All Forum Posts by: Bryan Danger

Exactly!  Like I said... somewhere in the middle (and i like the FICO idea)!!

What baffles me is that so many people from both crowds are so staunchly "against" the other.  It's almost like it's political. 
Each approach may seem odd from "the other side" but somehow that turns into a strict labelling and generalization rather than trying to find parts that might also be a good fit.

- The FIRE crowd (generally) seems so preoccupied with the stock market and hitting a single "number" that they can't possibly consider diversifying into real estate or the fact that some passive monthly income (through rent) now could shave a decade or more off how long they have to work that job they hate - but are apparently willing to keep trudging away at it anyway.  Most of the FIRE forums I've joined send all real estate interests/questions to a set of posts talking about how horrible it is to be a landlord and plunging toilets.

They also apparently can't cope with the fact that anyone might choose to "work", follow a passion or take on a project/side hustle after hitting their number (I presume because it makes then question why they just spent so much time trying to reach that number when they could have left earlier and still found a way to make money afterwords).  And all that work and rigidity, to retire only a couple years earlier than the national average?  Yikes!

- Most of the BP crowd however (in my humble opinion and experience) seem to be so driven by the deal or success or "more" that they can't possibly imagine any benefit to freedom or free time.  

Given the replies here, most also can't imagine doing anything else with their time, have no other passions or hobbies to follow, see no value in actually sitting and being with themselves and their family for more than whatever hours are left at the end of a successful workday and a couple vacations a year. 
The very mention/idea of freedom in this thread alone has brought back negative responses of "hippies", "sipping appletinis" and as someone actually stated earlier "freedom is boring".  

Freedom... the ability to choose to say and do whatever you want... is boring.  Mind Blown.
Surely this impressive crowd of entrepreneurs and creative thinkers can't be that unidimensional... but the responses certainly seem to hint at it. 

Most here also seem so preoccupied with the "more" or income side of the equation that they forget the simple fact the "less" spending improves your cashflow situation just as rapidly (and no, that doesn't have to mean living in strife, pinching pennies or moving to a commune at the end of a dirt road... in fact VERY far from it).

Both these ideas can very much happen in unison and at least for us, the result has been very beneficial. 
We've now spent almost 10years living free in the prime of our lives checking off what most would call bucket list items and living each day like we're on vacation staring at the ocean and following our passions - but while ALSO growing a portfolio, starting a few passion projects that happen to make good money on the side, helping others achieve their goals/follow their passions, and doing/learning/experiencing things we could have only hoped to achieve decades from now. 

I struggle to see why that would seem like a bad idea to anyone.  Why wouldn't we borrow from all mindsets to have the best of both worlds?

I agree 100% - and think the true beauty lies very much in between!

Well thanks I guess!! ;)

Won't claim to be the expert, but in my understanding Financial Independence Retire Early

Sad but very true. 
But... that "expiration date" isn't only waiting for those in the FIRE crowd, it's there for us in REI as well.

We all fall into the trap of working hard now to make life better later, yet we also don't really know if we'll be here "later" to enjoy the fruits of that labor... which exactly why I bring up the point about goal-setting and an exit strategy to begin with. ;) 

Well said, and I agree with you 100%! 

I just also happen to believe (from experience) that life without that profession can be even more free, more rewarding, more fun and even more challenging... so the thing that all those in the FIRE crowd are striving for is actually a pretty good idea (even if we might not choose the same path to get there). But for the record, just as there are any number of different paths to success in REI, there are in FIRE as well (some including REI). Just because someone has decided to retire early doesn't necessarily mean they've chosen to give up having fun along the way!

My personal belief (one I'm working diligently to prove) is that much thanks to REI, the best of both words is actually very much possible and that with hard work and good planning one can actually "have their cake and eat it too". ;)

We also don't have kids, and no question it makes the freedom line a bit easier/more achievable (and certainly adds flexibility to weathering any storms easier as well)... but we also know/meet plenty of people who have found their way to financial freedom and early retirement with the family as well!

I can say, having recently (finally) sold something rather than always buying... that now that we've had to look the capital gains tax straight in the eye - we are highly unlikely to ever sell/liquidate.  As others have stated, why would we?? 
The team is already in place, the system is working well without any interaction from us, so it's hard to imagine why we wouldn't simply keep doing what we're doing and allow the income to grow.

