All Forum Posts by: Marc Winter

@Marisa Davis,

This is why God created property managers.

The answer to your question will depend on what state the property is in.  

In PA, I've done the following:  

• Send the Mutual Early Lease Termination Form to the jail with a self-addressed, stamped envelope, addressed to the tenant. You may include a cover note explaining that the tenant’s family has cleared the unit and returned the keys, and you ask him to confirm mutual termination by signing and mailing it back.
• Instruct the jail in your cover letter or on the envelope that this is non-legal, non-privileged mail that simply requires the inmate’s signature, not legal service of process.
• Keep detailed documentation of all communications with the jail, the attempts to deliver the form, the return of the keys, communication with the tenant's family, and photographs of the emptied unit.

• If the jail returns your letter or refuses delivery, keep all returned mail as evidence of your attempt.
• Document all steps. The fact that the property was vacated and keys returned is strong evidence of abandonment in Pennsylvania.
• File a written notice with your records showing the circumstances: tenant arrested, keys returned, property vacated, family removed property, and you received no further communication from the tenant.

     Best practice:  check with your legal counsel.

Since the building is 100+ years old, there are probably items that were grandfathered in, so building an addition might trigger forced compliance with the current code.  That could blow up your projected budget.  Check with your local zoning/permit office.

I'd stick with the existing footprint and do a complete renovation of the apartment, with the interior upgrades you mentioned.

Make sure the exterior of that basement unit is weather-tight, especially after the mold you had. 

It sounds like a nice project--good luck!

@Marc Cha

#4: Always best to have something in writing between landlord and tenant.  I'd suggest move-out help as a 'reward' for being a great long-term tenant. Cash for keys implies you are trying to buy them out to avoid an eviction.

#6: I'd let them know only if things do escalate.  Unless you want them to be involved with the property damage (fence).

Timeline: Did you find out who the attorney is representing?  In any event, I'd respond with a short note once you have something in writing with the tenant.  Don't send the attorney your tenant agreement; just let them know it's being addressed, as explained in my post. 

NOTE:  I am not an attorney and am not providing legal advice.  I am a real estate broker and investor speaking from my own experience.

@Jeremy Horton, 

Unless you are investing in a REIT, owning real estate is a business. If you think your downpayment funds would have been better used in the stock market, perhaps the real estate you purchased was not the best of deals.

Hindsight is always 20/20.  Forecasting the future contains risk.  

Real estate has proven over time to be a great path to wealth; singles, doubles, multi, or commercial--buy it right, manage it effectively, and over time it will more than keep up with inflation.  

Perhaps use some of your rental profits to invest and dca into the stock market.  Or, if you are a talented stock picker, use some profits to buy real estate.

Either way, continue to own appreciating assets, because there is no stopping the inflation train.

@Marc Cha, tough situation, but here are some suggestions on how to proceed

1. Visitor Arrest — Liability

• General rule (CA): You’re not liable just because a guest of your tenant was arrested, unless you (1) knew about illegal activity and ignored it, or (2) the lease says you have to screen/approve visitors and you failed to enforce it.

• What to do:

  • Get the police report. Confirm the arrested person’s name and that it’s not your tenant.

  • Keep that on file in case the neighbor’s lawyer tries to conflate visitor vs. tenant.

2. “Ongoing Nuisance” Claim — 8-Month Gap

• “Nuisance” in CA usually means a substantial, ongoing interference. Sporadic complaints with long silent gaps (especially no police reports) make that hard to prove.

• If the neighbors can’t show a pattern (logs, reports, multiple calls), their case is weak.

• A single arrest of a visitor is not an ongoing nuisance.

3. Responding to the Attorney Letter

• You don’t want to ignore it—that can invite escalation or a claim you were “unresponsive.”

• A short, neutral reply (preferably from you or a property manager or lawyer) is usually enough:

• Don’t debate facts or argue about neighbors’ behavior (racism, etc.). Keep it factual and boring.

• If you’re worried about tone or liability, have an attorney send this 3–4 sentence reply.

4. Working With Tenants

• Since they’re house hunting anyway, helping with moving costs can be a smart, quiet way to end conflict fast.

