Just Realized I’ve Been a Landlord… Not an Investor
Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes
Just Realized I’ve Been a Landlord… Not an Investor
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Brian TeeterBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Little Rock, AR · Member since 2021 · 75 posts · 64 votesAs Bruce said "Been there / done that." After doing this for 30 years in Little Rock, have made a jillion mistakes and taken my lumps. I like to think I have a masters degree and PHD worth of lessons I have paid for and learned (the hard way)! But cant put them on my resume.
But good for you on not getting discouraged and instead, retooling and moving forward.
Dont forget: While BRRRs are great, there are other strategies. For example, purchasing an existing, occupied rental. Check with property management companies in your target area. Inquire if they have owners looking to sell. Ask to be added to their list of buyers for future listings. These properties will be vetted, have history and performance you can analyze. Will likely be rented on day one, etc. I literally had an owner contact me yesterday that he is ready to sell 3 properties because he wants to 1031 into a commercial property. Not selling becasue they are bad, just because he has another opportunity. In these type of situations, you can usually get a good deal because the owner is motivated to sell.
Keep on keeping....!
Turnkey Property Management4.8168 Reviews
29 Replies
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes1y
Quote from @William Miller:
Hey BP fam — had a bit of a moment today.
I finally learned how to run real numbers (shoutout to everyone who posts breakdowns here — you’re the real MVPs), and decided to put my own properties to the test.
Let’s just say… ouch.
My Arizona property? Not perfect, but with some tweaks it can work.
My Texas property? Straight up a liability. Low appreciation, breakeven (at best) rent, and just eating up my growth potential. It’s basically a roommate who doesn’t pay rent and eats my snacks.
This whole time I thought I was investing — turns out, I was just “holding.” Huge difference.
Now I've got a new mindset: no more dead weight. I'm focused on real BRRRR deals that cash flow and grow long-term.
Crazy how learning the math turns confusion into clarity. Anyone else have that moment when you realized your “assets” were actually just expensive lessons?
Been there. It’s a gut check when you realize you’re not investing, you’re just owning. The math doesn’t lie — and once you learn it, the whole game changes. I’ve had my share of “learning experiences” that looked like assets on paper but turned out to be holding me back. Good on you for digging into the numbers and pivoting. That mindset shift will pay off more than any single deal.
Real estate is the long game, remember that too.
7e investments53 Reviews - Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes1y
Least you learned now, not after making more bad buys. Many never learn and wonder why their "assets" aren't growing as they hoped. BRRRs are wonderful. Make sure you run #'s, verify the ARV/rehab and you'll be OK. Can you sell that TX property if it is not doing so hot?
- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
Quote from @Caleb Brown:
Least you learned now, not after making more bad buys. Many never learn and wonder why their "assets" aren't growing as they hoped. BRRRs are wonderful. Make sure you run #'s, verify the ARV/rehab and you'll be OK. Can you sell that TX property if it is not doing so hot?
If I sell, I wouldn't get much maybe 20k after fees and all, Its in west Texas the oil fields. I'm Thinking about owner finance. Haven't really decided thinking about just cutting my losses.
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
We've probably all been there/done that! Good for you for posting, maybe other new investors will take notice. Some properties like yours just need an attitude adjustment and a little tweaking, others need a solid analysis to see if the numbers will ever work, and maybe they need to be sold and move on....
- 1yBrian TeeterBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Little Rock, AR · Member since 2021 · 75 posts · 64 votes
As Bruce said "Been there / done that." After doing this for 30 years in Little Rock, have made a jillion mistakes and taken my lumps. I like to think I have a masters degree and PHD worth of lessons I have paid for and learned (the hard way)! But cant put them on my resume.
But good for you on not getting discouraged and instead, retooling and moving forward.
Dont forget: While BRRRs are great, there are other strategies. For example, purchasing an existing, occupied rental. Check with property management companies in your target area. Inquire if they have owners looking to sell. Ask to be added to their list of buyers for future listings. These properties will be vetted, have history and performance you can analyze. Will likely be rented on day one, etc. I literally had an owner contact me yesterday that he is ready to sell 3 properties because he wants to 1031 into a commercial property. Not selling becasue they are bad, just because he has another opportunity. In these type of situations, you can usually get a good deal because the owner is motivated to sell.
Keep on keeping....!
Turnkey Property Management4.8168 Reviews- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
Quote from @Brian Teeter:
As Bruce said "Been there / done that." After doing this for 30 years in Little Rock, have made a jillion mistakes and taken my lumps. I like to think I have a masters degree and PHD worth of lessons I have paid for and learned (the hard way)! But cant put them on my resume.
But good for you on not getting discouraged and instead, retooling and moving forward.
