Direct Mail - is it still working?

147 Replies

Originally posted by @Rob Massopust :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hi Jerryll Noorden, 

Thank you for your response. This is my first time doing DM and I got mixed response from other investors, some agrees with you and some said it still work. You brought up a few good points. Thanks for your input! 

Proof is in that pudding, nice job. I looked at Carrot, now might just do it more intensly. Thx

 Yes and that is why I say you need to think.

Does any of the people that say "yes" to DMM give you proof? Screenshots? Some friggin CONCRETE DATA that DMM is OK?

NO

NONE

ZERO

Not a STINKING person has data that supports it.

Here is MY data.

Every lead you see here is free, ans super motivated. I didn't life a finger. I don't spend a single dollar. I dont buy a stinking list I don't set up 15 phone numbers to see which mailer or which color ink performed better (are you serious?) Do you REALLY think that because the envelope was pink and not yellow you got a lead? If that is what you think (generic you, not YOU you), you really need to turn on that brain of yours. If you got a lead from a yellow postcard is because you luckily sent it to a MOTIVATED seller, not because your stinkin letter was yellow. Seriously people come on!!

I don't do skip tracing and I don't have to explain myself to anyone why or how I found them and I don't have to deal with "GET ME OFF YOUR GAADAMN LIST" from disgruntled mailer receivers.

So.. tell me again why why you would even CONSIDER DMM?

Didn't think so.

*drops mic*

 

 I had to fish out your answer :)

Thank you my man!

My client is also into DM and based on my observation, I received less call in that. I personally find it less effective as well. The other day, we're notified our mail was out, then got calls yesterday.. so far I received total of 8 calls only the entire day and 3 were interested to sell and that 3 leads only 1 qualified to what we're looking for. So I suggested my client to go digital marketing. We have lots of competitors in the business we need to be innovative and look for other ways to generate organic leads. We need to be strategic. I'm helping him in ways how I did my real estate business in Ph, I hope it will work in his business as well but I surely do it will. I'm treating his business as my own, result is a must. One thing too, if you have a CRM or a database where you encode all of your leads, keep following up the old leads you have even if it's a 2 year old lead. There are some potential leads you get in the old leads. I keep in touch to those 2 year old or 1 year old leads we have. One thing I've learned in the business for 9 years, Money is always in the follow up. 

@Jerryll Noorden in my opinion it does work. One lead can make me anywhere from $50k to $300k. If I spend $500 on so many leads and get 1 or 2 properties, don’t you think it’s worth the money invested? It just depends on your investment strategy. I wouldn’t use it if it was my only option but definitely worth it to find off market 10-50 unit deals that are tough to find

Originally posted by @Ryan Dossey :

They are a great place to start. They're something everyone should be doing. 

I don't disagree with you on SEO either. I have the #1 rank in 19 of the cities I'm in. Top 3 in most of the others. Then a few straglers in towns I wanted to see if I could rank in for fun... Like Hawaii. I've had over 1100 leads come through my carrot site. 

I have an issue with making blanket statements like something doesn't work or is a bad idea when every major player in the country is using it consistently to purchase deals. 

The original poster asked if it's still working. The answer is yes. It may not be your favorite flavor. But it is working. 

Comically we have actually seen an increase in response and conversion the past year or so as more folks have moved to cold calling, bandit signs, text blasting, PPC, etc. 

Last year we had 1,146 leads come in to my office. 60% came from direct mail. 40% came through my carrot site however according to Google Tag Manager/analytics more than half of those came from Direct Mail with our brand printed on it. Another 25% of the lead flow came from PPC, GDN, and Social Media. 

Moral of the story: If you want to do a deal a month or so you can pick one niche' and just run with it. If you want to do 50+ you're going to have to diversify responsibly. 

 But don't you offer DMM (related) services?

Is it a coincidence that you are a huge proponent to DMM? Now i know why you keep suggesting others to get the probates list. Must be a coincidence. Either way I don't particularly care. But it is really funny that it is always those that make money from it always telling people "it works".



I am telling everyone CONSTANTLY you do not NEED to pay anyone for SEO. You can do it yourself and I will help you do it for free. I am not waging a SEO vs. DMM war here.

Look you are entitled to your opinion that DMM works Ryan. It is all good.