• Keep communications written and respectful. Don’t reference the neighbor dispute—just “mutually agreed move-out.”

5. Fence Damage

• Separate issue.

• If police caused damage, file a damage claim with the city/county PD. Usually you have to do it within 6 months.

• If it was during the arrest, the PD may cover repair.

6. Red Flags / Risk Checks

• Insurance: Notify your landlord insurance if you think this could become a liability claim (nuisance, harassment). They sometimes provide legal defense.

• Retaliation claims: Don’t do anything that could look like you’re pushing tenants out because of their complaints about racism or neighbor harassment. Frame move-out as tenant’s choice and document it.

• Fair Housing: Be careful not to appear to side with racist neighbors or force out tenants because of their identity. Stick to neutral language: “They’re relocating voluntarily.”

• Management company: Good idea to hand over after this is done—they’ll know how to handle neighbor complaints.

Bottom Line / Simple Plan

1. Pull the police report Monday.

2. Offer tenants a smooth exit and maybe a small move-out incentive.

3. Send a short, factual response to the attorney (you or a lawyer).

4. File a claim for the fence damage separately.

5. Don’t get pulled into neighbor drama or racism dispute.

If the tenants leave soon, the nuisance claim likely fizzles—especially with no documented pattern and no police involvement besides the visitor’s arrest.

Educate and communicate with the buyers before showing any property.  Let them know that issues concerning code violations are of concern; cosmetic issues are not.  Cosmetic concerns will be reflected in the offer price. 

Example: worn or slightly cracked tiles in a kitchen will be obvious to a buyer during a showing.  If an inspector lists it, I'd consider it a cosmetic defect.  

The seller normally will not negotiate on that item because it was obvious to the buyer before the offer was made. 

So my rule of thumb: if a code-related item slips past detection during showing (before the offer is made) and is later listed by an inspector after acceptance, it certainly should be addressed. 

Definitely contact the case worker at Section 8.  You need to report this type of behavior to establish a pattern (if there is one).  Give proper notice when due, and then don't renew the lease when it is up.

Tenants, especially experienced ones like yours, will understand that if they have a judgment after an l/t court case, they may lose their voucher if the judgment is left unpaid.

Just a note:  you can easily check public records through the Unified Judicial System to investigate if a potential tenant has been evicted or charged with crimes.  

A PM might not share a credit report (privacy) but public record, is, well, public.

Hi @Carol Burns,

Typical screening for Sec 8 and for non-subsidized tenants should be the same; credit reports, bank statements, income verification, employer verification, rental references, L/T search for actions/evictions.

Anylize the credit report to see what is causing any dings.  Are there judgments?  If medical collections are hurting the score, I have let that slide; if it's a utility collection like phone or electric, that is a red flag for sure.  If they (or any tenant) has an eviction or mulitple l/t court filings on their record, that receives a hard-stop "no". 

Receiving section 8 does not make the applicant a bad person.  It does mean they have a lack of finances and/or finance education.  Expect to pay a bit more attention to property condition and punctuality of paying a 'co-pay'.  Don't let those co-pay payments slide, even if it's only $20.00.  Yes, we've had tenants say they can't afford their small co-pay.  They can always speak with their case worker to revise their co-pay if necessary.  It's more about them taking responsibility for their finances and actions than just the money itself.

We have worked with dozens of sec 8 tenants.  Just like the general tenant population, a few are great, most are average, and some are real stinkers.

Good luck!

Yours is a great story!  

Have you talked with your current employer about more hours or expanding your role with them?  

Of the options you outlined, I'd opt for "C" and cold call, prospect, and find a deal.  Spend your extra hours inspecting properties -- currently listed, expired listings, and FSBOs.

Identify abandoned properties in your local area. It's fun to be a detective and track down the owners--you never know where those contacts may lead!

Rather than trading your time for money serving drinks, consider taking the real estate licensing course.  The money and time invested in learning (and maybe becoming licensed) will return 10--100x your investment. 

You are in an ideal situation; when you find a good deal, you are already plugged into a lending source, partnership opportunity, or referral fee*.

Best of luck!

*Check your state laws about receiving fees for real estate transactions without being licensed.