Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 16%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$39 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
×
Try Pro Features for Free
Start your 7 day free trial. Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties.
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Jim Johnson

Jim Johnson has started 18 posts and replied 320 times.

Post: Why are park-owned mobile homes generally not desirable?

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

i own- several mobile home parks. That said- park owned rentals change the dynamics of how you operate your community. It is sort of like owning a big, flat apartment building. There are a few differences. An apartment building is made of material that is superior to mobile homes. You have lots of tenants, surrounded by brick or frame construction, and one big roof. Probably one central heating system and water supply system. Mobile homes are not built as well, each has its own roofing, plumbing, heating etc systems. When you own the 'dirt' your big issues involve infrastructure. A sewer line, gas line, water line, road etc... Issues like these are few and far between, so a park can go months without a problem. When you have park owned homes, there are issues all the time form within the homes, as well as the other, infrastructural issues. So your turning units, like you might with apartments, fixing bad roofs, water heaters, heaters, air conditioners, leaking faucets, toilets, bad flooring, broken windows etc... So the management is much more active, and your expense ratios change. Without park owned homes you might run 30 - 45% of your gross on experiences. In general- we notice over 50% of rental income from a mobile home (not including the space rent) goes to maintaining the home over time. More like 60%. Also- the park management ratios- on just space rent go up because of the skill sets involved in managing the rentals. SO your ratios might shift 5-10% to the dark side. 

Post: Typical lot size

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

So- I do not buy double-wides. The pas rent is the same for singles and doubles, and fewer doubles fit in the spaces. So I do not look into that market at all. 

As for replacing homes- we buy pre owned mobiles, then fix them up and sell them. In a blue moon, I might pull in a Legacy home. We sell affordable bedrooms and bathrooms. On a lease / option someone has space rent payments of 250, home rent payments of 250 - 300, and then at the end of 3-5 years they pay between 3 and 6 thousand for the home, which I will finance at the end of the lease. To be clear- I finance on a personal promissory note- the title transfers at the end of the lease term if they choose to buy.

Post: Typical lot size

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

we like sites that fit homes that are at least 14 x 70. That is probably a pad that is 40 x 100. In some places, like Texas where they can grow the mobile homes big- we want 16 x 80 homes. Now your about 45 x 110. Many older parks will only fit smaller homes- which might all be 2 bed 1 bath homes- so watch that.

Here is a Jim's Tip- download Google Earth to your computer. Then open the map to the mobile home park. In the tools you will find a ruler. Choose feet, and click in one spot- now move your mouse and click again. It will show you how far, in feet, between the two clicks. So- you can now use that too to see how big houses are, or lots. You can leave the line on the screen as a marker, and lay out homes on the map. *advanced tip* at the bottom left of the screen- as you zoom in- is the date the image was taken. Well, try scrolling through the dates to see if the best image might be an older one. I know we use ones were there are no leaves on trees for instance. This is a GREAT way to preview a property prior to visiting. This along with 'street view' on can really help. *super advanced tip*- you can use your mouse to 'fly' across the image (map). So, maybe your like me and visiting a city, and you want to see the mobile home parks you do not know are in the area. I just spend some time with google earth and I mark them on my map. Then- if your really tricky you can use the GPS in your tablet or bluetooth your garmin into your computer- and you have a live map showing you where to drive too... or mark the maps and mail the owners, or print the maps and drive to the parks... anyway- that concludes Jim's Google earth Tips for the day... happy hunting!!

Post: Starting an RV Park: How much is an on site sewage treatment plant?

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

My info concerns mobile home parks. I am not in the RV business- as that is a very different type of business to own. 

Post: Starting an RV Park: How much is an on site sewage treatment plant?

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

Hi Mike,

Walter- thanks for the inclusion. 

So sewer treatment plants. Tricky subject. There are 4 aspects to water / sewer. Where does the water come from? City, well, stream, spring, truck etc... Who makes it clean- so do you need a water treatment plant, and if you do, what are you adding or removing. You should pre test the water, and then engage the state to see what they require. This can be very expensive depending on the state, and (I am not making any political statement or judgments here)- and the president is changing some of the epa regulations through executive order that mandate some changes on ALL public water supply and treatment systems regardless of the size of the community they service. These same regulations do not apply to businesses. So while I might serve a few hundred people with water daily, and the strip mall / gas station etc up the road might serve water to the general public, our water is not treated the same- so be careful when you read the regs your reading the right ones. We have 10s of thousands of dollars of treatment equipment, while the place across the street that pumps 5 times the water, has zero. The regulations are not evenly placed. Now the water runs through your system and you need to treat it, and then- dispose of the treated water and dispose of the heavy solid waste that is left. So I use a 'packing plant'. Sewage enters a tank, it is run through a pump and grind system and moved to an aeration tank. This is a huge tank- 15' wide x 50' long by 12' deep that has lots of air bubbles in it. It looks like a roaring, bubbling hot tub. This tank had chambers that separate the water that no longer has solids in it, from the water that still is holding solids. This tank is loaded with 'bugs'. Little microscopic bugs that eat / treat the raw sewage. Well- this tank has 4 total chambers- the last is a narrow well that takes the 'clean' water through a pipe where chlorine is added. Later in the pipe the chlorine is removed and then the water goes to a finishing pond. The pond, about 50' round and 10' deep allows any solids left over to settle, and lets the sun treat the water prior to the water being pumped about a mile to a stream. There is one more tank set off to the side, where 'heavy' solids are skimmed from the aeration tank and allowed to settle. We pump air into this tank, then stop, allowing the water to rise and separate. The water is pumped back into the aeration tank, while the solids- well they are really solid. Like very, very heavy mud. These solids must be pumped out of the tank and disposed of. 