Most people will disagree with you, as we have seen here.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM. I am not saying you can't make DMM reliable.

PLEASE focus for a second and TRY hard to understand my words.

What I AM SAYING is this:

If you have Person A, Person B, Person C, ... , Person Z , all doing DMM..

I am TELLING you just a FEW people will get results from DMM reliably.

The MAJORITY of the people will struggle and fail!

THAT is what I am saying.

OK YOU , as in you as in a single person, have luck with DMM. I truly AM happy for you! Good job. But...This is wrong DATA! True data is to collect EVERYONE that does DMM and see how many people are successful with it.

You ONLY hear from the people that make it because no one will openly report how miserably they failed. (and of course you hear from the people, that make money from telling the public that DMM works). I WISHED that every single person that failed doing DMM would reply to this thread and said "DMM did NOT work for me". THEN the public will know the TRUE face of DMM. 


This thing started because someone hired a VA from friggin Bangladesh to tell everyone "when I send out mailers it works fine". And talk about DMM as if he does it himself to buy houses. That is misleading and dishonest. And now you have a ton of people getting the wrong image about TRUE DMM.. and they fall for it and 80%+ of you WILL fail miserably.

The funny thing is that all these DMM service providers will tell you to do DMM, but they do not tell you BEFORE hand what you should expect. Sure 2K/deal may be great for DMM but are you friggin kidding me? That is a HORRIBLE cost / deal. Not (only) because it is so much money. PPC could easily run the same numbers... but the reason why it is so bad is because it is extremely unpredictable.

If your strategy is: "send as many mailers as possible and by law of probability some will stick"... that is NOT a system I would call "it works".

Imagine NASA saying, hey lets send as many spaceshuttles up to space and one or 2 should make it. No right?

Or if I told you that I have a bunch of airplanes. and I will tell you 2% of these planes will reach the destination and the rest will crash and burn. Will you put your family on one of these planes and wave them off?

No?

But you are telling others to put their money on that exact same system and run with it, and you stamp a "it works" on it.

You may have plenty of money to make DMM work and if it doesn't sure you lost a fraction.

Yeah dude, if you send out 10000 mailers out of course by the law of probability you MAY get higher chances to get a deal. But most people don't have money to burn like that. Don't understand how you can't see this?!


So yeah...

NO bud. It does not work. Not for me, not for most people. Not for most real people.

I know because I run facebook ads for my SEO company and I have had Hundreds of big players come to me telling me that DMM is NOT WORKING ANYMORE!!!! This is FIELD DATA. Actual data. Again, no room for arguing here.

But again man. If you are happy with it.. GREAT! 

Most real people, most people in the flield spending their hard earned money.... for them .. Nope.. not working.

Now look I appreciate all the data everyone has provided. Why not let people now make their OWN conclusion whether it works, and stop telling people that it works when it obviously .. does not really work. They can see from everyone's numbers that it doesn't.

MOST people that say it works simply don't know that $2k/deal is HORRIBLE. They think that is normal. Well it is not. Not for a system that truly works. In fact, I see some comments on the DMM numbers that the numbers look great. OMG.. dude if you think $5K/deal, or even $1k/deal, is GOOD?!?!?!?! Wow...seriously.. you need to wake up, look around and do an internet search on "marketing". You are living in the stone age. $1k/deal is in NO WAY OK to anyone that knows a thing about marketing! (Not) sorry if that offends some of you!

My point is this... whether it is a good number / deal for DMM is COMPLETELY irrelevant. It is CRAZY expensive. 

So in short.. get this straight.. NO SINGLE person can tell me that DMM works. You can only tell me it worked FOR YOU! that doesn't mean it works. We are discussing a lead generation STRATEGY! NOT whether a certain strategy worked for YOU or not.

Here is a question I would like all you DMM company owners to answer.

WHY don't you put on your website, your numbers. Put on your site that you are getting a $5K/deal. Hell put on your site $2k/deal. WHY DON'T YOU???

If you say DMM it is great.. PUT IT ON then!!!

Didn't think so. If you can't put it on your website you have no right to come here and say it works. You are then just a hypocrite. Seriously don't you think so?

You are telling everyone it works, but you don't show them the real numbers until put in a corner.

