminal. Though I'm going off topic with that line of thought.

All the best,

Danielle

Somewhat off topic... but hopefully this thread can be googled and be a lesson to all the other "Debbies" out there. (BP regulars will most likely be forewarned already.)

Notice how many "guesses" there were as to what the company was? I could have added a couple more myself (more than that if I included the ones that are now out of business!)

Standard guru hard sell. Standard guru repeated upsell. Standard guru failure to follow through.

Keep at it @Debbie Lee ! I myself have considered carrying a sign at one of those "free" seminars but I do not want to be arrested for "disturbing the peace". 

I have attended a few and talked to as many people as I could to warn them.

I wish you the best.

@Lance Van Buren, thanks for the information on Premier Mentoring, Inc. I had no idea that this company keeps changing it's name over the years and still in business. I wish FTC would put them out of business.

@Danielle Cage, you said your friend attended a free 2 hour real estate workshop in Chicago area sounded exactly done in St. Louis area. They had people signed up for a 3 day seminar for $200. After attending that and suckered the people into signing up for a $25K seminar. First they signed people up to increase their credit cards limit etc. Then signed the $25K contract. That should have been RED FLAG! I like to know why you did not say who they are?   I am pretty sure, I know who they are. It is Than Merrill, Fortune Builders, Flip This House that you see on TV. I would not sign up with this company because of their tactics to get people to increase their credit cards limit. This is another company to avoid. You can find more info on their website .... FortuneBuilders.com

@Lance Van Buren, do you know if Fortune Builders operate with Premier Mentoring, Inc?I'm pretty sure other people are wondering the same thing. Would appreciate an answer to it.

@James Enright - Let me use some of my Google-Kung Fu skills. Give me a few hours and I will see what I can dig up if there is any connection.