Syracuse has been popping up as one of the best markets to invest in right now and for good reason. The property prices are very low, the job market is picking up, property appreciation in the areas outside of the City Limits are 4%+ in some areas. We have a new amazon facility, large microchip manufacturing facility being built in Oneida county, and many other smaller businesses that are bringing hope to this area that was on the downslope for a long time

     I am an investor in the area, I know many other investors in the Syracuse market, many of them are on this forum as well. We own a construction & remodeling company that handles all of our own remodels, we manage properties, and my Wife is an agent. We have built a great team that is focused on real estate investing in the Upstate NY market. Our day-to-day life is 100% real estate and we do nothing else. We use our little real estate machine every day, in 2020 we purchase 50+ units, mostly single family and some 2-family. With that being said: 

BUT DON'T BE  A SLUMLORD. lol

There are parts of Syracuse that do not make sense to buy in right now due to the condition of the properties that lie therin, we can change this. The Syracuse land bank is an organization that is actively taking properties from bad landlords and landlords who are not paying their taxes. The Land bank is doing a pretty good job at selling houses with the contingency that you MUST make the minimum amount of repairs. You're not going to BRRRR in many parts of Syracuse but you can build a portfolio and sell that later on down the line and you can still build a great cash flowing set of properties but please do not make the mistake of looking at the cost per door or the cap rate and thinking you're getting a great deal. You may be getting a deal but look at the condition of the properties first.

Many of these properties will need work and many of them are beautiful and historic in appearance with great bones. You can purchase properties from the Syracuse Landbank for $1,000 but also know that you're going to be putting in $70,000 to remodel the property. Focus not only on the interior of a property but on the exterior. There are far too many investors who are buying from other tired investors and they do NOTHING to the properties. These properties are a blight on the city. We met with a pair of investors who purchased 40 units at "$12k" a door and that's all they could talk about. These properties were in terrible shape and I would never rent any of them out, the investor wanted to rent them out for $300 at least just to keep the money coming in. 

If you're going to buy in Syracuse, make sure you're planning on increasing the quality of the property. Let's continue to bring this city up and change the way tenants view their landlords in Syracuse. I always have at least a $15k budget on our properties, there may be old asbestos siding in good shape but if it's ugly then we're going to paint it, if the porches on the front of the house are ugly, we're changing them, wrap the window trim in metal, throw a new roof on even if the current one isn't yet leaking, parge the foundation, replace the old cabinets, don't use $2/sqft laminate flooring, replace the dang trim if it's been painted over 100 times, remove the ugly wires from the outside of the house and have the cable company install new ones, fix the grading of the yard, trim trees, and repair sidewalks. These are the biggest factors in transforming a property. 

If you're not sure what the true cost of a repair would be feel free to ask me for advice, we are currently not for hire though. If you need an agent, reach out to @Molly Walsh 315-400-2654 | She is purely focused on investment properties and knows the ins and outs of the Syracuse market. We also have great contacts for insurance agents, lawyers, and short sale specialists. 

good report..  does not do a city  any good to have 12k rentals at 300 a month.. can you say perpetual Ghetto.. !!!

Plus there is not enough GROSS income to even come close to keeping up with cap ex and basic maintenance.. right ??? 

@Ronald Starusnak Well stated!!

Excellent Post and spot on.

We invest in Elmira and have the same mindset facing similar demographics. Many properties that have been run by absentee slumlords  leaving some projects just too far gone.

As a Home Inspector we went through 40 properties to find 4 that did not need major work. Skmilarly I have inspected properties in Syracuse and saw a similar distribution. 

As an engineer I love developing quality housing and working to turn our city around.  I will never understand the benefit to running your property into the ground. 

Nice post.

Originally posted by @Amos Mainville :

Excellent Post and spot on.

We invest in Elmira and have the same mindset facing similar demographics. Many properties that have been run by absentee slumlords  leaving some projects just too far gone.

As a Home Inspector we went through 40 properties to find 4 that did not need major work. Skmilarly I have inspected properties in Syracuse and saw a similar distribution. 

As an engineer I love developing quality housing and working to turn our city around.  I will never understand the benefit to running your property into the ground. 

Nice post.

 I agree, I don't know if it is ignorance or intentional sometimes. 

Great post and great insight! Our group is new to investing in the Syracuse market but we will do right by the city and our tenants 

@Ronald Starusnak Thanks for the post! I grew up outside of Syracuse but now live in CO and have been seeing the landbank, and other properties come up for sale. I might have misread but are the landbank properties only being sold to owners that plan to occupy for 5 or more years? Can you purchase from the landbank as an out of state landlord? 

