Rental Property Investor · Ramapo, NY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 108 votes
Did that subject title get your attention? Good! :) I saw this super-hype phrase used in a property listing yesterday. It also said Troy is the "new Saratoga Springs". The question I pose to our august Upstate New York contributors is - is this all hype, is there something to it, or a mix of both? Is Troy really "up and coming" or has there just been a slow improvement in certain areas?
I'm so glad to see this post and the feedback about Troy. I've been a Manhattanite since '93, and started investing in Troy in '04. I acquired multifamily buildings there between '04 and early '06, then again from '09 to end of '14, and haven't yet sold any. Troy continues to be the epicenter of my operations, and I've leveraged my team to expand into Waterford and Mechanicville(I'm in Albany and other areas too, but Troy contains a very high percentage of my stuff.)
It's come a long way since I started there, and the rent growth has been pretty decent. I wouldn't compare it to Brooklyn just yet, and I don't think the Capital District has been sufficiently magnetic to compel the influx of hipsters and yuppies required to make it feel like the chic parts of Brooklyn. Absent proper job growth in Albany and Troy, I'm concerned that Troy's upward trajectory will not continue as it has in the recent past. But if local job growth is good, I suspect(and hope) that Troy's renaissance will continue.
It's a fun place to be, and cost of living is quite reasonable. There's abundant industrial space for those looking to start companies, as well as reasonably priced office space, and government is generally friendly towards investors, though I've had some dust-ups with them of late. Finding well-priced real estate(relative to rent) seems to be a fool's errand nowadays- five or six years ago, I could buy a poorly-functioning two family for what a shell or gut-rehab costs today. And well-functioning two family buildings are priced such that creating substantial cash flow is challenging(although I've moved on from this type of product, it is a decent barometer.) Landlord-tenant court is very favorable for investors in Troy. I have to admit, I have a landlord-crush on a certain judge. Shh, don't tell anyone.
Schenectady has repelled many investors since I've operated in the Capital District(I won't elaborate on the reasons, that's for another thread,) and I doubt a casino will change their fortunes. If gambling were such a panacea, Atlantic City would be smoking hot by now! But even a savvy businessman like Donald Trump couldn't keep his casinos open there(I thought the house never loses? OK, that's it for politics today, sorry about that.) I also have avoided Cohoes for investments for Schenectady-like reasons. Waterford has proven rather decent, even though their local government seems to go out of their way to be difficult sometimes.
Brian, I picked up a building in Mechanicville in '13, and I told my closing attorney(who lives in Stillwater) about the development that was going to increase values. He laughed at me, and said it'll never happen. Unfortunately, he's winning that bet! I'm still hopeful, however my hopes are fading on that point.
If anyone has Troy questions, please feel free to DM me, I could chat about Troy all day(as evidenced from the above 200 page post.)
Jamesville, NY · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 34 votes
9y
I went to college in Troy (graduated about 5 years ago) and have friends that live and work there. It has made great improvements in the past 10 years and is becoming much more "hip" than the run-down reputation it used to have. Having said that, I think it still has a long way to go to rival the feel of Saratoga or Brooklyn (that one is quite the stretch for any upstate city).
My question is what is the draw to Troy beyond some great grassroots growth from the locals? What is pulling people there rather than Latham or Schenectady (now that it'll have the casino)?
I think Troy could continue to improve, but I don't think I'd count on it being exponential.
Rental Property Investor · Troy, NY · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 17 votes
9y
I was a Troy resident for the last 3 years and I lived right in Historic Downtown. I personally love Troy and since I moved a few months back miss it, I live just up the road but it's not then same. There is a great since of community in the DT area. The whole New Brooklyn thing was a coined term by 3 or 4 guys that have moved to the area from Brooklyn in the last few years and have opened businesses and have inspired others to move up to give Troy a chance as the area is in a pretty big "growth" stage and Brooklyn has got ridiculously expensive.
Troy numbers: nice 2 BR in a brownstone apartment 5 years ago would rent for $700 now they can go for upwards of $1500. These guys hit the market right and were buying 5 to 7 unit buildings for around $200k and now they are killing it.
Now you can't find anything, it's all been bought up. But that has put a highlight to the surrounding neighborhoods and has caused some gentrification and made those neighborhoods much more approachable for an investor. You can pickup 2 families for around $80k and still get $900+/month for a 3BR.