So- a few costs involved. Engineering and environmental impact study's and reports. Then the hard costs of the equipment. We service 76 home sites- and if I needed to just replace my system today, without the cost of the initial permits, engineering and impact study's, it would set me back $300,000. Maybe up too $400,000 if I had to increase sizes due to new regs. From scratch- my system would cost 450,000 to $550,000. 

This is just the sewer plant- not my water treatment system. If the stream was closer- that could knock off 50 - 75K. 

Every state is different in what they allow, but what is tricky is the EPA. You do NOT want to make mistakes. My plant has a certified operator- required by law. So does the water treatment system. I spend- $40,000 yearly on just salaries to have these guys show up and watch over the systems. The state requires our water operator be onsite like 2 hours daily, while his duties only take him about 15 minutes. The sewer plant needs to be checked daily- though we check it a few times a day. 

Lastly... there are large self contained systems that can be bought to do the treatment. They might be military surplus, or some other use like man camps. I have looked at them as backups in case something went very wrong and I needed a quick fix. Ebay sometimes has some listed. They run between 50,000 and 500,000 depending on what they really do, and how much water they treat. Remember when dealing with the EPA you will be sizing for the heaviest use. So if you service 76 sites like I do- they size me for the 4th of july, when they figure EVERY home has EVERY relative and the community looks like a grateful dead outdoor free concert venue. So the system is oversize and underused- which creates other issues but this is now a runaway post and I best stop... 

That is probably more than you wanted to know about packing plants... but look at all 4 aspects- where water comes from, what needs to be done prior to drinking it, how to treat it, there where does the finished product go. 

one more thing- what do the water rights cost- and can you even purchase them. If your park was in Colorado- the water rights would probably cost more than the system. 

Post: Mailing list

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

The very best list is the one Dave Reynolds has from the mobile home park store. I think, they only give it away with their material. It covers all 50 states and is pretty darn good. 

Now- depending on the state, you can request a list for the state that oversees mobile home parks, and they will send it to you. In other cases they will list every mobile home park on a state website, and you can copy and paste the data into a spreadsheet. 

Post: Is This My Bill to Pay?

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

My experience is not the same as Joes-

So- there are a lot of things going on here. I own a few parks in Texas so maybe I can shed some light onto the situation.

1) You could be liable for the back amounts owed, depending on how all of the legal papers were filed.

2) No. But in Texas the mover MUST be licensed, and must pull the proper permits in order to move the home. The home can only be moved on certain days and times in Texas.

3) The park can stop it with a judgement and a RIT. So yes they can. But again, all the paper work needs to have been done with that in mind.

4) I am not sure where you are located, but you call a mover and have the home pulled out. Many parks, mine included pay for homes to move into our parks. So I pay the move fees if a home is pulled in. The home must meet the city code, but that is pretty easy most of the time. So call a move and at least get it out of the park. Once that is done, the owner of the park can not go after you UNLESS you were named in the suit and unless he has a judgement against you.

If you are anywhere close to the Valley, or to the Dallas / Ft Wroth area- drop me a line and we can discuss pulling it into one of my parks. I am very, very friendly to people that own and sell homes in my parks.

As a side note- I have owned and financed well over 100 homes in other peoples parks, and I still hold financing on many of those homes.

Post: How much are you paying for MHs these days?

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

Leslie, We buy from both, though individuals give much better pricing. We find homes in two ways, craigslist and driving through parks and just writing down numbers on for sale signs. I also know of people that have sent- "We Buy Mobile Homes" postcards to all the homes in a park, and they have done very- very- very well with that. I choose not to do that- as I do not want to incite a war between mobile home park owners. I get homes to pull to my parks. To that end- we pay to have homes moved into our parks by owners or lonnie type dealers.

Post: How much are you paying for MHs these days?

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

This questions is hard to answer for me, because we buy in 5 different markets.

Nebraska- $6,000

Colorado- $8,500

Texas (Dallas)- $7,000

Texas (Valley)- $9,000

Indiana- $4,000

Figure these are all older single wide homes, 3 bedroom and 1 bath. 14 x 66 box mid 80s through late 90s. These prices do not include transport and set up.

Post: How hard is it to own / manager a park in another state?

Jim Johnson
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Denver, CO
  • Posts 355
  • Votes 324

So I have 5 mobile home parks- all out of my area. Closest is a 2.5 hour drive, and the farthest is 2 time zones away. With good systems, it is very- very easy to manage them. I think you need at least 35 spaces, and an onsite manager.

I would NEVER own a park that was close enough for me to just drive too without planning. That is a job, not an investment...