Pursuing Bird Dogging Legally

Pursuing Bird Dogging Legally

Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes

  Hi everyone, my name is Michael and I'm a 15 year old from New York. Over the past year or so I've been trying to get into real estate but there's always a problem with either the strategy or my age. I looked into BirdDogging in the past but there were two main problems that I came across:

1) The legalities of it 

2) Ensuring that I get compensated for my work

  So I've been thinking day and night on ways to get around these roadblocks and I think I came up with a good method and I will share it with you guys with hopes that you guys will be able to tell me wether or not this will work and if it's legal.

   According to the RESPA law people bird dogging can't get payed a commission or fee after a deal closes because you have to technically be a licensed  agent or realtor in order to get payed like that. So this would make getting payed as a bird dog once a deal is closed illegal. 

So I was thinking and searching around for ways to get around this as a bird dog and this is what I came up with (and this may be wrong that's why i'm asking you guys). So what I would pretty much do is get payed on a per lead basis regardless if they close on the deal or not. I would get skip traced leads and I would either call them myself or get a VA to do it for me. Then if we find a person who is interested in selling I would get some general info about the property and leave the negotiation, due diligence, etc all up to the investor, I would provide the investor with general information like bed/bath, repairs needed, condition, but not information like the address or phone number yet. So from there if there's an investor that is interested in learning some more about the property I will get an NDA to make sure that I get payed and everything goes smoothly. I saw online that even though i'm still under 18, I can still sign an NDA. So in the NDA we would agree that I would get payed X amount when I provide the information on the lead to the investor (Keep in mind that these are leads that would be willing to sell, not just any random lead). This method would keep me from breaking any laws and it would ensure that i get payed when I'm bird dogging.

  From what I know (which isn't much) this would work and be legal in New York and New Jersey, I will also make sure that I get payed with the NDA, and this will all still work given that I'm a minor. Let me know what your thoughts are on this method and wether or not this would actually work and if it doesn't what I can do to get around this considering the conditions I'm under. Thank you in advance for all of the help, I really appreciate it!

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Investor 路 Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario 路 Member since 2008 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
8y

@Account Closed You certainly can run a lead generation business without running afoul licensing laws. You will however need a parent or guardian to enter into any contracts on your behalf until your 18. You also need to be careful of violating the Do Not Call rules since you plan on calling them.

I have heard of a telemarketing business in New York that runs surveys and sells the leads to realtors. Their survey goes something like this

"Hello, this is Michael with New Yorker Surveys. We're conducting a survey of home owners in your neighborhood today, do you have a moment to answer 3 quick questions for me?"

"Sure."

"Great! Do you currently own or rent your home?"

"I own it."

"How long have you lived at your current residence?"

"About 10 years."

"Do you have any plans to sell or move within the next year?"

"Possibly."

"Thank you for your time!"

They then send 3 of the 'possible' or 'yes' leads to local realtors as a sample of the type of leads they generate and offer to sell them a neighborhood of 2,000 houses which they will call through every 3 months for $500/month.

Hope that helps or at least gives you some additional ideas about the direction your business venture could go. And good luck!

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  • Member since 2018 路 509 posts 路 211 votes
    8y

    I find this kid entertaining. Not in a good way though. 

    Bird 馃惗 ing...... Okie dokie.

  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y
    @Caleb Heimsoth yeah it must be a glitch. And let鈥檚 see how this goes, I will give it more time than 6 months because most people my age don鈥檛 even have a job at this poInt and if they do at my age it鈥檚 only during the summer typically not during the school year.
  • Rental Property Investor 路 Durham, NC 路 Member since 2016 路 7k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    8y
    Eric Adobo I don鈥檛 know if I鈥檇 go as far as to say annoying but I gave him the same advice probably 4 or 6 months ago
  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y
    @Caleb Heimsoth yeah I took your advice because you guys were saying for me not to do something private with an investor like that because I wouldn鈥檛 be secured so I ended up not doing that. That鈥檚 why I鈥檝e been thinking of ways on how to do something were I would be secured and that鈥檚 how I came up with this idea.
  • Rental Property Investor 路 Durham, NC 路 Member since 2016 路 7k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    8y

    @Account Closed I had multiple jobs for most of the year when I was your age.  So not sure about that logic.  

    Anyways I鈥檓 a big believer in going the tried and true path to a point.  Do well in school, enjoy childhood, and go to college.  Get s degree, buy some real estate and in 15 years you鈥檒l be rich.

  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y
    @Caleb Heimsoth I鈥檓 not saying that I can鈥檛 get a whole bunch of jobs I鈥檓 just saying that it鈥檚 not very typical for someone my age to have a job like that and also this is something that I enjoy so I might as well do it. It鈥檚 better than spending my money on getting expensive clothes brands and other stuff like that. What I鈥檓 trying to get at is that I鈥檓 just doing this just because I love it. Some people like other stuff and that鈥檚 what they spend their money on and this is what I just so happen to like so this is what I spend my free time and money on. And I鈥檓 not saying that I鈥檓 going to just blow off school, I actually am a very good student in school believe it or not.
  • Lancaster, PA (lancaster pa) 路 Member since 2018 路 11 posts 路 8 votes
    8y
    Eric adobo, you need to leave the post if you think he鈥檚 annoying. Furthermore, I found myself looking into this and it seems like a good starter investment of time and energy so I don鈥檛 know why you鈥檙e trying to put him down.
  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y
    @Joshua Mondragon thanks for that but it鈥檚 honestly fine. I take people鈥檚 hatred as motivation to do even better, age definitely is not a reason for somebody like myself to just stop and not do something I love! It鈥檚 all good though
  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y
    @Joshua Mondragon although it may be against the bp forum rules so I鈥檓 not to sure about that technically on the other hand.
  • Member since 2018 路 509 posts 路 211 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Joshua Mondragon:

    Eric adobo, you need to leave the post if you think he鈥檚 annoying. Furthermore, I found myself looking into this and it seems like a good starter investment of time and energy so I don鈥檛 know why you鈥檙e trying to put him down.