Do you know HOW MANY emails I received in the last 24 hours thanking me to open their eyes to the truth of DMM? It is only NOW that someone truly stepped up and exposed true DMM to the public!

Honestly I am getting tired of this. I speak truth, and most people can't handle truth. That is their problem not mine. 

For every 1 person defending DMM in open forum there are 100 that silently failed. Just keep that in mind.

Now.. all that want to do DMM, I truly wish you luck. I understand it is not about one single marketing platform, but that was never the point here was it. The question was, does DMM still work. 

The answer simply is no. It does not. Period!

Originally posted by @Ryan Short :

@Jerryll Noorden in my opinion it does work. One lead can make me anywhere from $50k to $300k. If I spend $500 on so many leads and get 1 or 2 properties, don’t you think it’s worth the money invested? It just depends on your investment strategy. I wouldn’t use it if it was my only option but definitely worth it to find off market 10-50 unit deals that are tough to find

Read my answer above here. 

@Jerryll Noorden "

I am telling everyone CONSTANTLY you do not NEED to pay anyone for SEO. You can do it yourself and I will help you do it for free. I am not waging a SEO vs. DMM war here.

"

Do you help people do it for free? If not what is your fee because I think you are selling a program too, correct?

Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen :

@Jerryll Noorden "

I am telling everyone CONSTANTLY you do not NEED to pay anyone for SEO. You can do it yourself and I will help you do it for free. I am not waging a SEO vs. DMM war here.

"

Do you help people do it for free? If not what is your fee because I think you are selling a program too, correct?

 I am spending hours on BP giving extremely valuable information how to do SEO. What my secrets are, what and how I get my results.

I am telling everyone NOT to hire an SEO company and do SEO themselves.

Don't worry about my costs. 

Get your website, and I will tell you in public right here on this forum what steps to take... for FREE!

1) Get your investor carrot website.

That is the first step.

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
 I am spending hours on BP giving extremely valuable information how to do SEO. What my secrets are, what and how I get my results.

I am telling everyone NOT to hire an SEO company and do SEO themselves.

Don't worry about my costs. 

Get your website, and I will tell you in public right here on this forum what steps to take... for FREE!

1) Get your investor carrot website.

That is the first step.

 Hi Jerryll.  Can I ask where on BP you're providing advice?  I would love to keep reading more of what you have to say.  Can you submit some articles to BP?  It would be great to hear you on a podcast.  Seriously, point me in the right direction.  I'm ready to learn!

Thank you for your response. This is my first time doing DM and I got mixed response from other investors, some agrees with you and some said it still work. You brought up a few good points. Thanks for your input!


Originally posted by @Christina Morgan :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
 I am spending hours on BP giving extremely valuable information how to do SEO. What my secrets are, what and how I get my results.

I am telling everyone NOT to hire an SEO company and do SEO themselves.

Don't worry about my costs. 

Get your website, and I will tell you in public right here on this forum what steps to take... for FREE!

1) Get your investor carrot website.

That is the first step.

 Hi Jerryll.  Can I ask where on BP you're providing advice?  I would love to keep reading more of what you have to say.  Can you submit some articles to BP?  It would be great to hear you on a podcast.  Seriously, point me in the right direction.  I'm ready to learn!

 You know something funny? I was approached to do a podcast with Biggerpockers. But it just didn't happen (yet?). I think I am just too much of a trouble maker and it is safer not to do one with me :D

Here is an Article I wrote for BP.



https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/not-taking-seo-seriously-could-cost-you

I have been meaning to do a series for BP how exactly to get free organic leads and crush your market. I have been hesitating because people are just not ready.

They think SEO is a myth, or magic, and people think it is normal to pay $2k/deal and anything cheaper than that must be a scam.

So I figured, what's the point. If they want to keep paying $2k-$5k/deal... let them. Their loss. I tried!

Originally posted by @Brian J. Kendrick :

Thank you for your response. This is my first time doing DM and I got mixed response from other investors, some agrees with you and some said it still work. You brought up a few good points. Thanks for your input!


 Yup,  some people say doorknocking works.

DOOR KNOCKING!!!

Some say bandit signs work. My point is you will ALWAYS find people that will tell you the most retarded things work.