Rental Property Investor · Ramapo, NY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 108 votes
9y
Hey @Account Closed, thanks for the input and sharing your personal experience! I also thought that the Brooklyn comparison was rather farcical but I didn't want to come out sounding opinionated in the first post. Eric, I do like the look of some of the properties in the surrounding area. And a 2 family for $80k that rents for $900 & $700 is already the 2 percent rule!
Investor · Wynantskill, NY · Member since 2013 · 180 posts · 77 votes
9y
not having spent much time in Brooklyn and not knowing what the comparisons are I would definitely agree with some of the comments that @Eric Brundige shared. It's a great place to be now and has greatly improved in the last 7-10 years. Finding real estate in the booming area is now very expensive and even the properties that are run down are owned by owners who want a higher price even if their building is in bad shape. Hopefully they continue to grow into surrounding areas which are still looking and feeling like the old Troy from years ago.
Also, Troy is nothing like Saratoga. Two great but very different markets.
Finally, I was having lunch with a friend in Kingston (about an hour south of Troy) earlier in the week and it's funny because he said that the downtown area in Kingston is being called Brooklyn North. Apparently everyone wants to be Brooklyn??
Rental Property Investor · Troy, NY · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 17 votes
9y
I think as soon as a Hipster vibe starts to happen it gets labeled. I wonder what they use on the West Coast New...San Francisco, Seattle, maybe Portland? LOL! But if they are talking about growth I guess the New Brooklyn label isn't too bad. BTW some of the old school Troy people which are called Troylet's hate the "New Brooklyn" label.
Real Estate Agent · Albany/Schenectady/Troy, NY · Member since 2016 · 74 posts · 35 votes
9y
I think the Brooklyn comparison comes from the reputation for Brooklyn to be gritty. Troy has benefited from a massively popular farmers market which draws people (myself included) in from the burbs. (https://www.troymarket.org/the-market/) I usually pick up some homemade pasta and excellent homemade Hummus from Freddy's. However, just on the other side of the parking garage there is a bar with drunk/passed out/homeless folks outside on Sunday mornings. Broken window glass on sidewalk last time I went while loading up my strollers also reminds me of Brooklyn.
Here is a better crime map for Troy with data from the Police. It's not murders every day like Chicago, but plenty of crime going on with the occasional murder. Several years ago I had Police draw weapons across the hood of my car as I took a shortcut off Oakwood Ave to intercept someone robbing a convenience store.
Rental Property Investor · Ramapo, NY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 108 votes
9y
@Brian Rosher, thanks for the info and the new tool for my investing toolbox, communitycrimemap.com! BTW, I was looking at an MLS property in Mechanicville about a month ago, do you invest where you live? How is the area? Seems like a nice town.
Real Estate Agent · Albany/Schenectady/Troy, NY · Member since 2016 · 74 posts · 35 votes
9y
Hi @Moshe H., City of Mechanicville is a blue collar town. You can probably cash flow, there are a lot of multis, but they are pretty old and not much appreciation potential. There is an intermodal facility in town and a silicone plant down the road in Waterford providing solid employment potential. A developer has been looking to build 200 apartments along the river for years, this could cause some more growth in town, but residents are opposing.
Some places with Mechanicville or Waterford postal address are actually Town of Halfmoon, which is in top tier Shenendahowa schools and good appreciation potential, but less cash flow.
I'm so glad to see this post and the feedback about Troy. I've been a Manhattanite since '93, and started investing in Troy in '04. I acquired multifamily buildings there between '04 and early '06, then again from '09 to end of '14, and haven't yet sold any. Troy continues to be the epicenter of my operations, and I've leveraged my team to expand into Waterford and Mechanicville(I'm in Albany and other areas too, but Troy contains a very high percentage of my stuff.)
It's come a long way since I started there, and the rent growth has been pretty decent. I wouldn't compare it to Brooklyn just yet, and I don't think the Capital District has been sufficiently magnetic to compel the influx of hipsters and yuppies required to make it feel like the chic parts of Brooklyn. Absent proper job growth in Albany and Troy, I'm concerned that Troy's upward trajectory will not continue as it has in the recent past. But if local job growth is good, I suspect(and hope) that Troy's renaissance will continue.