     Caleb called him annoying. I find him entertaining. 

    Let's analyze.  We have grown men writing dissertations on what this fella should do. 

    In a few weeks fella will come back asking how he can get fees for bird 馃惗 ging.

    Since last time.  How maNY people have you actually talked to regarding dogging of birds? 

  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y
    @Eric Adobo actually Caleb said he wouldn鈥檛 go as far as calling me annoying and you technically said that you find me entertaining but not in a good way. So I鈥檓 not too sure how well you can comprehend English because obviously you are having trouble with it. If you can鈥檛 even do that and you are putting words in other people鈥檚 mouth I think it鈥檚 be best if you do leave this forum because I don鈥檛 mind the hate it鈥檚 just that now you鈥檙e putting words on other people鈥檚 mouth.
  • Lancaster, PA (lancaster pa) 路 Member since 2018 路 11 posts 路 8 votes
    8y
    No Mr Adobo, Caleb even said himself that he would not go as far as to call him annoying. As a 17 yo, I personally downloaded this app to further my knowledge on a topic regarding real estate, so Im sure his idea was the same in the sense that he also would like to further his knowledge about something regarding business. So for me this conversation has been helpful in giving an idea as to something I can possibly pursue as well. I鈥檓 sure onlookers of the conversation feel the same. The point is, if you read something you don鈥檛 think is educational or correct, then either help them out, or leave the page.
  • Member since 2018 路 509 posts 路 211 votes
    8y

    You need alligator skin to survive in the real world

    I have kept my 馃憚 shut. Believe me. 

    Bird-dogging is an utter waste of time. 

    . 

  • Lancaster, PA (lancaster pa) 路 Member since 2018 路 11 posts 路 8 votes
    8y
    @Michael Kantar, I would recommend you download the app on a cell or use a different approach as far as communicating on BiggerPockets, because the comments you make are usually not visible.
  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y
    @Eric Adobo there are people willing to help me out and I take their advice, think about it, and from there o do what I think is best for me. That鈥檚 why every time I make a post it鈥檚 about a different topic because there鈥檚 always restrictions that prevent me from moving further and you guys help me realize that. Once I get advice from you guys here, I use it to my advantage to try and find something new that would help me get around those certain restrictions. When I find a new topic I ask you guys because most of you guys here are in fact more knowledgeable so that鈥檚 why I always ask something new here. Although certain people tell me to just go the traditional route I am to an extent but I also want to take part in something that I enjoy doing in my free time. Is that alright for someone to do something that they enjoy doing and try to find a way to pursue that by asking people who will be able to help them in a community built for that exact reason? Last time I checked it was and it still is like that.
  • Lancaster, PA (lancaster pa) 路 Member since 2018 路 11 posts 路 8 votes
    8y
    Eric Adobo, suggestions as to what he might pursue instead ? Give ideas and input man not just comments with emojis in them. Makes you seem unprofessional.
  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y

    @Eric Adobo the business I will be conducting now actually isn鈥檛 bird dogging if you had a chance to read the whole thread you would鈥檝e known that.

  • Member since 2018 路 509 posts 路 211 votes
    8y

    The 馃専 thing now is MLOs. Master lease options.

    Many will tell you what you want to hear. A few will tell you the truth. 

  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y

    @Joshua Mondragon what do you mean your not seeing my posts? Are they just popping up blank/late or something?

  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y

    @Eric Adobo I won鈥檛 be able to do stuff like that because I鈥檓 technically a minor and won鈥檛 be able to go under contract and stuff like that.

  • Lancaster, PA (lancaster pa) 路 Member since 2018 路 11 posts 路 8 votes
    8y
    @ Michael Kantar , I don鈥檛 know it may be a glitch on my end. However, In an earlier comment you mentioned that it may be a glitch on your end. Are you using the app for the cellphone to comment/ make threads?
  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y

    @Joshua Mondragon yes I鈥檓 using the app on my phone. 

  • Yonkers, NY 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 95 votes
    8y

    maybe there鈥檚 a glitch on the app because I updated it yesterday as well, maybe there鈥檚 a glitch with the new update.

  • Lancaster, PA (lancaster pa) 路 Member since 2018 路 11 posts 路 8 votes
    8y
    I can鈥檛 read a lot of your earlier comments, so I may have missed what you are currently pursuing. If you don鈥檛 mind me asking, what are you pursuing today?
  • Member since 2018 路 509 posts 路 211 votes
    8y

    I didn't even realize this thread wasn't about bird 馃惗 gong. I was just going by your history. Sorry. 

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