That is why I challenged the DMM supporters to show data or shut the hell up. So now they HAD to show data, and I rest my case!

The data speaks for itself. Now you can either choose it KNOWING what to expect, or you can say: "Ohh HELLS to the Nos!"

Up to you.

;)

Originally posted by @Gerald Evans :

Yes. I have not had a deal from them yet but I have had confirmation that ppl are receiving them.

 Thank you very much for sharing this! This helps a lot of people make better decisions!

@Jerryll Noorden I have agreed with you that SEO works. I've even shown that I have the #1 ranking brand and have pulled 1,000 leads through it. It's simply not my #1 source of deals not by a long shot. I own an answering service that takes over 10k calls a month for real estate investors all over the country and the #1 deal source our users report back is Direct Mail. I'm sorry that you don't like that I teach people what is working for us. Best of luck to you. I would advise that you try to treat other professionals in the industry with respect. I personally know several of the guys you've lambasted on here and they do 50+ deals a year. @Sharad M. could have been an INCREDIBLE ally/referral partner for you. As I could have as well. As well as several others. I'm honestly surprised that BP mods haven't stepped in. PS: I actually own a full blown mail house. I just don't peddle it on BiggerPockets. I'm here to give back. Not get sales. 

Bp users: Keep in mind that even if you have the #1 ranking brand (which should be your goal!).... You're still going to show up 4th below all of the PPC advertisers. This is one of the reasons I also spend money on Google Advertising. Even though I have the #1 ranking brand I get extra leads and deals for PAYING to show up at the top. If you want to find deals for cheap or free (and fast) find my list earlier on this thread.  We spent $145 this week on PPC ads to get 4 leads. Converting at 25% to our landing page visitors. 

I found BP in 2014 I believe and it was an incredible/helpful/supportive community. 

In 2015 I wholesaled 4 or 5 deals and bout 2 SFR's with a partner on a portfolio loan. I had a full-time W2 that I was miserable at.

In 2016 I wholesaled 6 houses. I went full-time. Almost went bankrupt and learned a ton. 

In 2017 I partnered with a large buyer and we did 74 wholetale deals. I also kept 4 rentals. 

In 2018 I bought/kept 73 units for my portfolio while doing another 3 dozen wholetales. 

Last year we bought another 66 units. We also did another 3 dozen wholetales/flips. 

We do all of our management in-house. My portfolio is now 2,000 miles away from my home. If picking up 143 units in 18 months while generating multiple six figures in income selling what you don't want sounds interesting to you... Listen to the Podcast episode I did with BP. You'll learn very quickly that I'm a straight shooter. 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/biggerpockets-podcast-335-ryan-dossey


If anyone legitimately needs help with direct mail or finding deals which was the point of this post before it was troll highjacked, feel free to tag me. As @Nicole Heasley  can attest.... She shot me a PM and I sent her lists, letter copy, and how-to without even hinting about spending $1 with me. In fact I spent money to get her lists to help her out. I've been given more handups than I can count over the years.  Another member asked me for lists and I sent him 12 for free. I have NUMEROUS youtube videos on everything from finding private lenders, locating cash out refinance banks, to how to pull niche' lists for free. Comically I don't even really ever post about my companies on here because it's annoying.

You're on here for help. Not to get sold something. I by no means know everything I can only share my experience and what I know works.

Updated over 1 year ago

Jerryl I also find your use of the word "retarded" to be in extremely poor taste. PS: If you follow me on social media at all you will see me post EXTENSIVELY about the fact that we recommend a 3k a month marketing budget to get one deal. My average cost per deal is under 3k and my average profit is either a new Brrrr deal or a$17,000. I don't know any investor that wouldn't spend 3 to make 17.

What I'm about to say it not to brag, but solely for the purpose of illustrating a point.

In the last 6 months of 2019, my company made 1.1M in wholesale profits on a total direct mail spend of 18k. We do have other marketing vehicles that are supplements to the direct mail- text messages and RVM totaling an additional 3k... but they all point back to a letter we sent someone. Now a big part of the direct mail's success isn't just the effectiveness of our marketing pieces, messaging, and campaign strategy- it's based heavily on having high quality owner data and targeting a product with high profit potential when pointed towards a very specific buyer pool that's been nurtured over time. 

