Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
While travelling with my good friend who is a fellow real estate investor, and giving him a hard time for investing in what I considered mediocre returns in his local market, he really one-upped me. He gave me the 40/40 challenge We are challenging each other, in partnership or on our own, to get to $40k per month in passive income via real estate, within the next 40 months.
I accept his challenge! We both see opportunities to get 25% cash-on-cash returns year 1, and 50% cash-on-cash returns year 2, investing in properties we can convert from long-term to vacation rentals. Earning 25-50% compounding and utilizing lots of leverage, I think I can get to $40k per month in the next 3-4 years.
Writing this post will help me focus on the goal. As will our mutual friend, who is going to document our progress every week via email to the two of us. I know I can do this, or come close!
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
10y
Well that is an amazing goal. I like the idea you focus on cash flow not a number of properties. If you can get there with fewer but more profitable deals that is better. To many people focus on a number of units, and wind up having an incentive to do more bad deals instead of fewer good deals.
Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
10y
@Benjamin WendellGood to see someone else from Reno on BP. I went from nothing to $10k cashflow in 2 years, I bet I can go from $10k to $40k in the next 3 or 4!
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
10y
Well that is an amazing goal. I like the idea you focus on cash flow not a number of properties. If you can get there with fewer but more profitable deals that is better. To many people focus on a number of units, and wind up having an incentive to do more bad deals instead of fewer good deals.
Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes
10y
That shouldn't be a problem if you have a plan, stick to it, and most importantly...you find the right market to invest in. I'm not sure CA is that market. Just use the GPS System, non-lienable debt, and build a power team so you can execute many properties at once. 40 months, for just over $3k a month really isn't that hard...ion the right market.
@Benjamin WendellGood to see someone else from Reno on BP. I went from nothing to $10k cashflow in 2 years, I bet I can go from $10k to $40k in the next 3 or 4!
I'd be interested to know how you pulled that off Benjamin. It's what I aim to do but can't envision yet just doing real estate.
Investor · SF Bay Area, CA · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 5 votes
10y
John D. I would love to hear how you did that. I have given myself that target and I'm focusing on Multifamily to achieve it but it will be interesting to hear your story. Also, is this net cash flow?
Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
10y
So....you're going to leverage yourself into as many mortgages as you can and spend the next 30 years going grey, hoping that any downturn won't bankrupt you?
@Bram Spiero Sorry to disappoint, but that wasn't me! @John D.was responding to me saying that he was generating $10 cashflow in 2 years. Let's try to get him to respond because I am interested as well!
Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
10y
I can probably get this done with five $1mil properties, generating close to $100k in annual cashflow each. I am looking at cases where we can 4x gross rents received, and 2x or better NOI, by converting long-term rentals to short-term vacation rentals.
In an economic downturn, our revenues would need to be cut more then in half, before they would become cashflow negative. That is one of my concerns though, and I am trying to get more data on the impact of economic downturns on these types of properties.
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Hey @Joe Villeneuve they want to new $40K per month, not $40K per year. That is way beyond what my goals are. I do not think I could pull that one off in my market. I would imagine a good BNB rental by the day could make a drastic change to the bottom line.
Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2015 · 201 posts · 95 votes
10y
What an incredible goal. If you haven't already - you'll want to start with building a network of investors/lenders, partners and anyone else needed to pull off such a feat. Where are you at with CF currently and what assets are you starting with? Are you and your friend full-time REI or doing it on the side?
It has taken me almost 5 years just to get close to $5K/mo cash flow investing in my free time. I feel like my biggest hindrance is saving enough for a down payment. I'm definitely following to see how you get funding and squeeze more juice out of your existing assets. I'd love to get in on a group with a similar challenge to push each other!
Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
10y
@Ryder MeehanI have $12k per month or so cashflow now. I'm concerned about my existing holdings however, the anti-marijuana legislation imposed by Nevada, Yuba, and surrounding counties will crush the cash economies and significantly hurt my renter pool, as well as my ability to flip vacant land here. I'm selling most of my existing properties.
I did have a head start with several hundred thousand I borrowed against my stock portfolio at really low interest rates. It's these funds I continue to tap into (effectively) as I sell most of my existing properties, and buy new ones focusing on vacation rentals. I've been borrowing at around 3% interest rate (secured against my equities), and netting 20% or so cash-on-cash returns, on these funds to date.
I expect it will take between $500k and $1mil in capital, to acquire the $5mil in properties over 4 years, assuming some creative financing and cash-out refi's and related along the way. That should get me close to the $40k per month goal. I'm also recently embracing and pushing on owner-carry second mortgages for 10-20% of the value of the property, to help stretch my funds further, although typically these will have a balloon payment due in a few years, which may put me in a tight spot down the road.
