Legit or just another guru wannabe REI

32 Replies

I went to a real estate meet up and it was advertised as free and "don't bring your credit cards" I'm not going to lie I got my hopes up a bit. Sadly as I expected it was just another sales pitch for some guru coaching program except this one is lifetime access and actually works "unlike those other gurus" LOL Anyways it was held by these two Asian American brothers from Chicago who flew to San Antonio called the Kwak brothers, who are supposed millionaires at the age of 25. They flew all the way out here to help us out and teach us, yeah right they came to sell a program which they admitted makes them 30 grand in extra income a month. At least they are honest about that. They taught us Owner financing and made it seem all peaches and cream which it isn't, and as if that was the norm and was a brand new state of the art best thing ever way to take down deals. They offered a 20k course through myrenatus.com and were really pushing this thing called velocity banking which you could only learn through their education course. Has anyone heard of them or dealt with them before? I am going to start asking all the time when I run across these gurus because I want to know ya'lls opinions and help others learn more or avoid them in the future before making a huge financial decision.

Seems totally legit.. 

If you have 200 to 300k and you are sure what to do with it and feel they ok, I say go for it. If you only have the 20k I certainly wouldn’t risk it hoping their secret sauces is my flavor. I bought my first rental with 13k down. And my second for 1k down.

Good luck and don’t let emotion rule your wallet.

@Michael Guzik , you said it best when you wrote"yeah right"! And "LOL"!

Wannabes, all the way. You can certainly read plenty about "velocity" banking right here on BP, under threads like "Replace my mortgage with a HELOC?". Here's the gist of it: If you earn 150% of what you need to spend each pay, you can pay off your mortgage quicker by putting all of your income directly into your HELOC, and only withdraw the amount you need to pay your bills at the last available moment (to save on interest).

Now, was that last sentence really worth the $3k that most of these "programs" usually charge you for their coaching/training in such "velocity"? Answer: No! 

Why? Because, what's stopping you from accelerating your mortgage repayments now?...

there are long threads on REnatus  its a MLM style real estate scheme..

you make money signing up other people under you to drink their same cool aid.

its been said on BP their quality of education is very good however I have never personally seen it and

ground zero seems to be Chicago.

It was spawned out of another guru group or person who had one guru company that went under then started this one.. I have no doubt like all MLM style things.. the few at the top of the pyramid make HUGE money and its more FAR more than 30k a month.

I see ads for this same thing on Yahoo and Fox news as well as Facebook all the time.  It's not a secret but I think it would definitely take discipline .   If you have the willpower to take it slow and steady then I can see it working out.  I think you made the right decision by not taking the bait. As @Brent Coombs said, it's all on here for free anyways. 

@Josh C. Thank you for the comment and the advice! This is a business and you are right numbers don't lie!

@Brent Coombs Thanks for the comment Brent I appreciate it! I honestly had never heard of the term before so I really was intrueged. Thank you for the insight on it!

@Jay Hinrichs Thank you for the comment Jay! I appreciate you opinion and informing me of what you know. I just really hate groups and people like this because they are really just taking advantage of others.

I would check out Lifestyles unlimited in your city. We signed on and they have a $500 2 day class of 16 hours, first day is learning how to find, fund, and run single family, duplex, triplex, Quad. The second day is the same information in regards to 5+ - 800 unit apartment complexes. 

Not all gurus and mentoring programs are a scam...just check them out and talk to existing students (aside from the one or two at the event who are only there to help sell it). Any good program is still going to be around a few months from now. Nothing wrong with taking your time to make a decision. I don't know anything about this one but it doesn't sound so good based on the comments.

@Paul B. I agree with you there, I believe the good ones get overshadowed by the bad ones so everyone perceives them as negative..

@Michael Guzik you are right to LOL, I would try to stay clear from any that are offering a "class, or education course" Just get you're brokers license and join an REI team then if you are going to spend the money, just my opinion. BP is a much better and affordable way to learn about investing.

I would also look for local smaller meet ups on BP, I have attended a few and also my team hosted one last month and we all had a blast! We had a discussion panel about house hacking and I had it professionally taped, waiting for them to send it over to me so I can post it up here on BP. We are starting to plan for our second event in early February, just a great way to get a lot of like minds from here on BP together :)

@Lloyd Stanton Love the post

I live about an hour South of Chicago. One of these brothers came to view an apartment that I had available, he claimed he was looking to attend the local university. He claimed that he worked for a large RE investor in Chicago. He didn't seem legit to me.
When I told him I managed the property and did not own it, he had seen enough. His name continued to pop up in my email as "interested" in different units when I had a unit open.
Something is "off" that's for sure…

Disclosure: I am an Independent Marketing Affiliate of Renatus and get paid to make referrals.