Another interesting note: our average monthly inbound leads from DMM in 2019 Q4 was 279, with a 4600 person mailing list. That's a 6% response rate. Pretty high for direct mail. 

Do I think any traditional wholesaler can get in the game with DMM and make a milli? nah it's not that simple. I also think the traditional wholesale game is too much of a volume business- too many leads, labor and operational burden to make the same amount of money. We're working hard to push our profit per deal higher as a 1st priority (2019 avg was 35k/deal), then our deal count up as a 2nd priority. We have 4 full time employees- I've met a handful of companies with our same net prof and most are around the 20 employee mark. 

Moral of the story, there's more to it than just the mail. The marketing methodology has to be fit to your ideal customer and product profile. 


 @Jerryll Noorden, I've see you post before with a level of web based marketing savvy that's way beyond my current knowledge level. I think you could attest to the fact that quality of execution is more important than the vehicle itself. I think people who are doing traditional wholesale and new to the game should be seeking to master the methods that you're on the forums discussing. The barrier is a knowledge barrier, which I'd take all day over a money or time barrier if I were a smart newbie who's willing to put in the effort to learn. 

Now I know you said you'd like to see numbers from people making DMM work. I'm glad to share salesforce reports, or PNL's, but I don't think you'd care too much for that. Game recognize game, anyways. Keep killing it. I could use your methods to build my investor network- I'm working hard to blow that list up. It's big now, but 10k buyers that meet our ideal profile would be a game changer. 

Originally posted by @Ryan Dossey :

@Jerryll Noorden I have agreed with you that SEO works. I've even shown that I have the #1 ranking brand and have pulled 1,000 leads through it. It's simply not my #1 source of deals not by a long shot. I own an answering service that takes over 10k calls a month for real estate investors all over the country and the #1 deal source our users report back is Direct Mail. I'm sorry that you don't like that I teach people what is working for us. Best of luck to you. I would advise that you try to treat other professionals in the industry with respect. I personally know several of the guys you've lambasted on here and they do 50+ deals a year. @Sharad M. could have been an INCREDIBLE ally/referral partner for you. As I could have as well. As well as several others. I'm honestly surprised that BP mods haven't stepped in. PS: I actually own a full blown mail house. I just don't peddle it on BiggerPockets. I'm here to give back. Not get sales. 

Bp users: Keep in mind that even if you have the #1 ranking brand (which should be your goal!).... You're still going to show up 4th below all of the PPC advertisers. This is one of the reasons I also spend money on Google Advertising. Even though I have the #1 ranking brand I get extra leads and deals for PAYING to show up at the top. If you want to find deals for cheap or free (and fast) find my list earlier on this thread.  We spent $145 this week on PPC ads to get 4 leads. Converting at 25% to our landing page visitors. 

I found BP in 2014 I believe and it was an incredible/helpful/supportive community. 

In 2015 I wholesaled 4 or 5 deals and bout 2 SFR's with a partner on a portfolio loan. I had a full-time W2 that I was miserable at.

In 2016 I wholesaled 6 houses. I went full-time. Almost went bankrupt and learned a ton. 

In 2017 I partnered with a large buyer and we did 74 wholetale deals. I also kept 4 rentals. 

In 2018 I bought/kept 73 units for my portfolio while doing another 3 dozen wholetales. 

Last year we bought another 66 units. We also did another 3 dozen wholetales/flips. 

We do all of our management in-house. My portfolio is now 2,000 miles away from my home. If picking up 143 units in 18 months while generating multiple six figures in income selling what you don't want sounds interesting to you... Listen to the Podcast episode I did with BP. You'll learn very quickly that I'm a straight shooter. 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/biggerpockets-podcast-335-ryan-dossey


If anyone legitimately needs help with direct mail or finding deals which was the point of this post before it was troll highjacked, feel free to tag me. As @Nicole Heasley  can attest.... She shot me a PM and I sent her lists, letter copy, and how-to without even hinting about spending $1 with me. In fact I spent money to get her lists to help her out. I've been given more handups than I can count over the years.  Another member asked me for lists and I sent him 12 for free. I have NUMEROUS youtube videos on everything from finding private lenders, locating cash out refinance banks, to how to pull niche' lists for free. Comically I don't even really ever post about my companies on here because it's annoying.

