All Forum Posts by: Nathan Crankfield
Nathan Crankfield has started 3 posts and replied 26 times.
Post: Best perks for guests in an STR?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @Luke Carl:
As many as I’ve stayed in that under delivered id be happy with clean sheets 😍
haha I have stayed in some bad ones as well where cleanliness seemed like an option they skipped out on
Post: Best perks for guests in an STR?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @John Underwood:
We leave treats from a German bakery at our vacation rental - Lake House.
We don't leave anything at our PF vacation rental (mountain house) that sleeps 23 people. We still get 5 star reviews because we have an awesome property.
That's awesome. I had considered getting some stuff from a local bakery for our first few bookings. Maybe I'll do it for longer stays or something like that. Thanks for the feedback
Post: Best perks for guests in an STR?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
We recently launched our short-term rental on Airbnb here in South Denver. Because I had recently had a family party at the house, I had some surplus sodas and other little snacks leftover. We decided to stock the mini fridge with just a few drinks for the guests. We also provide them with filtered drinking water since the Englewood water tastes so bad.
I'm curious as to what, if anything, other hosts leave for guests? I've heard from some that it's best to not leave anything, while I know some like to leave some local treats for people to try. What have you seen be successful? Is it worth it to provide little things like that or should you just focus on the necessities?
Post: How to work around strict STR laws?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Hamling:
@Nathan Crankfield the #1 "fast-pass" ticket to really pissing-off city staff and getting self known is via doing Work-Arounds.
And here is the thing, they have all the power, ALL. They can just do things, and say if you don't like it, sue them. You don't get to do that back to the city. They can come up and just shut your STR down, and I mean in the most literal sense.
The juice is not worth the squeeze, in trying to do work-arounds.
And here is the thing, it's NOT personal property rights, not when looking to use the whole property as hospitality business (STR), at that point your a commercial operation, commercially utilizing that property. Personal property is for PERSONAL use, a business operation is not personal use. So that's a pointless argument to pursue and will only annoy city officials if tried.
Here is the whole foundation to the issue that so many novices jumping into STR don't get. It is very literally the job of city to designate and manage sectors of the city for certain purposes. This is why we have zoning. Certain areas for residential housing, others for retail business, others for industrial etc etc.. All this is part of a design that includes roads to meet such demand, utilities, water, sewer, parks etc etc.. A city is itself an organism.
The current fad with STR's is perverting and distorting the entire city plans. It plunks a commercial hospitality business into residential neighborhoods. How often is there a Hilton on the same block? What would you think of got a notice 4 homes were being knocked down in middle of block to put up a 7 story Radisson? Most would be pist, and demand to know why city allowed it, right. yeah, well, converting SFH's into micro-hotels is no different, it's only room count.
This is why cities are on the response. Cities are not opposed to STR, there opposed to the city plan being destroyed, and results from such.
Some places, it's a non-issue, because it's a non-issue of impact.
So a work-around, or seeking a variance is a fools-errand, it's asking a city to ignore there zoning and the city plan. I know, it may sound ridiculous but there is a ton if science and work that goes into designing every city area so things actually work. If it were all left to just do whatever wherever, well, it would look like a 3rd world city and be a nightmare of a mess. ironically the thing that makes it ideal and profitable for STR, is the exact thing your trying to find a "work-around" to.
I suggest find a way to work WITH the "flow" vs seeking a way to faster swim up a river. For example, find areas of mixed use zoning, nearby to the residential area, thus allowing it under commercial.
I have seen this argument made before but 1) I consider all rentals business operations (even when they are not ran as a business) 2) I challenge you to find any major city that had anything in their rules prior to anti STR rules that distinguished a short term stay versus a longer stay in terms of zoning, etc. 3) The thing that separates the hotel and makes it commercial is not the length of stay. A way to look at it is if I have a 5 unit apartment building it is commercial even with long stays. Similar if I have a SFH with a tenant at 29 days (or 1 day) versus 30+ days, both cases are residential. This is the case even after rules are written restricting STRs. The anti STR rules are not because the short term rental is commercial, it is because they have limited residencies of less than 30 days (or however the rule is written).
I do understand that many (possibly most) people do not want to live next door to an STR (I do not want my neighbor to be an STR - behind me I had a neighbor build a dorm (Not sure of number of BRs but the house is bigger than many university dormitories (it is probably close to 100'x100' with 2 stories)) that visiting jewish students can stay and I am not thrilled at that either). However, to point to the STR and state because it is less than 30 days it does not conform to zoning (or is magically commercial because it is less than 30 days) is not a case in any case I am aware of (and not how the various cities I am aware of are restricting/prohibiting STRs (they are not claiming it as a zoning violation or that it is more commercial than renting MTM)).
