All Forum Posts by: Joseph Parker

@Maugno M. I do agree that it is better for him, however, he received the EXACT same cash offer of $375k two weeks prior to agreeing to our seller financing deal. He refused that cash deal saying it was not a high enough purchase price, only to get cold feet with our deal, terminating and going back to accept that offer previously rejected.

Spoke with attorney college friend of mine, just over the phone, nothing formal. Still plan to talk to real estate attorney this week but wanted to get his overall thoughts.

Without seeing every single detail, we did agree that they were able to terminate due to the earnest money technicality - but also says that the agent could have put himself in a bad position with his very poor representation of me as the buyer.

Not ever mentioning earnest money deadline as it approached/passed after giving me the no rush, not important line. As an agent, part of his job is to help the buyer follow the timeline, meet deadlines, etc. rather than let them come and pass unannounced, or deem them as unimportant.

Did not disclose his personal relationship with the seller, which is more of a courtesy.

After I told agent of my two attempts to drop off earnest money, agent messaged and asked my current thoughts regarding whether or not I’m considering signing the mutual release or wanting to move forward with the purchase. I stated that I’ve put in too much time and effort to just walk away.

Not one communication was made after that message until the statement of termination email, leading one to believe that the agent then informed the seller of the opportunity to terminate the agreement based on the fact that I was unable to successfully submit earnest money by that morning. (Which I did drop off shortly before the termination statement was sent)

While I probably have nothing against the seller, he does easily think a large complaint could be filed against the agent.

He thinks it would be worth my time to talk to a RE attorney, who might suggest a couple of options including either asking seller to provide a specific amount of consideration, or agree to sell me the property for a specified, lower lump sum, in order to avoid potential litigation and/or holding up the sale to the other buyer.

The sage continues...

I do want to thank EVERYBODY for their advice, comments and opinions thus far. This has been a learning process for me, and one that I couldn’t learn from any book or real estate course!!

@Greg Hamer the only issue with matching the cash offer ($375k) was that the original seller finance deal we had in place was equivalent to me buying the property for around $325k with traditional bank financing/terms

@Jay Hinrichs I wouldn’t mess with the title, just heard a few people give that option, or extend signing the release, but I’m not sure what good that would do at this point. From what I was told, the cash offer is fine with waiting around until things clear up.

@Greg Hamer you may be right, but at this point I have no desire whatsoever to move forward with a seller finance deal that had terms lasting ten years. He could make my life miserable during that time if he wanted, try to take back the property, sabatoge, who knows.

@Jay Hinrichs that’s why I haven’t met with or spoken to a RE attorney. Want to find the appropriate one before paying his/her high fees even if it’s just for a one hour review to start.

Attempting to research those who know agency law like you discussed, but I may need to contact a state resource who would be able to quickly tell me who knows agency law.

Was also told to look into the “mailbox rule” as far as when the earnest money was submitted/received versus the timing of my notification of the termination. I dropped off envelope prior to being notified of termination, and contract states I must be notified of termination prior to agent receiving earnest money. So some confusion there as well.

@Greg Hamer @Jonathan R McLaughlin the managing broker knows and told me that she’s aware I can tie up the process for a while whether it’s by litigation, clouding the title, etc. so I’m not making any quick decisions.

At the least, maybe use the “threat” of litigation or tying up the other sale process to ask for $ consideration to sign the release. Hopefully the attorney can give me those reasonable options or tell me I need to just sign and move on.

@Dan H. I believe speaking to a RE is my next step. I didn’t say much and was never planning to sign anything at the meeting today, but did want to see where their minds were prior to going to an attorney.

Like you said, it may be cut and dry and I have no legal leg to stand on, but paying for a one hour review of my case might be worth the peace of mind.

@Andy Bondhus this is where I said earlier I may have been mistaken on specific timeline of execution - original purchase agreement signed Tuesday at 5pm, then Option to Purchase contract signed the following day on Wednesday at 4pm along with an addendum and amendment. Not being told otherwise, I had assumed that the contracts signed Wednesday "updated", for lack of better term, the agreement date.

Wish they had all been done at once, but regardless, I wasn't sensing the urgency for the earnest money submission based on my agent telling me not to rush. So I planned to drop it off when I was over that way. Had he told me specifically "Hey, the earnest money is due today at 5pm" or "we need to meet to get the earnest money asap", I fully would've gotten it to him, but wasn't lead on to believe it was going to be a deal-breaker if it was a few hours late.