Our number is probably pretty similar to yours in terms of long term passive income goals, we just decided to run away now and enjoy the freedom while we wait on that number to come.  Right now our portfolio nets about 3k/mo after expenses but as our tenants continue to pay off the loans for us it will obviously grow along the way!

Good luck (to all of us) balancing the addiction with the freedom!! ;)

Hi Henry
Thanks for taking an interest (I think) - but I'm not sure we need the unsolicited advice... and I'm certainly not sure what makes you think our "approach doesn't work" or that you know anything about where we are in the process.  Seems presumptuous for someone who also just stated that they know nothing about our situation.

I do keep hoping to go back and reply to your first post about "our numbers" (even though I'm not sure what exactly they have to do with this topic) but we've just finished several moves/changes/refis/exchanges in our portfolio and I haven't even updated all those numbers in our own spreadsheet yet.

In terms of your #1 and now #2 above, no worries... we always pay all our taxes and our medical coverage, so all's good there!
Yes, we also have plans in place for travel medical and "evacuation" coverage (though in our experience the medical coverage is both better and cheaper outside the US, so it's getting harder and harder for us to imagine using it, much less continuing to pay for it in the future). 
The last few needs/emergencies we encountered, we actually decided to pay in cash out of pocket versus even approaching the insurance company because the care was so affordable and because our rates back home I'm sure would only increase. 
I'm afraid the simply truth here is that the US is no longer leading the way in many areas where we all still seem to think that it is. =/

And just so you don't get too stressed out about us -
We have turned down countless handouts, sponsorships, donations, patrons, and every TV offer and book deal pitched to us for a decade now... so you certainly don't have to worry about any eventual GoFundMe campaign; and when we choose to eat spaghetti dinners I assure you they are delicious!!

You are most definitely generalizing!! But based on my experiences in those communities I also happen to agree with you (in general, but I have also met many highly successful VIP types out here who very clearly could "handle" starting something new but simple had/have no desire to).

I really relate well to the goal-setting and planning of most in the FIRE community, but then my mind is blown when I start asking most people what their age goal is/was for early retirement!  For most it's late 50s to early 60s. Can that even be called early with a straight face, especially among a group who is actively looking to leave because they don't like their job (generally speaking)???
Seriously, that crowd needs real estate more than anyone... but for some reason they read the wrong book first and now can't admit that there might be a better/faster way to realize the exact same goal. It's like "leverage" and "passive income" are foreign or dirty words!

I now live mostly among people who have retired on stocks alone (some early, some not)
I get stressed out just watching them check the market each day... The idea of having to constantly do the math or live in fear that they might "live too long" seems completely counterintuitive to me.

I certainly don't bring up FIRE because I promote all of the ideas... but I do think there are a few components of the mentality that could also do some good to those of us more inclined to REI (goalsetting and exit strategies among them).

Thanks again for the dialogue!

I very much agree with you on the difference in mindset (and on just about everything above... especially on the fact most of the crowd here seems to be not only doing it right, but also for the right reasons).  

I guess as it turns out, I just also happen to be an "entrepreneur mind" that while hating the "job mindset" also likes the idea of there also being an "end/exit".  Granted, I'm pretty high on the ADHD scale... but I find change exciting, and moving onto something new means more opportunities to learn something different, to tackle new challenges.

To me that doesn't have to mean boredom, checking golf scores at the country club or sipping appletinis on a beach, it's just that I enjoy far too many passions to spend 8hours a day doing any of them for very long (even if that thing is REI).

At some point if the portfolio is a full time job then I'm bored with it and likely growing frustrated that it keeps me from other things, other pursuits and adventures.  If I have be available (physically present)... that means I'm a bit trapped and not truly free to do what I want or be where I want.  That's not my personal goal of freedom.

In fact, I would argue that doing REI full time for long enough can settle many people into roughly the same as the "job mentality" you describe above.
The very definition of Entrepreneurship is based on starting something new.  At some point with enough properties or deals;  REI just like anything else is no longer new. It's just a means to a different end (albeit, probably a better one) and I guess that's what surprises me and make it feel like somewhere along the way the entrepreneur mind actually gives way toward simply being about making more money (to be clear, Im also not saying its a bad thing... just that Im intrigued by it).

The true beauty of REI in my opinion is that exiting doesn't mean I cant keep the portfolio, or even still make some additions or exchanges as the timing or market is right, but it also means I escaped what (at least for me) starts to feel a lot like work or a job simply to do, start, learn things that seem more exciting for right now.