All Forum Posts by: Sam Leon

I wouldn't mind renting to good people who take care of their parents.

I assume the parents are unable to qualify on their own income wise so he has to co-sign, and yes probably if they vacate they will at the same time but you are also renting both out at the same time now instead of one now one later on.

I would definitely get them all on leases.

But I would also let them know they absolutely cannot break a common wall to make a doorway to go between the two units.

Hey, that's a luxury access panel, the brushed nickel solid handle makes it worth $30 more rent.

Michael,

This has been an ongoing debate for a long time.

Many plumbers in the field will tell you Draino is the #1 killer of old copper drains. No proof though.

Some insist Draino causes corrosion.

Some insist Draino doesn't but once the corrosion started for whatever reason, Draino makes it much worse.

Some other insist Draino is OK but not if it sits in your drain for a while, such as a case where you have a piece of whatever on the bottom of the pipe and puddle the Draino you poured down.

Yet some other things Draino is getting a bad rep because many think "Draino" automatically when referring to any drain cleaning products.

What makes it even more confusing is Draino themselves have changed formulas several times over the years.

What I would say is last time I checked, Draino's PH value is between 12 and 14.

Also down here, if you hire a plumber to clear a kitchen drain, many of them are trained to ask the customer if they poured Draino down before calling them...because if they take the p-trap under the sink apart, and there's Draino there, they are in for a nasty burn. So many old timer plumbers hate Draino.

I myself would never use it. I have use Bio-Clean and that works.

Every home I have owned have copper supplies, some have copper drains some cast iron. Of course I tend to buy the older homes that were built in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

Since we don't have basements, the old homes have soft copper under the slab, continuous no joints from manifold to manifold. Many are still holding up after 40, 50 years.

Sorry it's so long and wordy...I thought it's an interesting case and a bit "out there".

Now, my kitchen cabinet has a permanent access panel.

Roy, I did take the trim plate off to see. I wanted to make sure the four connections to it, two in, two out, and they are all dry, so I know it's not the pipes it connected to.

If the leaks were higher up, the wall cabinets is one option.

If is lower where the counter top is. A tough spot. I finally was able to patch it from the underside blind.

If I weren't able to do that, or if I can't locate the new buyer, my last resort would have been to tell the HOA they need to fix this, and have them tear my wall apart.

So now that I know what the problem is, I have to figure out how to solve it.

The pipe is not going to last too long. Further, my neighbor's pipe is in the same shape. I would prefer to replace that whole pipe, which runs from the kitchen all the way behind the tub, behind the toilet, to where the lav cabinet is (the vent stack protudes the wall) there.

Since my pipe and my neighbor's pipe runs in parallel like a shot gun towards the stack (which is cast iron), and I know my lav sink and my neighbors also run in the other direction to the stack, also in a shot gun formation, that tells me there will be a problem because we are dealing with a very specialized fitting that takes a twin pipe from the same direction, and most likely there are two of them, one over the other. The copper threaded connection to that is mostly likely corroded and have to be peeled out. Besides, whoever remodeled the place last did not hire a good plumber, who put in a disposer when the wall studout is too high for it. So if I want to solve this once and for all, I need to open that whole wall up all the way across, and really lower the kitchen drain to accommodate a deep sink with a disposer, and the current connections at the stack means I can't do all that, not legally anyways.

So I went back to the HOA documents, and guess what, it says the HOA is responsible to fix anything in common walls. I know the HOA doesn't have a lot of money, because the foreclosed unit hasn't been paying, and this is a small building, only 4 units. They are going to have a problem paying for my pipe replacement, and retile and all that work, and the connection at the stack had me worried. It may have to be left alone and I just no hub the new PVC pipe in. I decided I need to figure out who's in charge next door, fixing my pipe and not fixing my neighbor's soon to fail pipe makes no sense, and I need to get a handle on the sewer gas from their traps anyways.

After talking to a few people, ex-agents, I found out the property is under contract with a new owner, but the bank is slow and it's some sort of probate issue. Long story short I got a hold of the person who's under contract to buy and patiently waiting, he gave me the name of the agent I explained the problem and they met me at the property and let me into the vacant property.

That place stunk. Sewer gas. I turned on all the faucets, flushed toilets, opened windows. Then I explained to them the problem...and showed the new "soon to be owner" the pictures of his tub and the pipes, convinced that he needs to replace his tub and redo his bathroom. He says he expects the bank to close in December or January. So I told him when he redo his bathroom and opens up that wall, I will come in and replace both drains at the same time, and possibly lower his kitchen drain connection so it can properly accommodate a disposer.

So he does his bathroom remodel, replaced the tub, replace his tiles.

I fix his and my kitchen drains, lower the connections, at minimum cost.

I already talked to the HOA, and they are OK with me doing it, since it saves them money, compare to the alternative.

win-win-win.

So I have a long term solution - as long as he will be the buyer and not back out. haha.

