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All Forum Posts by: Joel Oh

Joel Oh has started 15 posts and replied 184 times.

Post: salt water hot tub

Joel OhPosted
  • Posts 185
  • Votes 110
Quote from @John Underwood:

Some places require you to change the water between guests.

I've never heard of a saltwater hotbtub.

Sounds more expensive to purchase.


 It seems like it has been on the market for a long time. It has a higher initial cost (2~3k) but less maintenance over time with a longer warranty. We all know that maintenance is where it kills our back.

Yeap, exactly same as Zillow's Zestimate increased the price of houses. STR is a bit weird because the Covid travel demand pushed the price hardcore for the last few years. The market will eventually correct the price.

This is the time I use muscle over legal. You are in a deep **** if they declare tenancy and eviction can be extremely painful. (A lot of states, they can easily pull emergency assistance, and the court case get automatically dismissed) If they are pro at this, you have no way to win without a super experienced PM and legal team. If somehow you can prove that they lived there less than 30 days, call the cop and put a trespassing. A lot of time, this will scare the people out of the property rather calling the cop agrees to issue a trespass or not.

Post: salt water hot tub

Joel OhPosted
  • Posts 185
  • Votes 110

They have a deal on salt water hot tub. 

According to the sales person, I don't need to handle PH level, adding chlorine or even changing water due to sodium level they maintain. (Just need to clean filter every month? and maybe change the water once or twice per year).

I always consider 40% of what sales person say, matches the actual performance. Do you guys see the benefit outperform the 2~3k price difference? 

(More buoyancy was very tempting for myself though)

Man the fishing discount is wild. My best one on 2024 was that the guest found a ghost in the basement. I told them we sent out a ghost detecting team and found 0 ghost. 

Quote from @Dziko Thunde:

@Alexandra Helms Just seem odd to me that US side isn't much of tourist area in winter than the other side. Or I'm missing something - followed threads about the conversation from different folk, though.

I wanted to get to visit Niagara Falls - Canada side for the week of Christmas to New Year and been looking at the hotels. Didn't work out because I still have a project hanging in Upper Chichester (Philadelphia, PA). So, I just thought summer would be great. Looked up hotels and I see $350-600 per room per night for 2 adults and 3 kids. Then I thought about AirBnB on the US side and started analyzing the whole area in terms of real estate and STR and following threads.

- Someone talked about crime and hard tenants (who don't pay - usually inherited ones)

- not many economic opportunities to attract pool of people and boost area etc

I'm looking at houses on both sides (Canada and USA) US, they are cheaper like 731 Pine Ave, Niagara FAlls NY 14301 going for $270,000 (5/2, 2700sq ft) but on Can side, it's like houses are in the US$400K - smaller sq ft. Canada side, you have for example 5333 College Cres. Niagara ON for C$370K or US$256K,  only 932sq ft.

Why such differences?

Are STRs viable in Niagara - US side? 

1441 Byrd Ave, Niagara Falls NY 14303 (3/2 1832 sq ft) is an AirBnB and is for sale both on Zillow and Rabbu. Pics show like it's just an ordinary house - well taken care of like 731 Pine Ave. Rabbu ways annual revenue for Byrd is $43,125, which is 13.3 annual gross yield. 

In my take, I'd buy Pine (which is 5/2 2700sq ft) than Byrd (3/2 1832sq ft)

- But the price differences may be due to desirability of neighbourhoods (someone takes about crime in Niagara NY)

Also, 353 Buffalo Ave, Niagara Falls NY 14303 (5/4,5 3255sq ft) is selling as an AirBnB for $749,900 on Rabbu> Ann rev @ $63,755 and gross yield at 8.5%. This is a beautiful house - rehabbed/looking new and fresh - walking distance to the water etc, yet low gross yield  compared to Byrd (???)

Gross yield for most AIrBnBs in Niagara is 10% and under compared to neighboring areas (though only 1441 Byrd Ave has a 15% gross anual yield. 

So, how good is Niagara Falls, NY for STR?

So, here are my questions, if you have time to answer (not in a hurry)


 Have you seen the price difference between a ghetto and a downtown in any major city? That is the difference. You don't need to visit the area to know this. Just Google Maps and see it from yourself. Often 3 blocks can make 2~3 times difference in the price. 

This is 10 minutes, max 30 minutes DYI. Get the water line, change your valve to water line valve, drill a few holes and connect it to fridge. Man up and make some money!

Post: One platform strategy

Joel OhPosted
  • Posts 185
  • Votes 110
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Joel Oh:
Quote from @Trent Reeve:
Quote from @Joel Oh:
Quote from @Dan H.:

I am not going to express an opinion on whether being on a single platform can improve your ranking because i really d not know and admit you may be right.  

