Deal or no deal? 24 Units in Washington

Deal or no deal? 24 Units in Washington

Brandon TurnerPro Member
Investor · Maui, HI · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 3k+ votes

Hey Everyone. My first major deal has come across my plate and although I've read every book under the sun about buying apartments, it is still a big step. I thought if anyone is up for the challenge, they can let me know if this is a good deal or not.

The apartment is 24 units. A friend of mine bought them new 22 years ago, owned them for around 15 years, paid them off, then sold them will seller financing 7 years ago. He is now foreclosing and will take back these apartments in 3 weeks. We have been discussing this for some time, and now I need to decide. He has offered to sell them to me for 580,000, if I can come in with only 25,000 to pay the back-taxes. This is his retirement, and he wants someone he trusts to buy it. The following is the info we have:

24 units (6 4-plexes surrounding a parking lot); average rent 475 per month = gross rent 11400/month, $136,800 per year.

only 17 units are rented (actual rent: 8075/month, $96,900 per year) . the others cannot be yet, due to their condition. The owner stopped caring for the properties 1 year ago, so when tenants moved out, the units were never prepared for new tenants. The exterior needs paint and some small siding repair (which I can do myself) and the parking lot could use some patch work. One unit is gutted to the studs, but the rest just need carpet,paint, etc. If I got this apartment, I would move in for the first year and spend my time fixing the units up one at a time, getting them rented as I go – hoping to have the whole complex online and running smoothly within one year's time. I expect the cost of materials to fix this place up to be around $30,000. So I will need around $55,000 total invested. I plan on borrowing this from either my parents or a partner (if I can find one).

Using 50% rule, expenses (not counting the cost of getting the vacant units rented) will probably end up running around 5500 per month, or 66000 annually. I did a more detailed analysis of expenses, and came up with about the same amount when I include 8% monthly maintenance, 10% property maintenance, and eventual 8% vacancy rate.

So possible NOI could be about 70,000 - so with a 8.5% cap rate (my guess at average in the area for a nice complex) the value could be $833,000 . However, AS IS, with an 8.5% cap and NOI of 30900 the value would be 364,000.

So I know that "they" say never pay for an apartment based on what it "could be" but rather what it is right now. However, my friend who is selling it to me has offered the following option for the 555,000 mortgage payment: first year $2000 per month, second year $3000 per month, and third year and beyond, 7.75% APR which equals out to about $4000 per month. This way, hopefully some of the repair money can be made from the cashflow the first 2 years.

Also to complicate things, the apartments that are renting for 475 would be able to be raised without much trouble to 525. Rents have not been raised in years and 525 is very much market rent - if the complex had the needed repairs and management in place.

So the big question is: Is it worth paying more than its worth because of the relative easy financing, low down payment, and having a step up mortgage for the first few years?

So, that's the situation. From almost every angle, I like it. But maybe someone else has different perspective. I feel like with only needing $55,000 total invested (none of which is my own money), I can own this apartment which cashflows at every step (according to my calculations). Let me know if I left out any vital information!

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Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
17y

Beyond the number crunching, there is more of a burning question, Are you sure you want to jump into it? Dealing with apartment building is no easy task and required some knowledge and experience. I think many on this site who own apartment buildings would agree that it is always better to start small (4-6 units) and that when you don't have to do much. You are talking about a neglected building with, I assume some units that required major work. It could be an adventure...
Just a thought.

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  • Property Manager · Dublin, OH · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 291 votes
    17y

    Hello Brandon,

    Short information, this sounds good, but your calculation is false.
    With a 8.5% CAP and NOI of $70k the value of the house is not $833k, this is $595k ($70k x 8.5) and NOI $30,9 with 8,5% is approx $262k.

    Thats the first, next is take this form ( http://www.a-l-a-g.com/realestate/clear.xls ) and fill it out, with all incomes and all expenses. You find the calculated CAP rate, for a 7.75% loan you need at least a 12% CAP, better 14%. Play with this form and you find your price offer for this complex.
    I think with a price of $580k you don´t find this needed CAP Rate.

    You buy the complex in the as-is condition today, so the price must fall down, sole option.

    -Uwe

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Uwe, you have to divide NOI by the cap rate, not multiply.

    Brandon, I have not gone through your entire post. It looks like you know what you are doing and I am assuming your numbers are right.

    As I see it, your main question is whether to buy based on future potential or current income. My view comes from my experience in other businesses and not necessarily the RE business. Here's what I think:

    In a perfect world, you should buy based on current income. But a reasonably smart landlord might not be willing to sell it for that price if he knows how to fix the problem and sell it a year later at a much higher price. And even if he cannot sell it at a higher price, he may believe he can get other people to buy it at something in between the current value and its expected value in a year. So unless he is desperate, it is going to be hard for you to get it at exactly the current value.

    I think it is entirely reasonable to pay a higher value than what current cash flows will demand if you know your numbers for repairs, future rents, etc. If you pay something between current and future values, you still have good upside potential.