You're on here for help. Not to get sold something. I by no means know everything I can only share my experience and what I know works.

 Life is good. As long as people get the full truth, and not just from people with an agenda.

Seriously.. Its all good!

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:
Originally posted by @Duy Nguyen:

Hello all,

What kind of marketing strategy are you guys doing nowadays? Does DM still work in today’s competitive market? I sent out 3.9K letter this past month (I am committed for a 6 months campaign). It has been about 4 days since my mail hit, I got about 16 calls, most of them goes: “ f off”, “ don’t send me anything”, “ my house is not for sale”. No actual lead yet.

What are your thoughts? I am wondering if DM still works. Thanks in advanced

Hi Duy, Direct Mail still works but it's a long term marketing strategy and specially in a competitive market like Houston, TX you have to very careful with your list. Don't mail to list like Absentee High Equity and expect to get a deal on 1st mailing. Try more niche lists like preforeclosure, tax delinquent, water shut off, code enforcement, etc.

And IF you are going to do DM long term, then commit to 4-6 mailings to the same list. The magic of Direct Mail comes handy over long term. We get calls from people that we had mailed several months ago but they hold on to the letter or postcard and call back when they are ready to sell their house.

I would have other marketing going on also but if you have to pick a marketing strategy, pick the one you can stick with THE longest because THE MOST important thing with marketing is consistency.

 Also sending mailings to the same list is also a myth. It is an illusion it doesn't work! I am telling you it is an illusion.

It takes a long piece of text to explain exactly why this doesn't work and why it is an illusion, but I will if I have to.

Just because Direct Mail didn't work you doesn't mean it doesn't or won't work for anyone else. Here's the actual data. We closed 41 deals from Direct Mail.

I am part of several high level real estate masterminds and majority of the very top investors use Direct Mail for consistent deals. Again just because you didn't do so well in Direct Mail doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Please don't misguiding people that sending to the same list is a myth. Your incorrect statements and lack of experience about Direct Mail can hurt a lot of people in lost time and money. You are a freaking expert in SEO but that is not THE ONLY lead gen. To be honest, if I could get more traffic from my SEO I would love that because the ROI will be through the roof with SEO but you are leaving so much money on the table by not doing other marketing. We buy A LOT of houses from older people and they are not tech savvy and not going to Google to look for a home buyer.

People are reaching out to them via Cold Calling and Direct Mail. 

I have tried MANY marketing channels so I am speaking from experience.

The numbers below don't include revenue from 14 deals we have in the pipeline that will be closing soon and majority of those came from Direct Mail as well.

 FINALLY DATA!!!

ok SO your DMM cost /deal is $5000.

Thank you for being transparent and upfront.

$5K/deal is a lot.

A typical wholesale deal is 7K minus closing costs.

You barely have a 2K profit.

So I still stand by my point that DMM is not ideal.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM. I am saying is that it is not predicatble and not reliable. The more money you spend ion it the more chances you have to make a deal but it gets expensive fast.

NOW we can talk and work together and provide actual value to see where we can work on improving this.

I am not going to show you the cost of my cost /deal because it is obviously better.

Now here is what I would suggest.

Are you putting on your mailers your URL?

I am very confident you can improve your lead flow if you have a credible website and drive traffic to it by saying on your mailers "For more information and an explanation how and why we sent you a mailer, visit our website".

You will get a lot more leads.

It seems like you have really low wholesale profit of $2k per deal so I will be more than happy to give you some tips on increasing your average wholesale profit. Let me know if interested.

 Oh damn!  Sharad bringing the receipts!

I wish and sincerely hope that more people specially from my market would listen to @Jerryll Noorden and stop doing ALL marketing and just do SEO. It will make me so happy. I will even pay for their SEO services with Jerryll. 

Jerryll is happy getting one lead per day on average and making less than $5k/deal just so that he can show that his cost/deal is so low. That’s small time thinking. 

I would much rather spend $5k/deal and make $20k and do multiple deals a month than $0/deal to do one deal if that per month and only make less than $5k.

Jerryll is pushing so hard to get people to sign up for his SEO services that it’s sad and comical at the same time. I have shows actual numbers which Jerryll hasn’t shown. 