@Susan K. I fully agree. I actually found out over the weekend by doing some Facebook "investing", which I then asked him and he acknowledged at that time - but again expressing that he represents both of us equally and wants to do what is best for us both.

That tune shifted at the meeting when both the agent and managing broker continually said they need to do what's best for the seller and do what he wants. I guess I wasn't being represented by anybody during the one month process??

Just got back from meeting with agent and managing broker.

Managing broker (owner of agency) did most of the talking. 

Started off by apologizing and saying that if I was her client, she would typically tell me to get an attorney, but she thinks this is a pretty black and white case.

As per contract, the technical time frame to submit earnest deposit was 5pm Thursday, March 29th. The day before was when the agent told me "Yea, I forgot to ask for it when you were here. There's no rush bc it won't be cashed actually since we're closing so quickly. It would barely clear by the time of closing." When I mentioned that to the managing broker, she kind of tensed up with a "look of guilt" as if the agent must've informed her already that he had told me there was no urgency.

Their office being across town (and not sensing urgency after what the agent said), I figured I'd drop it by when I was going to be next door Friday to set up an LLC. As mentioned before, they were closed for the holiday. Tried again Monday, apparently before office hours and closed again. Messaged agent explaining that I tried twice, and was informed of the dropbox around back, which is where I then dropped the envelope at around 11:45am Monday. This after being asked to sign mutual release to term contract over the weekend so seller can pursue other offer that he originally wanted.

Termination document and statement emailed to me at 12:16pm Monday, with errors in the statement (uses March 2nd as term date), and electronic signature timestamped at 3:56pm (future time). So if they want to get cute with technicalities, there are plenty of mistakes on that document alone.

Secondly, Indiana contracts state that Seller can only terminate agreement PRIOR to escrow agent's receipt of the earnest money (no matter how long before or after specified time frame that it's received). So, at what time was it technically received? When I dropped it off? When I made two prior efforts, both acknowledged by agent, not knowing or being told office was closed? I dropped it off prior to receiving a termination statement email.

Managing broker acknowledges that I can drag this out for the seller by A) getting attorney and filing lawsuit, B) not signing anything until I'm comfortable, C) clouding the title by recording it with the county and not allowing the other sale to proceed

Finished by saying to think about what I want to do and let them know. Says they're willing to help with whatever information/documentation I need, should I want it. I know the managing broker very well and I do think she is sincere in saying that - but could also tell at the same time that she was shifting as much blame as possible away from the agent and towards the seller. Calling him an "******* seller" who would have found any loophole possible to get out of the deal and take the other cash offer. I did not express all of my issues and concerns with how the agent acted throughout the process and how poorly he represented me in the last few days, but I do plan to send the managing broker an email explaining that. My personality type is non-confrontational and not one to throw people under the bus in front of their face.

Now I decide my next step...

I'm not the lawsuit type of guy, and at this point, would want nothing to do with this property under seller-financing terms (he would make my life miserable).

Considering asking seller for consideration, or payment, of some sort to avoid going the legal route while also avoiding me dragging this out by clouding title, etc.

Definitely not making any quick decisions. Any input or advice would be GREATLY appreciated!!

@Jay Hinrichs small world - I was just talking to Chris about potentially managing this property last week!

Contract states EM submit within 2 days of contract execution.

When I told agent I will get it to him in next couple days, is when he responded with the no rush, it won't be cashed since we're closing so quickly, blah blah blah...then telling me my next important task was to type up lease renewals, which I did. All while thinking I'd just bring him the EM when I'm by their office (Friday, then again Monday morning - closed both times).

You're right, at the very least, even if I don't have right to specific performance by acting in good faith and doing my due diligence in executing the contract, the agent should hold some accountability by not maintaining or deeming the importance of the EM being submitted.

Also, contract states "If Buyer fails for any reason to timely submit EM, Seller may terminate this agreement upon notice to Buyer prior to Escrow Agent's receipt of the EM"

For what it's worth - EM was stuck in dropbox around 11:30am Monday, Termination doc sent to me at 12:16pm Monday - mailbox rule?