All Forum Posts by: Nathan Gesner

Somebody is playing you for a sucker with that price! Setting up an LLC is much cheaper.

I have always heard it was a "must" to keep rentals under an LLC, maybe even a different LLC for each property. As I study the issue, it looks like umbrella insurance can protect you just as much and possibly more than an LLC. Umbrella insurance can be cheaper and much less hassle in the long run. I'm still researching it.

I definitely agree it is government meddling. In my experience, the majority can police themselves without Big Brother holding our hands.

I read the statement and it doesn't change anything I'm already doing as a property manager. I'm sitting in a NARPM conference with 600 other owners of management companies around the country, many if them with decades of experience a d thousands of rentals. There are some unanswered questions and we will have to review our policies and procedures, but nobody is sweating bullets.

A HUD representative flew in from DC and he said there is nothing new. Everything published in this statement is backed by decades of case law within the states. This is just the Fed clarifying existing rules. The only thing I disagree with is that the typical PM or Landlord is ill-suited for investigating and determining the risk of someone with a criminal record.

The moment you saw the curtains in the house, you should have called the cops and reported her as a trespasser. I don't mean to insult you but I don't think she was a professional tenant: I think you were an amateur Landlord.

I'm surprised to see you have ten rentals. I hope you a better Landlord now, particularly in the state of California.

I always recommend against buying an occupied property unless you communicate with the Tenants first AND they have a written agreement prior to closing the sale. That simple step would have saved you a lot of heartache.

You may also have grounds for a lawsuit against the listing agent. Why? Because they should have known the situation with the current occupants and they are required to disclose that by law. If what you say here is true, they violated their legal responsibility and their code of ethics. As a fellow REALTOR, I would file a complaint against them in a heart beat.

My recommendation is for you to contact an attorney that specializes in evictions and start that process. Their situation is sad (if it is true) but it is their fault, not yours. They've had plenty of time to arrange a new living situation but refuse, so giving them more time won't fix anything.

For those reading this: do you research before buying!!!

Jeremy, don't do it. They are just trying to take advantage of you and the situation. The only time you need to pay for assistance is if you are having a difficult time finding a renter. From what I know of the market, it is strong and you shouldn't have a problem as long as you are priced appropriately and the home is of good quality.

I would warn you that the Republic of Kalifornia is TOUGH for a Landlord, particularly a new one. You better educate yourself quickly because one little mistake can ruin you. If you have no idea where to start, I highly recommend you buy the NOLO Landlord's Lawbook specifically for California. That will give you a solid foundation and then you can refine your knowledge from there.

I really would like to know how many BP members actually own property. I am not on every board but I see hundreds of people posting about how they are studying, planning, saving, and so forth but they have not purchased their first property. Then there are members that have one property and they are trying to learn the ropes.

The latest numbers I could find from the Fed is that about 80% of all single-family rentals are privately managed. According to a statistician I heard from yesterday, most Landlords own 1-2 rentals.  

I wish BP would require each member to provide three data points: number of single-family homes owned, number of multi-family units owned, and number of units professionally managed. This would allow BP to run statistics on their members:

1. What percentage of BP members own rentals?
2. What percentage of BP members use a property manager?
3. How many rentals are single-family? How many are multi-family?
4. Who is more likely to use a manager? Single-family or multi-family?
5. Month-to-month or annual comparisons of the number of units. Are members growing their portfolios or shrinking? Are members self-managing more or turning over to a property manager?

It would also be nice in discussions. If I ask a question about how to handle tenant turnover, it would be nice to know the experience level of anyone that responds without having to dig through their profiles. We've all seen responses from people that have never owned a single rental in their life which is rather annoying.

$0.02 deposited. Take it for what it's worth. ;)

Sue is exactly right. The HUD representative said nothing has changed. The laws are the same and has been proven in court for decades. The guidance issued last week was a clarification based on existing laws and it basically says you need to treat everyone equally and ensure you are not behaving in a manner that could be seen as discrimination.

He brought up a great example. After Hurricane Katrina, a city close to New Orleans passed an ordinance that said homes could only be rented to blood relatives. There is nothing illegal with that ordinance. HOWEVER...it was illegal because it was passed in a city that was 80% white knowing that the citizens of New Orleans (primarily black) would be looking for places to live. So while it is legal to say they will only rent to blood relatives, the true purpose of their law was to keep the people of New Orleans from renting in their town. It's a round-about way of discriminating, known as "disparate impact."

The HUD representative wasn't aware of some of the examples we brought up. For example, the HUD statement says we shouldn't discriminate against people with an arrest record. One member asked, "What about a guy that was arrested and is out on bail waiting for a trial?" The HUD rep said, "Don't rent to him!"

The point is that you have to have a policy that is fair, does not impact a particular protected class differently, and that is justifiable. It's what all of us should already be doing. I don't need the government to create protected classes because I will treat everyone honestly and fairly. Unfortunately, laws are created for the minority that refuse to treat people kindly.

Statistics show that the majority of rental properties in the United States are owned and managed by private individuals. The majority of Landlords own 1-2 rentals. Therefore, the majority of BP investors are not subject to Fair Housing.

 I am willing to bet the majority of BP members do not own a single rental property. Has anyone ever tracked this? I would really like to know.

Below is straight from the HUD web site. Keep in mind state or local laws may apply.

Not every rental is covered by the federal fair housing laws. The following types of property are exempt:


• owner-occupied buildings with four or fewer rental units


• single-family housing rented without the use of advertising or without a real estate broker, as long as the landlord owns no more than three such homes at any one time


• certain types of housing operated by religious organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to their own members, and

• with respect to age discrimination only, housing reserved exclusively for senior citizens. There are two kinds of senior citizen housing exempted: communities where every tenant is 62 years of age or older, or “55 and older” communities in which at least 80% of the occupied units must be occupied by at least one person 55 years or older.

Stick to your written lease and your policies!! Ifor you make an exception,  particularly for a new tenant, you are setting a precedence.