    And with your limited experience and perhaps limited resources, your friend's willingness to give you seller-financing at favorable terms might be exactly the opportunity you need to get started in RE.

    Having said all this, I must say that I did not actually calculate with your numbers for NOI, cap rate, etc. I am assuming you have read posts about those things and have calculated right and just want to know whether it is OK to pay more than what the current rent will justify. My answer is that it is OK to pay that extra amount if you know your market, the property and your ability to make it happen.

  • Property Manager · Dublin, OH · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 291 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Vikram C.:
    Uwe, you have to divide NOI by the cap rate, not multiply.

    Vikram, divide?? Please explain these. If I have $70k / 8.5 I become 8.23 and then? I´m confused, we calculate different in Germany for the value of a house. Thanks.

    -Uwe

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Uwe, cap rate is given by this formula:

    CAP RATE = NOI / COST

    therefore

    COST = NOI / CAP RATE

    It is actually easy to think about this. The higher the cap rate, the higher your returns. This obviously means the higher the cap rate, the lower the price you are paying.

    If you multiply by the cap rate, the result will be the opposite.

  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    17y

    Beyond the number crunching, there is more of a burning question, Are you sure you want to jump into it? Dealing with apartment building is no easy task and required some knowledge and experience. I think many on this site who own apartment buildings would agree that it is always better to start small (4-6 units) and that when you don't have to do much. You are talking about a neglected building with, I assume some units that required major work. It could be an adventure...
    Just a thought.

  • Brandon TurnerPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Maui, HI · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    Hey guys, Thanks for the input.

    Uwe - I figured value by taking $70,000 NOI and then dividing by .085, which comes out to 823k; I'm pretty sure that's about right.

    Vikram -I kinda feel the same way. This seller would never consider selling for what it actually is worth, because he would rather just do the work himself and sell it for much higher. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy in thinking it might be okay to pay more because of this.

    Eddie - I've struggled with this a bit too, but I have 5 units rented right now (mix of duplex and sfh) and it doesn't feel like much of a problem. I work for myself doing handyman work, so I've got a flexible schedule. I also think i'll move in and call myself the "live in maintenance guy" while I'm fixing it up which means I can handle landlording much more hands on but can always defer questions to "I'll talk to the owner". And it could be an adventure. If I decide to proceed, I'll definitely be needing lots of support from bigger pockets. I'll live on these forums :)

    Thanks! Anything more I'd love to hear!

  • Property Manager · Dublin, OH · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 291 votes
    17y

    Vikram,
    Its clear for me this calculation, but I see we make other calcs in Germany as in the US. I will not hijack Brandon´s Topic, so I open a new one.

    Sorry Brandon ;).

    -Uwe

  • Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Brandon Turner:

    So possible NOI could be about 70,000 - so with a 8.5% cap rate (my guess at average in the area for a nice complex) the value could be $833,000 . However, AS IS, with an 8.5% cap and NOI of 30900 the value would be 364,000.

    So the big question is: Is it worth paying more than its worth because of the relative easy financing, low down payment, and having a step up mortgage for the first few years?

    If you're sure about the market cap rate then the seller is discounting the property by over $200,000. You are correct in assuming that the stabilized NOI is to be used for valuation. But from that you would subtract below the line the capex needed and also the present value of the rent loss and lease up costs. $30,000 in supplies plus your labor. Probably a lot less than $50,000 rent loss and lease up expenses. Sounds like only one unit will really take any time to get rent ready. Heck, one unit is probably less than normal vacancy. Sounds like a pretty good deal based on your numbers.

  • Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2010 · 127 posts · 76 votes
    10y

    Hey Brandon,

    I'm actually doing marketing now for smaller multi-families in Thurston County to find just this type of deal. They don't come along very often; that is to say, I haven't found one yet (Michael Quarles would probably say I need to do more pieces)! I think it's well worth due diligence. Is the price negotiable?

    The question I always have in that area is: is it in the flood zone :) ? Flood insurance can really break a budget in Grays Harbor County.  I need more information, but I might be interesting in partnering. The numbers are really intriguing and I think that even if you "overpay" for it now that it's not fully occupied, you're still getting it for a bargain considering your estimate of value. 

  • Investor · Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2014 · 317 posts · 74 votes
    10y

    @Brandon Turner

    It doesn't sound to bad of a deal but just because he is a friend I think you should still try to negotiate down. I would request to keep the financing in place as planned. I would then ask him to drop the price to 475K and here is why. You are paying the back taxes not the seller. You need to get the other units rent ready and there are always unforeseen expenses. You are going to have marketing costs and probably need to change the name of the building as well as paint it and other landscaping to show a new Omer is taking over and make it more attractive to prospective renters. Plus I'm really conservative and I also believe you should pay based on what current rents  are and not hwat they cold be.

    I feel if the seller truly wants that price the they should pay the back taxes, renovate the vacant apartments and get them rented. 

    Just my 2cents worth. Either way I hope it goes well for you and you are happy with the outcome.

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