Hi Guys... It's Sam Kwak here! The supposed 'scammer' according to Michael. Surprised I just found this now! I really appreciate the love and kindness here! Would love to make a statement in regards to this post.

I do recall Michael attending one of our events that Daniel and I hosted down in San Antonio. He gave me a really great impression and seemed like a wonderful individual. Michael didn't seem like a person who would have an interaction with us and make a post on Biggerpockets. 

We DID infact flew down there to host an event to talk about concepts of real estate investing and we did talk about how we were able to acquire a 24 unit multifamily without using our own cash or credit through owner financing. We also talked about how we even negotiated it. And like Michael said, we did introduce the audience to an education service that helped me and my brother to get to where are today. We have 75 rental units and have done several flips in the last 4 years of being part of the education service company called Renatus. We are currently working on an 18 unit and a 4 unit acquisition using Owner Financing.  To be transparent, my brother and I also have a marketing company that is contracted with Renatus to help them find more students in exchange for 50% commission. We are also a student of Renatus and have been like I mentioned and we are excited to see all the results and the fruit of our labor thanks to information we have learned. Clearly, Renatus may not be a good fit for everyone or some may never see the value... We apologize to Michael if we didn't do a good job of presenting Renatus in a way that explains all the benefits and the features 

I have no problem seeing individuals invest their dollars in to learning more and acquiring knowledge from other individuals who have experienced success. I personally made the decision to enroll in Renatus as a student because I saw the value of being able to exchange money (unlimited resource) with more time (limited resource). If I was on my own, I knew it would take YEARS to figure it out. I certainly would not have been able to acquire 75 units on my own that quickly. This is just an opinion but my decision to enroll probably shaved 10-15 years of figuring things out on my own and I don't think you can put a price tag on that. I see time as a more valuable resource than money. If I want to become financially free to have more time freedom, doesn't it contradict my goal if I'm making a decision from the mindset of valuing money over time? Clearly, the "Pro" members here saw the value of BiggerPockets and decided to pay into their subscription of $39/mo. to save more time and achieve their goals. I hope people understand that Biggerpockets offer free things/training so they can sell subscriptions. It's a simple marketing... Give, Give, Give.. and then ask! Right? And I have no problem with Biggerpockets' business model and clearly it's working for them in raking in it! Good for them! 

Clearly, this wasn't a good fit for Michael and we wish him the BEST of luck and I really do wish him all the SUCCESS in the world. 

As far as Kevin Hill's comment. I ALSO recall meeting Kevin in Bourbonnais as I used to live there. I own four properties there myself. I used to attend a local university that is in Bourbonnais, IL as Kevin has mentioned. Part of our strategy to acquire rentals is call properties that are listed "For Rent" to see if the landlord/owner is interested in selling. In fact, we recently bought a 4 unit apartment building this way by calling For Rent signs. The message is... if people don't know your name, you aren't marketing hard enough. I'm glad to hear that Kevin knows me. It means my marketing efforts have been paying off. I also wish Kevin SUCCESS and MASSIVE GROWTH in his business down in Bourbonnais. That's an exciting market due to the new ramp that is built between Manteno and Bradley. 


Bottom line, I'm really glad i found this post because it tells me that our brand, The Kwak Brothers, is growing. I invite everyone to do some research about who we really are and who Renatus is.... My brother and I come from a humble beginning as immigrants to this country in 1999. We didn't speak much English nor did we understood the culture. But through hard work and getting connected to the right group of people within the Renatus community, we are blessed and fortunate enough to where we now have 75 rental units under our belt! If you're all about hard work, dedication, perseverance and patience... We're RIGHT THERE with you! I wish all the success in the world! 

Disclosure: I am an Independent Marketing Affiliate of Renatus and get paid to make referrals.

Thanks guys!

isn't velocity banking discussed here on BP with some heated lengthy posts.. 

If you have to ask if it’s a scam it probably is.

I have yet to see a case where spending 20k or more on these programs is worth it

I was just reached out to by this gentleman and he asked me to delete this post. He tried using my faith against me and pulled the love your neighbor as yourself card to try and guilt trip me. Although I could, I do not want to. I turn to BP all the time to look at what others are saying about companies, gurus and investors. I want others to come here and read this thread and join in if they have anything to say. If this thread can help save even one person from spending 30k on a course, and instead joining BP and reading through this wealth of knowledge and interacting in this great community it will all be worth it. I believe that @Joshua Dorkin would agree with me, and he is where I got my fiery passion for helping others that may be going down the path of Guru's and "mentors". Sure that works for some people, and yes there are good ones out there, but most are selling a get rich quick fantasy that won't happen. That is how I feel these guys are and how they made it seem in their presentation. If anyone has any other input please join in. I may be wrong and they may be a great company or group, but I didn't have a great experience and it looks like others didn't either.

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