@Dan H. I think those are some very good points. It's forgotten how arbitrary it all seems to be at times when you make true comparisons to other circumstances and situations.
As I tried to state before to him, a lot of these regulations are the result of lobbying from the large corporations in the hospitality industry. They understandably hate STRs, so they pay people to create laws that restrict their competition. These regulations are then promoted under the guise of "protecting the city plan" and protecting neighbors from...their neighbors?
I love my neighbors and would not want to do anything that would harm them. My neighbors sometimes do things that harm my property value, like not taking care of their homes and lawns. They have the freedom to do that, even though I don't like it. Because they can do as they please. I believe they would also have the right to farm in their backyard if they pleased. And further, they'd have the right to sell their produce, even if I don't like their customers taking up our street parking.
Property rights don't fade away once you begin to trade with another free citizen in a free society because it becomes "commercial" and thereby regulated by the state. That's just not how things are supposed to work, even though it is how they work in most places at present time.
Post: How to work around strict STR laws?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @Michael Baum:
Hehe @Bruce Woodruff, I am in Idaho at our lake house replacing blinds. Haven't checked anything today and BAM! Commies and Q Anon and all that good stuff!
@Nathan Crankfield, the bottom line is that you can work to get the regs changed, but Denver has been a tough place to do STRs for a while now. Your best bet is to move to LTR or some kind of MTR play.
Remember, if things are spelled out in the zoning code, most municipalities will tell you it isn't allowed. That is how most places do it.
Regarding property rights, I hear you doing what you want with your own stuff, but a STR in a primarily residential owner neighborhood does affect others. No matter how good a vetter you are of the guests, a STR will create some turbulence.
Increased traffic, strangers in the house next door every 3-7 days, noise due to having a good time on vacation... the list is endless really.
That is why a lot of us invest only in vacation spots where the regs are either non-existent or solidly pro STR.
Also, it cracked me up when you said @James Hamling was a big government guy. He is one of the most out spoken small government people on the board.
Well, I certainly don't know James Hamling's views on most things in life, so I could only make conclusions based on the things he said to me. And if you read his words where he says things like "it's literally the government's job to tell people what to do and what not to do", I think it's pretty hard to argue that a statement like that is representative of a pro-free market/small gov position. I'm unsure why or how that's controversial.
STRs do affect other people. I never denied that. I simply stated that it's my belief that it's not a violation of someone else's rights for me to rent out a house that I own. My neighbors across the street have chickens, which could affect me. My neighbors next door don't take care of their home at all and it's an eye sore - that could affect me too when selling my home. Two doors down is an abandoned house, which greatly affects the neighborhood. There are countless ways we could say our properties negatively affect our neighbors and therefore we need more government intervention to regulate us and what we do with our property.
You can make the argument for it. I'm not fighting anybody doing that. I just don't think that people who make the argument for government regulations over private property should call themselves the poster child of libertarianism.
For context - I'm not a libertarian. I'm just someone who likes philosophical and logical consistency and precise use of language
Post: How to work around strict STR laws?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Jesus you guys, I go out to dinner with my wife for tacos and a few margaritas and I come back to all this?
I actually think we're all on the same side here, just different interpretations and opinions.....
Lol I actually think this is largely true, at least in terms of how to handle STRs. I wish others had read my responses to the many people who said things like "yeah man probably not worth it to jump through the hoops to maintain an STR that isn't your primary residence, although it can be done. Best to make it an MTR or LTR." Then they proceeded to provide very valuable insight on ways to do that, which was my hope.
The larger disagreement amongst the group seems to be in regards to what "property rights" are and what the proper role of government is, which is a fun debate to have.
Post: How to work around strict STR laws?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Nathan Crankfield:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Nathan Crankfield:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Nathan Crankfield:
Quote from @James Hamling:
@Nathan Crankfield the #1 "fast-pass" ticket to really pissing-off city staff and getting self known is via doing Work-Arounds.
And here is the thing, they have all the power, ALL. They can just do things, and say if you don't like it, sue them. You don't get to do that back to the city. They can come up and just shut your STR down, and I mean in the most literal sense.
The juice is not worth the squeeze, in trying to do work-arounds.
And here is the thing, it's NOT personal property rights, not when looking to use the whole property as hospitality business (STR), at that point your a commercial operation, commercially utilizing that property. Personal property is for PERSONAL use, a business operation is not personal use. So that's a pointless argument to pursue and will only annoy city officials if tried.