@Cody L. I presented the data but the guy making the most noise has presented no data on his business.

@Ryan Dossey no point arguing with anyone where logic isn’t applicable. 

Originally posted by @Sharad M. :

I wish and sincerely hope that more people specially from my market would listen to @Jerryll Noorden and stop doing ALL marketing and just do SEO. It will make me so happy. I will even pay for their SEO services with Jerryll. 

Jerryll is happy getting one lead per day on average and making less than $5k/deal just so that he can show that his cost/deal is so low. That’s small time thinking. 

I would much rather spend $5k/deal and make $20k and do multiple deals a month than $0/deal to do one deal if that per month and only make less than $5k.

Jerryll is pushing so hard to get people to sign up for his SEO services that it’s sad and comical at the same time. I have shows actual numbers which Jerryll hasn’t shown. 

@Cody L. I presented the data but the guy making the most noise has presented no data on his business.

@Ryan Dossey no point arguing with anyone where logic isn’t applicable. 

Do you need help counting?

Use your fingers mate if you need help

My average is between 20 and 30 leads a WEEK. 

FOR FREE!

As for my $5K/deal..

This is one of our closed deals last month for my REI business.

And if you must know.. with my SEO company try $90K in about 2 weeks

All while I tell people NOT to pay for SEO. I don;t try to sign people up. I try to empower people with the truth and knowledge so they too can become successful. I do not believe in getting rich off of people. That is why I went brutal on your arse when you pay your VA to trick people into convincing the unsuspecting newbies DMM works!

I know what it is like to be poor. I have been there not too long ago. In fact about 3.5 years ago (or so) I was at the bottom. I came to BP to seek my fortune. I learned quickly that being a seep will get you nowhere. So I stepped up and within 3 years I am making it. By NO means have I made it. But I am DEFINITELY making it.


Dude listen. When I give advice, or when I tell people to do or not do something, I back things up with DATA.

The reason I am successful is because I do NOT follow people! I make up my own strategies and I get this because I analyse DATA. NOT opinion!

So if I tell you that a system does not work.. you really should listen! If not.. well... good luck!

@Jerryll Noorden Anyone who reads this thread can come to their own conclusions on who has an agenda. Best of luck with your #1 ranking SEO brand. 

I'm going to keep using my #1 ranking Seo brand + PPC advertising + Facebook Ads + Direct Mail to generate deals for my rental portfolio as fast as my staff can handle growing responsibly. 

I would advise ANYONE doing marketing of any kind to not rely on a single channel for all of your deal flow.

Google changes its algorithm, Facebook loses targeting options as they get into more trouble, Direct Mail varies in effectiveness by the copy/targeting, and networking comes down to who you know. 

Only utilizing one form of lead generation is like only holding one company's stock. When it's good it's good. When it's bad... It's really bad.

In the same way, I don't just own C-class SFR's. I also own A- SFR's. I also own small multi (2-4). I also own a decent chunk of 5+.

Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden :
Originally posted by @Sharad M.:

I wish and sincerely hope that more people specially from my market would listen to @Jerryll Noorden and stop doing ALL marketing and just do SEO. It will make me so happy. I will even pay for their SEO services with Jerryll. 

Jerryll is happy getting one lead per day on average and making less than $5k/deal just so that he can show that his cost/deal is so low. That’s small time thinking. 

I would much rather spend $5k/deal and make $20k and do multiple deals a month than $0/deal to do one deal if that per month and only make less than $5k.

Jerryll is pushing so hard to get people to sign up for his SEO services that it’s sad and comical at the same time. I have shows actual numbers which Jerryll hasn’t shown. 

@Cody L. I presented the data but the guy making the most noise has presented no data on his business.

@Ryan Dossey no point arguing with anyone where logic isn’t applicable. 

Do you need help counting?

Use your fingers mate if you need help

My average is between 20 and 30 leads a WEEK. 

FOR FREE!

As for my $5K/deal..

This is one of our closed deals last month for my REI business.

And if you must know.. with my SEO company try $90K in about 2 weeks

Anything else you want to add?

No?

Good!

Yes. Came from DMM.

 

Aight, I'm out. 

I think next BP meetup we get you guys set up on one of the blow-up jousting rigs. 😂