Even if you are right about the rankings, i would not advocate using a single OTA. Here are some reasons: if the OTA gets too much market share that is bad for hosts and guests. It would allow Airbnb to screw both hosts and guests (assuming airbnb is the ota chosen). if the OTA has issue with you and bans you (there are some crazy horror stories that alone would deter me from listing on a single OTA), you are basically starting over. Using a single OTA has too much reliance on that OTA for my liking. Direct bookings results in higher revenue. Being listed on multiple OTA allows users that use alternate OTAs to see your STR and could provide a higher ADR even if you end up lower ranked of the OTAs.

Basically it comes down to having all your eggs in a single basket and is too risky for my liking.

i am one of those STR owners that corrects anyone that refers to my STR or STR business as an AirBnB. I get more bookings from airBnB then from any other OTA yet AirBnB is the OTA I have the least positive feeling towards.

I hope the new STR owners/hosts realize the risk they take if they choose to list on a single OTA.

I think you have a good reason to follow what you believe. It sounds like you are pretty big and you already have your own ecosystem. I think that is absolutely right path for the big owners like you. The issue is new hosts don't have the advantage you are getting from your direct bookings. They will mostly just split their occupancy rates on multiple platforms without getting too much benefits out of it. 

Out of topic but how do you handle guest resolution on your direct bookings? Do you just suck up the cost if guests damage your property or throw a party?
I am moving to STR because of how Aircover works and I doubt I will leave Airbnb unless they change the Aircover and resolution system. Successful collection rate on LTR is not even 15% on top of dealing with insane lawyers and social workers who believe that less fortunate people can hurt wealthier people. I love how Airbnb just pay me based on the evidence without going through 6 months legal battle or 3 years of collection hunting.

I dont know about Dan, but you can use something like Waivo. I use a channel manager (OR) and it has damage protection built in. In fact, i use it on every booking, not just direct, as I have heard too many stories of Airbnb not paying for damages or not paying enough. I just work the amount into my pricing.

 Thanks for sharing! I had over 50 claims with Aircover so far and only failed once or twice and it was definitely my fault for not having enough evidence. It was one of my first claims and I learned how their claim system works and never failed again. Maybe it is more difficult if the damage was more serious like fire or flood but it goes same with any insurance claim. I think most of horror stories came from people who do not understand how insurance system works. They can't just pay people because he or she says this. Record keeping and providing evidence are the key.

Airbnb: toilet is reported as clogged on 4th day of 5 night (6 day) guest stay.  Pm handyman cannot fully clear it, but unit has 2 bathrooms.  Guests stay full stay, guest requests discount for one less toilet.  Handyman after guest vacates replaces toilet, breaks old toilet to find vape in toilet.  No way that toilet worked multiple days with vape in s trap so last guest definitely were responsible for the vape in the toilet.  Airbnb rejected claim stating it could have been in toilet previous to guest that experienced the blockage (no way, nothing but liquid was going past a vape in the s trap).  

our pm ended up paying for the toilet replacement.   He felt spending more time disputing the rejection was not cost effective and i see his point but suspect airbnb recognizes this and uses it to their advantage.  If the claim can be disputed, OTA disputes it and makes it hard to collect and the host may simply give up.

i think pm, airBnB, guest and LL all know who was responsible for the vape in the toilet, but ota did not charge guest or pay for it and gave the guest a discount (a discount for an issue that the guest was responsible for).  Pm paid for it because they would incur additional cost disputing it and may never collect from the OTA.  Note this guest was not intentionally destructive.  I am sure it was an accident, but the guest is responsible for this accident.  Even though the nightly rate is high, the RE has such high value that the margins are fairly tight.  The guest stay with discount and toilet replacement did not cover the cost of the unit for the stay. 

i have the issue on occasion that the guest is expecting a bigger unit and thinks the price is high but they do not realize the value of the unit.  It is likely the number one reason for reviews that are not 5 stars.  My little mission beach units have a value of ~$1m each.   If they are from LCOL locations they cannot fathom that such small units have such high value and expect a lot more than 600’ to 700’ for the price they pay.

host and guests both benefit by having multiple OTA platforms and the resulting competition.

 
best wishes


 I am honestly shocked your handyman had to break the toilet to fix that haha. Toilet is held by 2 bolts and nuts and any skilled person can replace it in 10 minutes unless it has cast iron waste line or an uneven floor. I train my team to not waste their time snaking if they can’t fix it in 10 minutes and just replace it since toilet is under $300 (I use $120 Costco ones) but yeah these things are difficult to know for regular hosts.