Dont forget: While BRRRs are great, there are other strategies. For example, purchasing an existing, occupied rental. Check with property management companies in your target area. Inquire if they have owners looking to sell. Ask to be added to their list of buyers for future listings. These properties will be vetted, have history and performance you can analyze. Will likely be rented on day one, etc. I literally had an owner contact me yesterday that he is ready to sell 3 properties because he wants to 1031 into a commercial property. Not selling becasue they are bad, just because he has another opportunity. In these type of situations, you can usually get a good deal because the owner is motivated to sell.
Keep on keeping....!
I haven't even thought of that, that's such a great idea!
- 1yBenjamin AakerPro MemberRental Property Investor · Brandon, SD · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I had that moment when I realized my single family residences were barely above water and I could do much better in multifamily.
- Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes1y
It's the hardest thing to explain to a new investor. It's like they don't hear what you are saying, except anything that has to do with the word cash flow.
Real estate is not particularly good at cash flow. You are investing for equity growth and cash flow is a derivative of equity. I would say somewhere to the tune of 7% of equity. If you want 70k cashflow you need a million in equity. Once you wrap your head around that idea, you start seeing properties in a different light.
We hold free classes at the RPA in Milwaukee and one of them is how to make a million in REI. In the Q&A I had a gentlemen ask what he should do: he had been a landlord in the inner city for 35 years with a sizeable duplex portfolio, does most of the work himself and said he can't retire. He had to refinance some of his properties to pay for roofs and other large capex items and after 35 years he can't retire, he has very little equity. It's all "cash-flow" properties, he did not invest for equity.
If you are new and don't follow what I am saying, go to the BP calculator, plug in a hypothetical number of 1 million property value and 10k in rents and run then numbers and then see what happens over 10, 20 and 30 years.
Thanks for sharing your experience @William Miller and good luck for your next moves! I think you'll do great, we've all been there at some point
- Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 24 votes1y
For your Texas property, can you build more bedrooms in the house and rent by the room? This Co Living model is gaining momentum in markets in Texas, Colorado, Charlotte, Atlanta, and many others. The numbers are looking impressive when this is managed well. Take a look at Scale Your Real Estate with Sam Wegert. Brandon Turner has an episode on his better life podcast featuring Sam and his network. There are also operators who are leasing their properties to sober Living organizations. They run the properties and manage the leases. These groups even manage a rehab or refit if you need to add bedrooms. And, these appear to be cash flowing in the 11% range. You can find more information about them if you look up Rooted sober Living. There's a better life podcast episode about that as well. With this crazy market, it seems like it's all about being able to pivot. Good luck with everything!
- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
Appreciate you taking the time to share all that I hadn’t looked too deep into the co-living or sober living model yet but it’s definitely something I’m going to dig into now. I hadn’t thought about converting to a room-by-room setup or partnering with one of those orgs.
That Texas property is older, but I’ll check the layout to see if it’s even doable to add bedrooms without overbuilding for the neighborhood. If the numbers check out, it could be a way to turn what’s been a dead asset into a cash flow machine.
I’ll look up Sam Wegert and that podcast too. Really appreciate you pointing me in that direction. This whole journey’s been one pivot after another, so I’m definitely staying open-minded. Thanks again.
- Real Estate Broker · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2015 · 299 posts · 90 votes1y
A common mistake is that that Landlord's let the market slip away from them as far as rents go. The Government is raising our rents annually along with insurance and utilities each year that you don't adjust your rents to stay at market. This is a business, and we need to keep our emotions out of it. Run it like a management company would. Eventually even the nicest tenants will move on and you will be kicking yourself for not charging more rent. Treat it like a business and not a hobby. If the building can't cashflow any more then sell it and starker into something else. This will help you sleep better at night...
- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
@Gregory Chadwell that's a huge mistake Iv made in the past not raising rents! If decide to keep one of the two rentals I have I'm for sure doing that to atleast break even in cash flow.
- 1yNicholas L.Pro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
hello. thanks for the transparency. if you wouldn't mind what are the specifics on the TX property?
also, i noticed you said "BRRRR deals that cash flow." in my experience a well done BRRRR won't cash flow - it's an equity play only at this time. thoughts?
- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
Hey appreciate the message. The TX property is in Big Spring it’s an older house that rents for $1,170 with a mortgage around $889. But once I factor in reserves and everything, it’s actually losing money monthly. That’s what really got me thinking differently.
And yeah I’ve heard a lot of people say BRRRR is more about equity plays these days, especially with rates where they are but I’ve also seen some examples where guys are still getting decent cash flow, usually by buying way under market, doing light rehab, or going after smaller markets.
I’m still new to all this, just trying to get a few solid deals under my belt and figure out how to balance equity and cash flow. I’d love to hear more about what your experience has been like too.