Originally posted by @Andy Horn :

@Ronald Starusnak Thanks for the post! I grew up outside of Syracuse but now live in CO and have been seeing the landbank, and other properties come up for sale. I might have misread but are the landbank properties only being sold to owners that plan to occupy for 5 or more years? Can you purchase from the landbank as an out of state landlord? 

 Yes, you can purchase landbank properties as an absentee owner. The Landbank is 100% investor friendly, they just provide you with a list of repairs that must be made. Your contract with the landbank I think could potentially allow them to take the property back if you refuse to make the repairs. They just don't want to see landlords buying run down properties and leaving them that way. We're buying properties where the old owners are renting units for $450-$650/month because they're so beat, when we're done with the remodel those same units could be $1,100-$1,300. 

There is excellent potential in the city but WEST of 81 and SOUTH of 690 can be hard to BRRRR in. The banks typically don't look at NEIGHBORHOODS though. They usually look for distance, so even if the lender looks for comps within a 1 mile radius. Your neighborhood might support comps at $65k for example but a few blocks away might support comps of $150k. So if you wanted to refi and get 75% LTV of let's say $115k-$125k but your property is in a lower value neighborhood, it is possible. Especially if you're using a HML. I know Limaone hires someone to take pictures for the appraisal, and then they send the pictures to a third party appraiser out of like Texas or something who has no idea about the varying prices within neighborhoods. Someone like this would be easier to push a valuation that makes the investment make sense.

This can put you in a position where you're over leveraged but not really. If you had 5-10 of these properties where the neighborhood comps support a lower valuation than your loan amount, to sell them as a package based on performance would actually cause them to have a higher valuation. It's just the difference between selling a small turn key portfolio or selling them individually. I also think after a few years of investors hitting in these areas, the valuations will increase and even if you're over leveraged on one of these properties, it's not by much at all especially considering the total investment cost and average rental rates being $1,200+. 

Also to add to the above, I will only buy if we're making at least $1,000 per duplex. Average mortgage, taxes, and insurance cost being maybe $900, a two unit that rents for $1,200-$1,300/ea is a no brainer. 

@Ronald Starusnak thanks for the info, would love to connect and hear a bit more about what you're seeing when looking at neighborhoods. In my initial research I've noticed the same thing about one place selling for $70k and then two blocks over they're at $120k. Knowing the city fairly well and that you can get a lot a more for your money has certainly got me looking into some BRRRR opportunities with the landbank or just off MLS.

I agree with this sentiment @Ronald Starusnak . Curious since you aren't taking on new jobs ATM, do you have any rehab contractors you'd recommend? I'll be in the area end of this month and will be spending lots of time looking over neighborhoods and getting a better feel for the city.

So in other words, you don't want any of those poor people that would be looking for a $300 property. 

You want someone to fix it up so you don't have such an eye sore, and raise the rents up to keep the people that can't afford more than they were paying away.

Hey -- I feel ya.  I wouldn't want some $300/month rental near me either.  But let's not pretend it's all-benefit to take those ugly properties and fix them up as what it means it is just displaces someone that can't afford anything nicer.  They were obviously okay with an ugly property if it meant only paying $300.  You've taken away their option.  

"Congrats poors, we fixed up your property.  Got rid of that slumlord.  Oh, by the way.  Your new rent is $750 now"

Originally posted by @Ronald Starusnak :

Originally posted by @Andy Horn:

We're buying properties where the old owners are renting units for $450-$650/month because they're so beat, when we're done with the remodel those same units could be $1,100-$1,300. \

So what happens to the people that can't afford $1,000+ but could afford the $450-$650 they were paying?  

F*** them I guess.  As long as you have better looking property to look at on your way to brunch.

I get that your heart is in the right place but when people try to virtue signal about fixing stuff up to raise up the rents they never consider the impact to people that can't afford nice places.  These evil slumlords are often providing housing that they can't afford from anyone else. 

Originally posted by @Cody L. :

So in other words, you don't want any of those poor people that would be looking for a $300 property. 

You want someone to fix it up so you don't have such an eye sore, and raise the rents up to keep the people that can't afford more than they were paying away.

Hey -- I feel ya.  I wouldn't want some $300/month rental near me either.  But let's not pretend it's all-benefit to take those ugly properties and fix them up as what it means it is just displaces someone that can't afford anything nicer.  They were obviously okay with an ugly property if it meant only paying $300.  You've taken away their option.  