Now, I still need a temp fix for this leak.

I used a sandpaper to sand down that spot and had a better picture taken by a camera.

Zooming in...

]\

Definitely corrosion, most likely Draino.

That pipe is falling apart, but is this the only spot for now, or there are other holes up or downstream?

So I patched the holes there with none other than duct tape, and turned on the kitchen faucet. No leak. That proves no other leak besides those. That makes it easier. Now I just need a temporary solution.

There is no way I can cut that section out. I can't see it, too tight for any tools to squeeze in, it has other pipes running along, across, on top so even sanding was a challenge.

Whatever I do has to be done without seeing. I have to do it, and confirm I did it at the right location after by taking a picture and looking at the picture.

I end up using some epoxy plumber's putty, didn't really like this stuff but for a drain, not pressurized, and knowing I can implement a permanent fix in a few months, what the heck.

So no leak for now.

Imagine, going through all that because I wanted to open the overflow cover to remove the old drain linkage.

Was it bad luck?

or good luck because I fixed what could be a major issue, and I met the new soon to be neighbor.

I had a few beers along the way.

As I was contemplating my next move, and really hating that I may have to open up that tiled wall, and really not being able to see what is causing the leak was driving me nuts.

I decided to retest a third time, this time wait till it leaks and drips, then look at all the connections to the valve mixer, the shower arm, and the spout. They are dry. Yet the drips are coming from above, where these connections are.

Finally, I decided to squeeze myself into the cabinet and reach up with my hand as far as I can go on the other side, and feel around by touch. I can feel two larger pipes (besides the supply lines to the two units) going horizontally. Hmmm those are drains. Two of them in parallel. I felt the hot and cold supplies, I felt the tub spout stubout etc...dry. But back to the drains, and it's a bit wet. The drains are wet. It then dawn on me, it's the kitchen drain from my own kitchen sink that's sitting in the same cabinet I am squeezed into. There are two of them running parallel because my drain and my neighbor's drain are mirror image. Why would that be wet under? Well because I just washed my hand in the kitchen sink.

I couldn't stop laughing...it was leaking because I just turned on the kitchen faucet. May have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the bath an shower. It's intermittent because I was using that sink once in a while to rinse my hand whenever I reached inside the hole with a flash light. I did a few other tests and confirmed it's the kitchen drain but right where it crossed under the shower where the tub spout protrudes out of the wall, it was touching the drain from above, and that pipe when water's on, vibrates against the drain and encouraged a slow drip, but the drip happens even if I just turn the kitchen faucet on.

Now I need to device a plan to fix the leaking drain line, which is 1-1/2" copper, not PVC. I can't even see it, I know it's there, I don't want to open up the tile wall.

I took a camera, and reached in with my hand and point the camera up, I can't see anything with me inside the kitchen, but I can snap pictures with my hand in the wall cavity. So I took about two dozens of pictures with flash on, and that night I loaded them onto my desktop and zoomed around and looked.

I feel like a CIA analyst on a recon mission looking for WMD LOL. But after a bit I spotted something.

See the water on the underside of the pipe?

So the next day, sort of knowing where to look, I point my camera to that spot and took some more pics, and one of them showed me what I needed to see.

Zooming in...

So...on the bottom side, several (that I can see), I know I am looking at a pipe at the end of it's life, and I cursed whoever made DRAINO, out loud. More to follow, haha.

Roy, I did check the mixer. That's not the problem. It's now resolved and I am just documenting my journey because it's so crazy.

After I went back I decided that the first order of business is to systematically test and find out what's leaking.

Since it is close to that hole I cut, and leaked when I filled the tub to test the overflow pipe connection, then it has to be the bathtub valve, the overhead shower, the tub spout, or the cold or hot copper supply lines leading to them.

So first I did was I removed the tub spout and the shower arm and examined the connection. Seems OK. I then capped them and turned on the valve. Hot only, cold only, divert to the spout, divert to the overhead shower. No leak.

Strange, but actually good news, because if it's under pressure but not leaking, then the leak is somewhere else, possibly the shower arm connection or the spout connections were loose, and water seeped back behind the wall and traveled along pipes.

I reconnected the shower arm and spout. This time cleaned the threads really well, used joint compound and sealed the holes around the protruding arms with silicon. Tested, no leak. Good, but wait, leaked again. Ay ya ya, intermittent leaks.

I took everything apart again, and retested everything, capped A, turn B on, capped B, turned A on, hot only, cold only, combination...no leak. Put them all back, tested again, no leak. Puzzled, I decided to leave shower running for 30 minutes and wait. Checked and no leak, but after a few minutes, drip drip drip very slowly.

This made absolutely no sense. Everything was systematically tested and inconclusive. I tested everything that can be tested without breaking walls.

I decided I might have to open the wall behind the tub after all, and the next day I went around hunting for matching tiles with no luck.

I end up at that same bar and had a few more beers. I also started to read the HOA governing docs and by laws. More to follow.