- Realtor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2024 · 55 posts · 40 votes1y
Man, I felt this one hard.
I had the same realization not too long ago — thinking I was “building a portfolio,” when in reality I was just collecting properties that looked good on paper but weren’t doing much for me in real life. Once I actually ran the numbers (cash-on-cash, true expenses, opportunity cost), it was like a slap in the face.
I think a lot of us fall into the landlord trap early on — we’re managing properties, dealing with tenants, and calling it investing, but there’s no real strategy behind it. That shift from owning to optimizing is where things start to change.
It’s a tough pill to swallow, but also a powerful one. Props to you for owning it and resetting your direction. That mindset shift — focusing on real BRRRRs that actually move the needle — that’s where wealth gets built.
Keep sharing your journey, man. It’s posts like this that make the rest of us double-check the mirror.
- Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2021 · 6 posts · 5 votes1y
@William Miller been there too! I've learned to "live by the numbers" and completely take emotion out of it. My first pure rental I thought I had great numbers when they were below average to average at first. Tough learning lesson, but gotta start somewhere. Luckily that one appreciated like crazy because it was in Charlotte, NC. So I got lucky
- Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2025 · 27 posts · 3 votes1y
Hi @William Miller, great insight and totally relatable — that moment of clarity hits hard but sets you up for real growth. If you ever need additional funding for future BRRRR deals, feel free to reach out. We buy Real Estate Notes and may be able to help support your next investment move.
- 1yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesWhat metrics have you used to determine that one property has good potential price appreciation and another doesn’t? I’m asking because this is the most difficult thing to figure out. I’ve been continually surprised when an area or type of real estate value pops 50% - or falls 60%. Many investors will claim - and believe - they “saw it coming”, they anticipated it, or they just “knew it”. Bull s..t! Our memories are very selective.
Quote from @William Miller:
Hey BP fam — had a bit of a moment today.
I finally learned how to run real numbers (shoutout to everyone who posts breakdowns here — you’re the real MVPs), and decided to put my own properties to the test.
Let’s just say… ouch.
My Arizona property? Not perfect, but with some tweaks it can work.
My Texas property? Straight up a liability. Low appreciation, breakeven (at best) rent, and just eating up my growth potential. It’s basically a roommate who doesn’t pay rent and eats my snacks.
This whole time I thought I was investing — turns out, I was just “holding.” Huge difference.
Now I've got a new mindset: no more dead weight. I'm focused on real BRRRR deals that cash flow and grow long-term.
Crazy how learning the math turns confusion into clarity. Anyone else have that moment when you realized your “assets” were actually just expensive lessons?
I would assume you’ve looked at PAST value performance, and extrapolated future value to determine which properties are likely to increase above the average rate of inflation and which below. If so, your results long run will be no better than flipping a coin. Some investors attempt to employ all kinds of macro, micro, and mini economic factors into their analysis - auto sales are expected to be down 20%, family formations will increase until 2031, taxes will be increased to 40%, etc. And it APPEARS as if some big players in the real estate field are actually able to successfully invest with this analysis - until you look closer. Then you find that the “statistics” are skewed by “survivor bias”, mergers of REITS, property transfers at artificial prices (seller finance at 0 interest, etc.) and a tendency to make unfavorable history “disappear”.
Other investors have some “non public” information, or unique “understanding” of factors that could result in near or mid term increase value of certain properties. These can result in very lucrative buys - if the information is correctly analyzed and if something doesn’t occur to “derail” the particular forces necessary to bring about the happy conclusion.
My suggestion after 45 years investing in both residential and commercial property is as follows: Forget any backward looking analysis of how the property “behaved” in the past; analyze only the FUTURE and base your investment decision on that. DIVERSIFY because you’ll OFTEN be wrong, and decide if the property is a short term play, a medium term speculation, or a long term investment.
An additional note - I’ve read some posts that stated (and rightly so) that cash flow is often illusionary and often insignificant - and doesn’t actually playa big role in your ultimate ROI. Then why is cash flow SO important? Because it gives the investor STAYING POWER. With a negative monthly outgo, even the well heeled investor grows tired of writing a check and looks to “get out”,usually at a low price and at the most inopportune time. The less well heeled investor may have no choice but to sell with the “alligator” to feed. But, TIME often makes up for most mistakes in real estate, and a positive cash inflow provides the investor with the ability to keep ownership through the recession and have ownership of a much more valuable asset - which can be liquidated (if the investor chooses) fora much higher price after the market “turns”.- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
Appreciate the insight. I’m still learning, but I’ve come to the same conclusion—none of us really know what’s going to pop or drop. I mainly focus on cash flow and staying power, like you said. If it appreciates, great. If not, I can still hold it and ride out the cycle.