"Congrats poors, we fixed up your property.  Got rid of that slumlord.  Oh, by the way.  Your new rent is $750 now"

Who is pretending? Eliminating these run down and disgusting properties is a benefit for everyone. Those who can only afford $300 a month or whichever arbitrary number we are using for the sake of argument, typically qualify for section 8 anyways and section 8 pays a good amount. I have a 3 Bedroom in Syracuse and Section 8 is paying $1,100/month for that tenant. 

Also, if you were trying the Virtue Signaling, pretending to care about poor people, moral superiority thing. I'm not that guy. I am an investor, not a social worker. I am a property manager in many different types of neighborhoods and social classes, I evict people with sad stories all the time. I don't care. I was very poor growing up myself and my family was evicted numerous times and we deserved it every time. When I am looking at buying a property, I never think about how people will feel about increasing the property value and increasing rents.

Gentrification is mostly a good thing and in Syracuse, we need it. My investment strategy and my goal is to take terrible properties, make them beautiful, and rent them out at the top of the market for the neighborhood in which they exist. 

Originally posted by @Cody L. :

Originally posted by @Ronald Starusnak:

Originally posted by @Andy Horn:

We're buying properties where the old owners are renting units for $450-$650/month because they're so beat, when we're done with the remodel those same units could be $1,100-$1,300. \

So what happens to the people that can't afford $1,000+ but could afford the $450-$650 they were paying?  

F*** them I guess.  As long as you have better looking property to look at on your way to brunch.

I get that your heart is in the right place but when people try to virtue signal about fixing stuff up to raise up the rents they never consider the impact to people that can't afford nice places.  These evil slumlords are often providing housing that they can't afford from anyone else. 

Who cares about those people lol. I can tell you're from California. You're on a real estate investing website, go start a gofundme for those people or something. My heart isn't in any place, I am an investor and I make decisions with my brain not with my heart and not with emotion. 

Increasing property values is the best thing for everyone, when the property values increase and we have higher rents we typically have lower crime, lower crime spurs business growth, more jobs & higher paying jobs, better funded schools from more sales tax and property taxes, area becomes more desirable and it keeps getting better. 

Let's improve these areas and the schools and hopefully it results in less people who can't afford market rent but seriously, pricing people out is not even a consideration when I look at buying a property. 

Originally posted by @Ronald Starusnak :

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Ronald Starusnak:

Originally posted by @Andy Horn:

We're buying properties where the old owners are renting units for $450-$650/month because they're so beat, when we're done with the remodel those same units could be $1,100-$1,300. \

1) I'm from Cali but I don't invest in Cali.  I'm too much of a dirty free market capitalist to invest in Cali where the government and the tenants basically would own me

2) I'm all for gentrification.  I actually like taking these $300 rentals, fixing them up, and jacking up the rents.  It's my whole business model.  I'm likely the investor you're trying to attract to buy out there.  I've done this with well over 1,000 units in the last 10 years.

3) I'm just playing devils advocate here as I listen to this argument all the time.  Someone comes in and says "These poor people have to live in run down stuff.  Someone should buy it and fix it up so these people don't have to live in such conditions".  Not realizing that while these people may not have "Chosen" to be poor, they did look at all their housing options and decided the dump, for $300, was either a) all they could afford or b) they didn't want to spend more for something nicer for their own reasons.    So someone (like me) comes and fixes it up, raises the rent, neighbors and people are happy, but the people who can't afford a the nicer place (and really can't afford to move) are off to try to find something else that's cheap (thus crappy)

4: "Those who can only afford $300 a month or whichever arbitrary number we are using for the sake of argument, typically qualify for section 8 anyways and section 8 pays a good amount. I have a 3 Bedroom in Syracuse and Section 8 is paying $1,100/month for that tenant."
Oh come on my man.  This is where you start to lose me.  If they could do that, they'd do that.  And wouldn't be in a $300 place.  Thus there would be no market for a $300 place, THUS WOULD BE NO $300 PLACE via the free market.   Plus, are you really saying that rather than having crappy options that people can afford ON THEIR OWN we should turn them all into nicer places, with higher rents, and then let the government (us, tax payers) pay instead?  Yeah, pass on that.

We agree more than we disagree.  I just maybe get a bit 'triggered' (hey, although I'm a far right extremist, I can be 'triggered' too right?) when people use the word 'slumlord' (despite, IMO, not being one).   I'm just open about saying I don't want those tenant types in my area.  I know they're going to get f'd over by fixing the places up.  By gentrification.  I don't pretend I'm doing it to make their world a better place.  I fully understand these 'slums' serve a market purpose and are not 'bad'.  Just like cheap crappy food options are not 'bad'.  We can't all eat organic local farm kale salad smoothies.