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All Forum Posts by: Dustin Beam

Dustin Beam has started 51 posts and replied 607 times.

Originally posted by @Michael Swan:

That sounds good @Dustin Beam.  I reached a point when I had 10 single family here in San Diego and just couldn't see adding more.  I didn't want another job.  I had 10 mortgages, 10 roofs, 10 insurances etc.. and I said ther must be a way to expand and not have to manage all those properties. I imagined 100 roofs, 100 mortgages, etc...  I needed to use economies of scale.  The tenants would have my cell number and I was worried I would get that late night call about fire or flood etc...  

What are your goals?  Where do you want to be 5 or 10 years out.  I am interested.

Swanny

Yea I don't like the calls either,but I just deal with it like I said to help get my next deal faster.

My goals are similar to yours just smaller. I'd like to get to 300 ish units. At that point I might just call it good enough. Who knows though. I figure at 125 per unit per month would give me enough money to love a great life. More than enough to live a great life and leave something for my loved ones.

My 5-10 year goal is to have somewhere around 50-70 units. Admittedly it will not be easy without selling some property along the way.

Originally posted by @Michael Swan:

Hi @Dustin Beam

My lender values my apartment complexes that way I spoke of.  I just wanted to increase my cash flow and become financially free and in a timely fashion.  I was 46 when I purchased my first single family rental property in San Diego and wanted to be financially free by 60 and am there at 52 years old this Aug 7th.

Are you sure there are no apartment complexes within 45 minutes from your house if you really want to be close that you can 1031 exchange those quads and buy?

I had to go to NE Ohio because I couldn't find apartment complexes in San Diego that I could get the cash flow I am getting now.

Did you make connections with Commercial brokers there in KC or within a 45 minute drive from that area?

Personally, I don't want keys to my complexes and I don't want any contact with my tenants or for them to know me at all.  I don't want another job.  Financial freedom and the lifestyle it affords is what I want.

Swanny

 Am I sure there are no properties near me that would be a good deal? Hell no haha, I just don't know where they are. :) I don't have great connections right now, so finding properties is basically on me and a challenge.

I can understand you needing to go out of state where you're at, but I should be able to find something local. Out of state is fine, but I won't lie,trusting people I meet a time or two to handle everything does give me a little heartburn lol. 

Unquestionably some day I want someone handling the day to day stuff, but for now I can handle twelve units and try to maximize my profits to buy more property.

Originally posted by @David Faulkner:
Originally posted by @Dustin Beam:
Originally posted by @Michael Swan:

hi again @Dustin Beam,

Those are single family and at the mercy of comps. Anything that is 4 units or less is considered single family. 5 units or more in one complex are true Multifamily and are valued primarily on NOI. That is a huge difference.

Swanny

I'm not sure I follow. Sure, I know that these properties could be purchased under single family loaning terms, but they can also be financed commercially. And their appraised value can be determined more than one way. In my case they were appraised using some mixture odd comps and income based. Your have to ask the appraiser how he did that.

The general buying public is apparently saying they are worth approximately 100x the monthly rent. I see that in my market regardless if it's a duplex or a 16 unit building (and higher).

But for whatever it's worth,my buildings are side by side and identical. The only thing that separates them from a true complex is property lines and a common parking lot.

All the same,I'm not arguing your point. Great things can happen with trading up, but until I come across a great deal, it's simply a bad move. If anyone in KC has a $1M property with rents being 1.5% of the purchase price and not a war zone, let me know haha :)

I'm not sure I follow either, nor am I sure that Master Swanny follows ... maybe you should ask the bank what it is worth.

Since Master Swanny has apparently left the building (guess that answers the question on if he should stay or go now), I will try to explain as best I can, with an open invitation to Master Swanny or anybody else if they'd like to discuss and correct me.

Anything 4 units or less is residential property (not single family, but residential property) ... as such, the value comes from the sales price of sold comps (same for same property type comparison, so duplex of similar size and unit mix in your case). It does not matter how you finance them, whether it is under a commercial loan or not, it is residential property and is valuated as such. This is the way a bank or any competent appraiser would value it, no other way by those groups ... you as an investor might value it based on income, and an insurance company may value it based on replacement value, but when it comes to buy, sell, or refinance transactions, the market value is determined by sold comps.

I won't get into the details of commercial property valuation, because it apparently offends Master Swanny's delicate sensibilities, but will only say that it depends upon the NOI the property produces and the market CAP rate, which is determined by sold comparable commercial properties in the same market around the same time, and yes, market CAP rates do expand and compress based on market forces outside of the investor's control, so multifamily investors are not somehow immune to market forces or comps. I extend an open invitation to anyone who would like to disagree with anything I say ... I might not agree, but I won't label them debbie downer or a troll simply for disagreeing or speaking a negative word or try to infer that they are inferior investors or human beings because they have not written a best selling book or done a BP podcast. Happy investing.

 I won't pretend to be the authority on lending,but it's my understanding that once you're in a commercial lender's office, they can evaluate the value of the property however they want since they hold the loan and don't answer to anyone but themselves.

I'm not saying I'm definitely that I'm right in that, nor am I saying that typically it's as you say. I just know that my property was evaluated both ways, under a commercial loan, all together.

Not saying you, but I often see people here say 4 or less units has traditional financing and 5 or more is commercial lending, but that's not always the case.