I do look at job growth, migration trends, and planned developments, but I treat appreciation like a bonus—not the strategy. Thanks for the reminder to diversify and stay in for the long game.
- Member since 2025 · 9 posts · 8 votes1y
What did you find out or what did you learn that was the pivot point? How long had you been holding onto that property? What are you seeing now that you didn't see before?
- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
Honestly, the big pivot was realizing I was holding properties that barely cash flowed and were tying up too much equity. I’ve had one of them for about five years, and at first I just assumed appreciation would carry it. Now I see how important it is to focus on cash flow and velocity of money getting that equity moving, not just sitting.
What I didn’t see before was how long “dead money” can stall your growth. I’m shifting toward properties where I can force value, pull my money back out, and still cash flow. That’s what’s changing the game for me. Learning the math was an eye opener for me. Honestly finding this site and realizing I really don't know what I'm doing was the huge awakening haha. Now I'm just searching for my first deal where I actually do it right.
- 1yKaden ZimmermanPro MemberContractor · Soldotna, AK · Member since 2024 · 2 posts · 1 vote
@William Miller can you tell me the math you did to figure it out? Like what did you base it off of?
- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
Arizona house (Maricopa):
Rent’s $1,895, mortgage is about $1,479. After setting aside 30% for reserves and maintenance, I’m actually losing around $150 a month. Even if I raise rent, it won’t cash flow well with a higher mortgage if I refi.
I’ve got around $80K in equity just parked there, not earning anything. So when I ran it like a BRRRR deal, I realized — I’d never buy this property today.
Texas house (Big Spring):
Rents for $1,170, mortgage is $889. Take out 30% for reserves, and I’m negative about $70 a month. And that’s with low appreciation in the area.
I also had no tenant for 4 months earlier this year due to damage, so I’ve already been eating holding costs. Equity is super low, probably $10–15K, so it’s not worth pulling anything out.
Bottom line — neither property gives me cash flow, and both are slowing me down. They’re not helping me scale, and once I looked at the real numbers, I saw I’m better off pulling the equity and putting it into something that actually works.
Now I'm no pro at this and I'm sure I'm probably missing something being that I'm still new to this. But the math to me doesn't make a lot of since on why I would keep these properties. I didn't buy them with an investing mindset. I bought them thinking I knew what I was doing when I obviously didn't 😂. Talking to people who do this for a living was very very humbling.
- 1yWendy StapletonBusiness MemberSpartanburg, SC · Member since 2025 · 3 posts · 2 votes
Since you are near the oil field, I would assume there are contractors coming and going for shorter projects. Have you considered a furnished mid-term strategy for the Texas property? Rental rate should be 2X the long term rates so that may help you see some good cash flow from the property.
Upstate SC Homes, LLC514 Reviews- Member since 2020 · 64 posts · 145 votes1y
I never even thought of that — but that actually makes a ton of sense. The property’s literally right near all that oil field activity, and I know there’s a steady stream of guys coming in for projects and leaving a few months later.
A furnished mid-term rental could be a perfect fit — especially if it brings in double the long-term rate. That would completely flip the numbers on this place and maybe even make it worth keeping. Appreciate the idea big time. Definitely something I’m gonna start digging into this week.
- Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2025 · 81 posts · 43 votes1y
@William Miller I agree with the suggestion. Check out your mid-term rental competition on furnishedfinder.com. They also have market stats for landlords under the landlord resources tab.
- Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
This is what great investors do. All who have been in a while have taken jabs and body blows along the way. I had my share. I wish there was a BP and mentors when I started. At least viable ones. You assessed and regrouped. That is how it's done. You dint fold after one or two mishaps. I started off in all class Ds which was the bootcamp and rocky road to success. I got 5 PHDs of education out of that. LOL. Now I just buy properties I can add value to over the course of a few years, forcing equity and appreciation. If it's a good sell, I roll with it. If not, I maximize the great cashflow or pull-out equity for something else. That is how it all works. Education, trial and error. Congratz!
I have 2 SFH in my local market where for both, the PITI is $1,350 and they both rent at $1,750. One is a 3% mortgage and gets $400/mo principal pay down, while the other is a 7% mortgage and gets $100/mo principal pay down
The 3% SFH also is newer with less CapEx, and thus I'm getting approximately double the ROI on the 3% SFH compared to the 7% SFH. Even though they both have the same PITI and rent.
I’m considering selling the 7% SFH and moving it into sober living. If it goes well, my ROI for that move should double, improving scalability. 🤞I think you’re on a good track with your # analysis, I have learned a lot from your comments in this thread. It’s also important to remember that landlording is a long term game. I’m betting that rents going up over the next 20 years with my mortgage staying the same.
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