Here is the whole foundation to the issue that so many novices jumping into STR don't get. It is very literally the job of city to designate and manage sectors of the city for certain purposes. This is why we have zoning. Certain areas for residential housing, others for retail business, others for industrial etc etc.. All this is part of a design that includes roads to meet such demand, utilities, water, sewer, parks etc etc.. A city is itself an organism.
The current fad with STR's is perverting and distorting the entire city plans. It plunks a commercial hospitality business into residential neighborhoods. How often is there a Hilton on the same block? What would you think of got a notice 4 homes were being knocked down in middle of block to put up a 7 story Radisson? Most would be pist, and demand to know why city allowed it, right. yeah, well, converting SFH's into micro-hotels is no different, it's only room count.
This is why cities are on the response. Cities are not opposed to STR, there opposed to the city plan being destroyed, and results from such.
Some places, it's a non-issue, because it's a non-issue of impact.
So a work-around, or seeking a variance is a fools-errand, it's asking a city to ignore there zoning and the city plan. I know, it may sound ridiculous but there is a ton if science and work that goes into designing every city area so things actually work. If it were all left to just do whatever wherever, well, it would look like a 3rd world city and be a nightmare of a mess. ironically the thing that makes it ideal and profitable for STR, is the exact thing your trying to find a "work-around" to.
I suggest find a way to work WITH the "flow" vs seeking a way to faster swim up a river. For example, find areas of mixed use zoning, nearby to the residential area, thus allowing it under commercial.
@James Hamling We're obviously in the realm of philosophy when discussing this, but it is an issue of personal property right, because things I personally own are an issue of personal property. There can be impacts and taxes imposed on it, but it doesn't take it out of the realm of personal property just because the government overreaches and decides to regulate and control what I do with it.
It is not meant to be the job of the city to designate what homeowners can and cannot do in their own homes. I disagree with that, novice or not. I realize you're pro-government controlling all things and being the supreme power at every level, but not all of us agree with that.
Something that is common among us real estate investors, seasoned and new, is that we try to find legal ways to maximize profits and avoid taxes through certain loopholes and work arounds. I am unsure why so many of you got absolutely triggered by me trying to understand ways that people may have found to run STRs that they don't actually live in.
There's a massive difference between putting a Hilton where my house is and me allowing 2 people to stay here every night, so I am not sure the point you were trying to make there really landed.
Some cities are opposed to STRs due to the lobbying of massive hotel chains. That's not supportive of personal property rights or the lower/middle class people who are trying their hand in this new realm of business. It's unrealistic to act like local governments are angels among us who only have our best interest at heart and therefore we ought to do everything they ask by following both the spirit and the letter of the law.
You're free to continue supporting massive government overreach into the lives of autonomous citizens and I'm free to continue asking questions about ways other people operate their businesses. Thanks for your response
LMAO! Wow, you win the Emmy for Arrogant Ignorance award in this.
I am arguably "the" poster-boy for limited government. I can give you a few Senators to call and check that with if unsure, because unlike 99.8% of people I do more than just talk about it, I take ACTION and work to have actual impact on policy to effect limited governance. But this isn't the place to discuss political affiliations or activities.
As for lecturing me on what "investors" do, lol, that's like the 3yr old telling Santa about Christmas.
Look, it's called Personal Property because it's of PERSONAL use. I know schools have really gone down hill the last years but come on, it's literally in the name your using, PERSONAL. Business anything is NOT personal, it's business.
And, sorry to inform ya buddy but yes, it very literally IS the job of government to dictate what person can and can not do, ya know those things called laws rules and regulations. If you hate those, hey, feel free to go where this is little to none of them, there called 3rd world nations.
Myself, yeah, I am a big fan of working electricity 24-7, running water that doesn't kill, and all the other things your so clearly taking for granted in your rant of entitlement.
Exactly how is it your know why cities are regulating against STR's? Have you spoken to the city officials? I have. Have you spoken with Attorney Generals offices? I have. Have you discussed it with organizations? I have. I will stick to my 1st hand explanations of the why's vs the arm-chai-quarterback assumption club.
Again, personal property is that of personal use, of PERSONS, not BUSINESS. I would think this obvious even for a 4th grader by this point but, here we are, stuck in this loop.
Kids these days....
Pretty interesting to call me arrogant then call yourself "the poster boy for limited government in the next sentence" while bragging about all the important people you know, which in your mind makes you an expert on all things.