Besides that, it is unfortunate but I kinda see why Airbnb made that decision. Did the guest start the claim? Who initiated the claim first is so important. I ask my team to send the Airbnb team a message right away if an issue happens during guest’s stay. Tell Airbnb what was broken and we fixed it and tell them how much it was to fix and note that we will charge this after the guest leaves. Honestly why it broke is not that important to Airbnb. It is just a matter of whether they broke it or not.

It goes the same with all issues such as guest complaining about not being able to check in before check in time, or not able to find the item when we clearly stated where they are and sent them photo proof… I call this stacking the bullets before the battle and I tell my team you guys are sending me without weapon to fight if you don’t do this for me 😂 (I handle all the claims as I do this for my job)

You are in an expensive market! One of my mentors told me once. The higher I move up, my intention doesn’t really matter. The important thing is how my team thinks what my intention is.

I think it goes to the same way. We can’t expect our guests to understand how expensive the house it. It is a matter of if guests can justify their sprnding. If a lot of guests are complaining about the value, I think there is a disconnection between your absolute property value (not the inflated market value) and how much guests think your price should be. 

 I would say test it by telling people in the listing what is the size and the value of the house like a 700sqft 1 million dollar beach house. I think this may help change their perception before complaining. Who knows?

Post: One platform strategy

Joel OhPosted
  • Posts 185
  • Votes 110
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Joel Oh:
Quote from @Dan H.:

I am not going to express an opinion on whether being on a single platform can improve your ranking because i really d not know and admit you may be right.

Even if you are right about the rankings, i would not advocate using a single OTA. Here are some reasons: if the OTA gets too much market share that is bad for hosts and guests. It would allow Airbnb to screw both hosts and guests (assuming airbnb is the ota chosen). if the OTA has issue with you and bans you (there are some crazy horror stories that alone would deter me from listing on a single OTA), you are basically starting over. Using a single OTA has too much reliance on that OTA for my liking. Direct bookings results in higher revenue. Being listed on multiple OTA allows users that use alternate OTAs to see your STR and could provide a higher ADR even if you end up lower ranked of the OTAs.

Basically it comes down to having all your eggs in a single basket and is too risky for my liking.

i am one of those STR owners that corrects anyone that refers to my STR or STR business as an AirBnB. I get more bookings from airBnB then from any other OTA yet AirBnB is the OTA I have the least positive feeling towards.

I hope the new STR owners/hosts realize the risk they take if they choose to list on a single OTA.

I think you have a good reason to follow what you believe. It sounds like you are pretty big and you already have your own ecosystem. I think that is absolutely right path for the big owners like you. The issue is new hosts don't have the advantage you are getting from your direct bookings. They will mostly just split their occupancy rates on multiple platforms without getting too much benefits out of it.

Out of topic but how do you handle guest resolution on your direct bookings? Do you just suck up the cost if guests damage your property or throw a party? I am moving to STR because of how Aircover works and I doubt I will leave Airbnb unless they change the Aircover and resolution system. Successful collection rate on LTR is not even 15% on top of dealing with insane lawyers and social workers who believe that less fortunate people can hurt wealthier people. I love how Airbnb just pay me based on the evidence without going through 6 months legal battle or 3 years of collection hunting.

>Successful collection rate on LTR is not even 15%

What is the source of this stat? Are you only referring to damages in excess of the deposit? What is the market? What is the class of tenant? The screening process plays a big role in the odds of collection. In general tenants with a credit score worth preserving pay all that is owed.

>on top of dealing with insane lawyers and social workers who believe that less fortunate people can hurt wealthier people.   

My market has many people with this sentiment. It results in tenant friendly laws.  For example they just double the amount of time tenant has to respond to an eviction notice to 10 days.  In practice, this could mean 5 extra days that no rent is collected.  

these tenant friendly laws seldom matter because the vacancy is so low the tenants want to stay in their units and realize an eviction will make it challenging to ever find a quality rental in this market.  Our policy is no evictions, ever.  No excuses other than court cancelling of the eviction (we have encountered that once).  

my market is near the nation low in both evictions and delinquent rent even with very tenant friendly laws.  Also a local eviction attorney claims the LL winning rate in evictions is near 100% even with the friendly tenant laws.  There are a lot of LL advantages due to the low vacancy rate.

>I love how Airbnb just pay me based on the evidence without going through 6 months legal battle or 3 years of collection hunting.  

