Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Matt McCurdy:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Matt McCurdy:
I'm constantly reading on BiggerPockets investors saying you need to buy rental property, break even, and hope for appreciation and/or lower rates in the future to cashflow. WRONG!!!
I'm here to tell you I'm still finding cash flowing deals in my market.
Here's an example:
Up/Down Duplex
Each Unit 2 beds 1 bath (all utilities split out & paid by tenants)
Total Rent: $1,450/mo.
$125k purchase price (20% down) @ 7.5% over 25 year term: $739
Property Taxes: $125/mo
Insurance: $175/mo (in 500 year floodplain)
Net Cashflow: $411/mo*
Obviously, I didn't include property management fees, vacancy, nor repairs/maintenance. I've found every investor treats those costs differently in their pro forma, but this gives you the idea. Is anyone seeing better cash flow in their markets?
I agree that there is no standard on estimating expenses but the closest thing to a standard is the 50% rule. I find in low rent markets (Midwest) or high HOA markets (Florida condos) that the 50% rule is aggressive and expenses are likely to exceed 50%.
Cash flow projection using 50% rule:
1450 - 725 (expenses at 50%) - $739 (mortgage) = ($14). You could have reduced mortgage slightly with 30 year term and likely would reflect some small amount of positive cash flow but still I would refer to both cases as being cash neutral.
Now the issues:
- at that rent point, $725 unit, the 50% rule likely is not enough to cover actual expenses
- that rent point, $725/unit, reflects poor historical rent grow. The implication is cash flow is unlikely to improve significantly better than inflation. If so, this property is going to be very slow to provide decent cash flow
- at that price, $125k, it shows poor historical appreciation. This property likely will not appreciate faster than inflation which implies in inflation adjusted dollars there is no appreciation.
- residential RE even with the use of a PM is not passive. It must make money to justify the effort. The goal is not to own property, the goal is to make money.
I do believe by taking an active role, you can make money on this purchase. Self manage, save ~10%. Do your own maintenance items and reduce maintenance/cap ex costs. It will be difficult to scale to life changing with the active role, but you can learn a lot.
I do not post to beat you up. I post to give you and other readers something to ponder. I believe everyone needs to start and I commend you for that. I also think it is important to educate on the journey. I hope pondering my points provides items to consider and that they are at least evaluated for likely validity for future acquisitions.
good luck and learn as much as you can with this purchase
Full disclosure, I have enough rental properties that I've pivoted from buying and I'm helping other investors over the next couple of years via my Brokerage and 1-4 unit coaching.
I don't take offense to your challenge, but one thing is certain broad stokes via percentages can get you in trouble very fast. The devil is in the details and mostly all of your quick math assumptions are incorrect. $125k property is actually showing better appreciation than the properties that are $300k+. Real estate is hyperlocal. Rent and price appreciation has been keeping up with inflation (most of the time reaching higher than inflation). The properties PITI, Property taxes, and insurance would be ~$1k per month. Even if you included $100 per month in maintenance/repairs and $100 in property management (I know a PM that will do 7%) you'd still be cashflowing ~$250 per month. 12% CoC return based on 20% down. Not great, but the main point I was trying to illustrate is many think they need to buy property earning a 0% CoC return to "get their foot in the door" to real estate. This is simply not true, at least in my market.
I can tell you have never filled out a maintenance/cap ex cost spreadsheet because “Even if you included $100 per month in maintenance/repairs” is no where close for 2 units. It may no cover just the two kitchens. The apartment complex (large unit counts with own maintenance staff) cannot even achieve that maintenance/cap ex.
“I know a PM that will do 7%”. Is this all inclusive. Does it cover placing a new tenant, lease renewals, at least property inspections per year? I would be shocked if you can get a competent Pm to manage those units at $50.75/month ($750 * 0.07) per unit.
“$125k property is actually showing better appreciation than the properties that are $300k+”. Numbers do not lie. The $300k+ property has experienced the better historical LONG TERM appreciation as evidenced by it being higher priced. However I thought I would look deeper so I looked up the appreciation of Cedar Rapids on NeighborhhodScout. It showed 1 out of 10 nationally for last 5 years, 10 years, and since 2000. That is a rare trifecta of poor long term appreciation. Since 2000, 2.36% annual appreciation. Its average residential property value has fallen in inflation adjusted dollars. Being an investor you may be doing better than average appreciation but my point still applies.
As I indicated, the 50% rule is typically aggressive at that rent point. You may make some modest return but residential RE even with use of PM is not passive. The return needs to justify the effort. The return needs to have ability to noticeably improve life. Does this property meet that criteria for you?
I wish you the best.
"Lead with questions, answers will follow."
This duplex was flooded in the 2008 flood, so much of it was gutted with new mechanicals. We had a derecho in 2020, so the roof, siding, and windows are all new from 2020. I'm not sure what you mean by covering kitchens. Both are in good condition and should be serviceable for plenty of years to come.
Yes, 7% is legit. I just met with the guy last month.
California may be your cup of tea. I for one, appreciate (no pun intended) Iowa and all it has to offer. My net worth does too!
As I said prior, I'm not investing for the next couple of years to help other investors in my market.