Hey @Joe Villeneuve they want to new $40K per month, not $40K per year. That is way beyond what my goals are. I do not think I could pull that one off in my market. I would imagine a good BNB rental by the day could make a drastic change to the bottom line.
$40k/month...I know. This goal is very market specific. I know it can be done in my market
Folsom, CA · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 2 votes
10y
Hi John D. , I'm a newbie looking for a mentor. I'm in Folsom,CA.
I Would be greatly interested to tag along with you and learn from your experience. Can I come along with you looking for houses?
While travelling with my good friend who is a fellow real estate investor, and giving him a hard time for investing in what I considered mediocre returns in his local market, he really one-upped me. He gave me the 40/40 challenge We are challenging each other, in partnership or on our own, to get to $40k per month in passive income via real estate, within the next 40 months.
I accept his challenge! We both see opportunities to get 25% cash-on-cash returns year 1, and 50% cash-on-cash returns year 2, investing in properties we can convert from long-term to vacation rentals. Earning 25-50% compounding and utilizing lots of leverage, I think I can get to $40k per month in the next 3-4 years.
Writing this post will help me focus on the goal. As will our mutual friend, who is going to document our progress every week via email to the two of us. I know I can do this, or come close!
John
I accept this Challenge, but I have 5 year plan. So I need 60 months to pull this off, and my goal is $30k just a bit less.
My plan is bit different, but our company is building 150 rental units for one company. This is a one year contract. If that works out ,we then go for 3 year contract. On the retail side we are shooting for 3 a month -for sure 2 retail builds. So taking profit from these ,and looking at Apartment building 100 plus units.( working on building a small syndicate to raise capital, but also put my own money in as the majority for the purchase of these apartment building). With a goal to cash investors out in 2 to 3 years, depending on the Market at the time. Using the profit from the sales of the other properties, and paying down the properties realistically in 10 years. Vacation rentals were in my plan , need to change that. Now I want one a condo free and clear ,but for only. ( my wife and I need a little retreat ,myrtle beach SC . Oh I met my wife their so that always our spot.
So I hope folks hold us to this ,and lets see who comes out faster.
Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
10y
Good luck Alex! I think 5 years and $30k per month is more realistic for me, but I'll call the 40/40 a stretch goal. I am thinking about a syndicate or raising some outside capital in some fashion as well, since I am pretty confident I can generate 20%+ COCR in short order, I think it makes sense to consider using other peoples money to help throw some fuel on the fire.
Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
10y
Well, it's been a frustrating few days.
I had a property I'd offered $825k on I thought I was going to get, where they went with a slightly higher offer with a loan contingency. With around $50k in improvements and furnishings, it would have grossed about $200k per year in gross rents. Minus 20% property management, repairs, capex, maintenance, etc. it would have hit my target returns.
I had a property I'd offered full asking on, $695k, with partial seller financing (which was advertised on the MLS as such). I was going to spend $250k-$300k on an addition, a pool, landscaping, moving parking, landscaping, etc. and was confident it would $220k+ in gross rents. Minus 20% property management, repairs, capex, maintenance, etc. it would have exceeded my target returns after some kind of refi. The seller decided he wanted $100k over asking as we were about to ink the contract, after I had spent $1,000 or so in engineering making sure the changes were feasible.
I have a new property I expect to make an offer on later this week. $975k purchase, with $250k second mortgage carried by the seller. I feel good about $200k per year in gross rents, after $50k or so in improvements and furnishings. That would normally be below my target returns based on the sale price, but given the seller second mortgage, I will have way less cash in, and the cash-on-cash returns should be excellent.
On all of these properties I will pay 20% or so property management, cover all utilities, and have significant costs associated with a vacation rental, so the numbers aren't quite as amazing as they may look at first blush, but excellent none-the-less in my opinion. Wish me luck!
Awesome goal! I'm just getting started in REI and have a goal along similar lines. 40k cashflow/month in 5 yrs and 80k casfhlow/month in 10yrs. Our strategies are almost identical, i'll have to look into having the seller carry a second mortgage to stretch farther, great idea.
The frustrating days are bound to come but over time, there'll be more celebratory days than frustrating ones.
It sounds like you have already but if you have not, you need to read The Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller. This book is all about these kind of goals and the thinking and strategies to hit them. All the best!
Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
10y
Hi @Simon Cox-- are you pursuing vacation rentals as well? What do your rental returns look like, as compared to purchase price, if you don't mind my asking?
I've read (well mostly listened to via audible) nearly every popular real estate or related book ever written -- thousands of hours now -- over the last 3 years or so, as well as every BP podcast! For books that are only tangentially related, or books where you need to wade through lots of fluff to find a small nugget of something useful, I sometimes listen to these while sleeping. Also some technical books related to stock trading and hedge fund quants I find tangentially related, and these get played once or twice a week while I am sleeping on a night when I'm feeling restless.