I have no doubt you know more about real estate investing than I do. I also have no doubt that your understanding of private property rights aligns more with Bernie Sanders than it does with the founding fathers. "Personal property" was used as a synonym for private property, which is the property of private citizens. Property of private citizens is to distinguish property owned by citizens rather than property owned by the state. That has nothing to do with what the "use" for the property is.
The founders believed the proper role of government was to determine how to use state owned property, which was very limited, and to protect the natural rights of citizens in the state. Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton would ardently disagree that "it is very literally the job of gov to dictate what a person can and can not do", because they would view the vast majority of laws and regulations to be unjust and unconstitutional, which they are.
The irony of you pointing out the high standard of living in the US is that it's the result of free markets that we have this quality of life. Government regulations, for the most part, inhibit innovation and the advancement of technology and growth of economy rather than cause it.
Feel free to keep talking down to me while sharing what you seem to think are conservative principles that actually mirror the ideas of modern democratic socialists. Funny that you blame the modern day education system when it seems whatever school you went to decades ago failed to share these key founding principles with you.
This is a great week to learn about them though :)
Lol, this whole thing is a perfect example of everything wrong with the younger generations.
Excellent, well-thought out response. Feel free to read the Federalist papers, the Constitution, and/or the Declaration of Independence and actually cite something that proves my explanation of private property rights as understood by the Founders to be incorrect, rather than just making cliche boomer complaints about young people.
AND THERE IT IS! The anthem of the entitled, ignorant, arrogant youth we have so fantastically raised with our molly-coddling. "boomer"...... Lol.
See, I was mistaken to think you actually wanted help and insight from those who know. Maybe if you just started it letting us know how in your 20 some years of life you already know everything there is to ever know, and your better at it than everyone, I would have better identified you off the bat.
You have thus far shown your incapable of actually reading, because not actually responding to what I actually say. Nor of the simplest most basic research to have an ounce of a clue who I am at what I stand for, more or less my age or nationality (when I speak of 2nd/3rd world nations, it's because I have actually been to them).
You already know everything, so why waste words, maybe something in the participation awards or avocado toast, IDK, but us Jurassic cramudgenons, what could we possibly know, were just so old.... Lol.
Have fun with your trolling kid, your not even worth setting straight.
I have read every word you've written, including your countless typos. You criticize me for not understanding you while assuming I'm a 20 year old who has never traveled or been through anything hard.
Meanwhile, I'm a 30-year-old former Ranger qualified Army officer who deployed to Afghanistan at age 23 as a Platoon Leader. I've been on four mission trips to three different third world countries. I'm married with a son. And I study American history, political philosophy, and the writings of the founding fathers.
Just because you know more about investing doesn't mean you know more about everything. I love how you're free to criticize me endlessly but the word "boomer" made you melt down and bring up useless things like participation trophies. You criticize because you lack the ability to combat with words and ideas. And that's too bad.
Post: How to work around strict STR laws?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @Mark S.:
@Nathan Crankfield Fair enough. But the problem is, there are so many issues coming up with short term rentals in places they really shouldn’t be that cities are finally starting to put in some regulations that probably should’ve been in place long ago. And there’s a lot of pushback from owners who don’t want to comply. My point is that is only going to make things worse for those of us who do comply. 
And I certainly understand that frustration. I just don't get why exploring different options for compliance in a place that I thought was created for such discussions was immediately criticized and shut down by so many people.
Post: How to work around strict STR laws?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @Mark S.:
@Nathan Crankfield ‘How to work around strict STR laws' was your post title. It wasn't ‘How to comply with strict STR laws and make my situation work'.
The Oxford definition of the term "workaround": "a method for overcoming a problem or limitation in a program or system". I don't understand how that implies I'm trying to break a law rather than see if there are ways that cities allow you exceptions to the rule or to see if there are things in the law I'm misunderstanding.
Post: How to work around strict STR laws?

- Englewood
- Posts 26
- Votes 13
Quote from @Mark S.:
@Brooklyn McCarty Yep - that’s the kind of thing that gives short term, rental owners a bad name, and makes it even more difficult for those of us who strictly follow all of the permitting and inspection requirements. 
@Brooklyn McCarty and @Mark S. - tell me you didn't read the post without telling me you didn't read the post. I have my license and follow all the laws required by my city. I plan to continue doing so. I simply asked a question to see how other people have worked with their respective cities to get exceptions. The answer could have been a simple: unfortunately, no there's nothing you can do. But here are some alternatives - which is actually how a lot of people responded.
Others just got emotionally triggered and made judgments without actually reading the words and understanding the context. Twitter is a better place for your hit and run comments. In my posts, I'm actually looking for insight to my questions and curiosity as I learn about investing