Originally posted by @Michael Swan:

hi again @Dustin Beam,

Those are single family and at the mercy of comps. Anything that is 4 units or less is considered single family. 5 units or more in one complex are true Multifamily and are valued primarily on NOI. That is a huge difference.

Swanny

I'm not sure I follow. Sure, I know that these properties could be purchased under single family loaning terms, but they can also be financed commercially. And their appraised value can be determined more than one way. In my case they were appraised using some mixture odd comps and income based. Your have to ask the appraiser how he did that.

The general buying public is apparently saying they are worth approximately 100x the monthly rent. I see that in my market regardless if it's a duplex or a 16 unit building (and higher).

But for whatever it's worth,my buildings are side by side and identical. The only thing that separates them from a true complex is property lines and a common parking lot.

All the same,I'm not arguing your point. Great things can happen with trading up, but until I come across a great deal, it's simply a bad move. If anyone in KC has a $1M property with rents being 1.5% of the purchase price and not a war zone, let me know haha :)

Originally posted by @Michael Swan:

It is a difficult paradigm shift to comprehend guys. My Condos in San Diego are at the mercy of comps and had HOA fees and were approaching all time or surpassing all time highs. There were no chance of replacing and developing the land etc... I traded Condos in for apartment complexes.

@Dustin Beam you must have some opportunities to trade that equity in in those single family for the true Multifamily apartment complexes 5 units or more to help you become financially free like I am.  Right?

Swanny

 They are already mulit-family. I bought three 4plexes that rented for $650 apiece. Came out to $43,750 per unit with was just a shade under 1.5% rent to purchase price.

Properties here generally list and apparently sell for around 100 times the monthly rent (or 1%). My current rents are right about $8k per month. I figure they could sell for $750k. All in all netting me approx. $300k after realtor fees and everything are accounted for. My bank does loans for 20% down, or 5x my down payment, as long as there are reserves in place and rents make sense.

Seems obvious to take 300k, hold back 50k for reserves and buy $1M dollar property right? Well yea, if I can get one at least in the 1.3% + range (but preferrably 1.5%) so that I'm still making money. And also not in a war zone. I'm certain those deals are around in my area, but none that I've found.

Bottom line, I can definitely get more units, but it might be at a minimal amount more in cash flow unless I find a good deal. The "good deal" part is the catch.

My problem is finding the next deal. I bought my units for a $525k. I believe I could sell them and get a price that would allow me to take appreciation, my first down payment, and gained equity to buy something in the ball park of $1M. 

Of course that sounds enticing but I the rent to purchase price when I bought was around 1.5%. I know they probably exist, but I don't come across deals much better than 1% in my area. If I could find a $1M property w/ similar profits per door, I would definitely thing very hard about a 1031 exchange.

Post: Heat Pumps...PRO & CONS??

Dustin BeamPosted
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 609
  • Votes 321
Originally posted by @Max T.:

How does the whole house electric heat pump system compare to a natural gas system in a northern city like Philadelphia?

"Efficient" can often be misleading to the general public. For instance, electric resistance heat is almost 100% efficient. But it is generally more expensive than gas simply because gas is cheaper even though it does have more losses. Check your local gas prices obviously. 

Heat pumps will generally put out MORE heat than it consumes, unlike electric resistance that puts out an equal amount to what it consumes (some fan losses, but mostly). How much it puts out depends on teh unit and what temperature it is outside. The answer isn't simple. In general, gas will be cheaper overall between the cost of the unit and cost to heat. But again, there are variables that you can't answer simply. 

Post: Heat Pumps...PRO & CONS??

Dustin BeamPosted
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 609
  • Votes 321
Originally posted by @Jason D.:
My heat pump will not produce warm air if it is below 40 degrees out side. I use my backup furnace almost all winter. It is a little older (8 years) so they may have gotten better but I would not bother with another one.

 This is partially true. I'm a Mech Engineer (do HVAC/Plumbing design). There are some limitations to heat pumps, and the colder it gets, the less effective they become. They pull heat from the outside and put it in your house. When the AC is running in the summer, it pulls heat from your house and puts it outside (your AC also becomes less effective as it gets hotter). 

It can still pull heat from the outside below 40 dF, however you start to risk freezing on your outside unit, which would make it ineffective. There are solutions to that though, you can run the unit in "reverse" (normal coolign mode) and it will thaw the unit out. You can also put electric heat as backup in the furnace, so if the outside unit freezes, you used electric heat.

In any case, just speak to a local HVAC guy and ask them about the unit freezing and what kind of options they have. 

Post: To LLC or not to LLC, that is the question.

Dustin BeamPosted
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 609
  • Votes 321

I don't whole sale, but I formed an LLC and have zero regrets although it's never been tested. In no way do I want to risk losing my home, vehicle, savings, retirement account, etc.

I know it varies by state, but my attorney said they are pretty much rock solid as long as you treat it correctly. The big one, according to him, is to keep your funds separate. IE - don't go buying groceries or whatever w/ your company money. 

Post: Is it crazy to hire a PM for a property you live in?

Dustin BeamPosted
  • Kansas City, MO
  • Posts 609
  • Votes 321
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Justin H. Nothing crazy about it in that situation. If you can hide the fact that you own the property (LLC, trust etc), even better.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think he can hide his name with an FHA loan.