We have had challenges collecting a couple/few times from OTAs.   We failed to collect for a vape in toilet that resulted in the toilet needing to be replaced.   A couple times we were able to collect but it was not as simple as make the claim and collect.  There are many horror stories on collecting for damages from OTAs including a current thread on BP where guest left doors and windows open upon exit that resulted in frozen pipes.   The OTA initially ruled against paying. As stated i have had OTAs initially refuse payment but end up paying so this may end with favorable results for the host, but the host has to go through some additional hurdles.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/530/topics/1224322-airb...

I think OTA competition is good for both hosts and guests. I do not want to give a single OTA a competitive advantage by choosing to have my STR listings on a single OTA. I think OTA competition encourages the OTAs to pay for guest damages.

i continue to advocate for being listed on multiple OTAs.

Best wishes


 The stat comes from my own properties and people I speak to everyday. We don't expect to collect money back when we send them to the collection companies. I haven't recovered any collection I sent since 2023 to give you an idea hahahaha. That is why we just offer cash to key even they owe thousands since we all know it is lost money. Damage after deposit, legal charge, skip out, unpaid utilities lists go forever.... and of course eviction process takes at least 60~90 days here while lawyers are asking $600 to just start with the case.

Unfortunately screening is getting more and more difficult with workforce, big name companies changing their policies to not sharing rental history. That is why I am moving to STR because I am tired of all these regulations popping up everyday.

Sucks that you had to replace the toilet, and they rejected the payment. Hope at least it wasn't cast iron waste line. Plumbing is historically one of the most difficult things to fight since age and the structure matter so much and it is nearly impossible to pinpoint one issue that caused the damage. You bring 5 different plumbers and all 5 plumbers will give you different answers. I usually suck up all the plumbing issues with LTR because I know it will just waste my time and of course plumbing is the most expensive repair every single time. 

Well, yeah you gotta fight for the claim. A lot of times they will not say yes to 100% payment. It is always partial or rejection. I think I called 18 times for one claim once. People just need to have more insurance and legal experience to deal in this issue and you can't rely on your hired property manager. They just simply can't care as much as owner wants. Sucks that our education program teach us nothing about this matter.

I agree that competition is important for the market! Good luck brother!

Post: One platform strategy

Joel OhPosted
  • Posts 185
  • Votes 110
Quote from @Trent Reeve:
Quote from @Joel Oh:
Quote from @Dan H.:

I am not going to express an opinion on whether being on a single platform can improve your ranking because i really d not know and admit you may be right.  

Even if you are right about the rankings, i would not advocate using a single OTA. Here are some reasons: if the OTA gets too much market share that is bad for hosts and guests. It would allow Airbnb to screw both hosts and guests (assuming airbnb is the ota chosen). if the OTA has issue with you and bans you (there are some crazy horror stories that alone would deter me from listing on a single OTA), you are basically starting over. Using a single OTA has too much reliance on that OTA for my liking. Direct bookings results in higher revenue. Being listed on multiple OTA allows users that use alternate OTAs to see your STR and could provide a higher ADR even if you end up lower ranked of the OTAs.

Basically it comes down to having all your eggs in a single basket and is too risky for my liking.

i am one of those STR owners that corrects anyone that refers to my STR or STR business as an AirBnB. I get more bookings from airBnB then from any other OTA yet AirBnB is the OTA I have the least positive feeling towards.

I hope the new STR owners/hosts realize the risk they take if they choose to list on a single OTA.

I think you have a good reason to follow what you believe. It sounds like you are pretty big and you already have your own ecosystem. I think that is absolutely right path for the big owners like you. The issue is new hosts don't have the advantage you are getting from your direct bookings. They will mostly just split their occupancy rates on multiple platforms without getting too much benefits out of it. 

Out of topic but how do you handle guest resolution on your direct bookings? Do you just suck up the cost if guests damage your property or throw a party?
I am moving to STR because of how Aircover works and I doubt I will leave Airbnb unless they change the Aircover and resolution system. Successful collection rate on LTR is not even 15% on top of dealing with insane lawyers and social workers who believe that less fortunate people can hurt wealthier people. I love how Airbnb just pay me based on the evidence without going through 6 months legal battle or 3 years of collection hunting.

I dont know about Dan, but you can use something like Waivo. I use a channel manager (OR) and it has damage protection built in. In fact, i use it on every booking, not just direct, as I have heard too many stories of Airbnb not paying for damages or not paying enough. I just work the amount into my pricing.

 Thanks for sharing! I had over 50 claims with Aircover so far and only failed once or twice and it was definitely my fault for not having enough evidence. It was one of my first claims and I learned how their claim system works and never failed again. Maybe it is more difficult if the damage was more serious like fire or flood but it goes same with any insurance claim. I think most of horror stories came from people who do not understand how insurance system works. They can't just pay people because he or she says this. Record keeping and providing evidence are the key.