It's a fun place to be, and cost of living is quite reasonable. There's abundant industrial space for those looking to start companies, as well as reasonably priced office space, and government is generally friendly towards investors, though I've had some dust-ups with them of late. Finding well-priced real estate(relative to rent) seems to be a fool's errand nowadays- five or six years ago, I could buy a poorly-functioning two family for what a shell or gut-rehab costs today. And well-functioning two family buildings are priced such that creating substantial cash flow is challenging(although I've moved on from this type of product, it is a decent barometer.) Landlord-tenant court is very favorable for investors in Troy. I have to admit, I have a landlord-crush on a certain judge. Shh, don't tell anyone.
Schenectady has repelled many investors since I've operated in the Capital District(I won't elaborate on the reasons, that's for another thread,) and I doubt a casino will change their fortunes. If gambling were such a panacea, Atlantic City would be smoking hot by now! But even a savvy businessman like Donald Trump couldn't keep his casinos open there(I thought the house never loses? OK, that's it for politics today, sorry about that.) I also have avoided Cohoes for investments for Schenectady-like reasons. Waterford has proven rather decent, even though their local government seems to go out of their way to be difficult sometimes.
Brian, I picked up a building in Mechanicville in '13, and I told my closing attorney(who lives in Stillwater) about the development that was going to increase values. He laughed at me, and said it'll never happen. Unfortunately, he's winning that bet! I'm still hopeful, however my hopes are fading on that point.
If anyone has Troy questions, please feel free to DM me, I could chat about Troy all day(as evidenced from the above 200 page post.)
Contractor · Troy, NY · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 2 votes
9y
I have lived in South Troy for almost 10 years. Yes, it's run-down and has a bad rep, but isn't that bad. S. Troy is 2 miles or less from highway, colleges & downtown. I believe there is opportunity worth looking into for the right investors - many gut and rehab opportunities - even warehouse and empty buildings for sale. If you need a contact or pair of eyes, let me know.
Rental Property Investor · Ramapo, NY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 108 votes
9y
Hey @Jeff B., the intent/claim was that, just like Brooklyn, it's an area that's undergoing a transformation from gritty/working class/hi-crime to hip/up-and-coming/rising prop values, and that's what this thread is about. Not that it's literally like Brooklyn (it's much, much smaller as well). Incidentally, it's not actually commutable but a businessman could go back and forth 5 or 6 times a month probably and it wouldn't be such a big deal. Politicians and lobbyists go from NYC to Albany all the time.
Real Estate Agent · Tarrytown, NY · Member since 2016 · 149 posts · 63 votes
9y
@Ryan Bakerian Any area, streets, general locations you think have potential / are the best in Troy? Not too familiar with the town but would like to do some researching.
@Ryan Bakerian Any area, streets, general locations you think have potential / are the best in Troy? Not too familiar with the town but would like to do some researching.
Thanks!
There's a lot of good investment areas as Troy is central to RPI among many businesses. They are really trying to revitalize the city. You have to watch property taxes however as they can get high as it's Rensselaer county.
Rental Property Investor · Denver · Member since 2017 · 121 posts · 121 votes
9y
I'm an Albany native living in Denver currently. Thinking of buying a place in downtown of either Troy or Albany - for a buy & hold w/ 30 yr horizon which market looks more promising?
I know when I come home for the holidays at least and meet up with friends Troy is where we end up grabbing drinks. Doesn't mean the job/rental market is there however.
Troy, NY · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 11 votes
9y
@Jim S. I'm a Colorado native currently living in Denver and moving to Troy this summer and am trying to learn as much about Troy as I can. I've visited RPI many times, but have only been to downtown Troy a handful of times. It does seem quite vibrant with a nice mix of restaurants/bars and shops.
One thing that's popped up is flood insurance. Apparently Troy is in a FEMA flood zone and lenders are requiring flood insurance. There have been some articles in the Timesunion about the rising premiums. Just something that was brought to my attention and thought I'd pass along.
Unfortunately I can't help you with your real question of which market looks the most promising in the long term and I look forward to hearing other responses.
Investor · Albany, NY · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 0 votes
9y
most of Troy south of ferry st (including washington park) is in a flood zone my lender required a minimum 250k policy on the property although I bought the property for much less ($3500 per year expense) and is or at least was reflected in depressed prices in those neighborhoods