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All Forum Posts by: Patrick McGowen

Patrick McGowen has started 23 posts and replied 130 times.

Post: Moving property to my LLC

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

Thanks all for input/thoughts. At this point I figure some protection is better than none, having llc at least makes litigators have to go that extra step to get at personal assets even if it is an easy step. Still this has been very helpful, it has motivated me to find bank that will lend to llc so I can set up a cleaner corp for next property that has less chance of alter ego. Happy New Year.

Post: Moving property to my LLC

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

Would love to hear more on this. I am going on advice from my lawyer who owns rental properties and at least one other individual I know personally who does it the same way. Transfer property into LLC by grant deed. Does this destroy my protection? Has anyone had corporate veil pierced, or anyone been sued and llc held up?

I am not too worried about the bank losing my future business, I only get conforming loans anyhow and can do that at any other bank in town.

LLC is owned by me anyhow and the taxation passes through to me personally so it wouldn't be hard to prove that LLC and I are related.

My real reason is protecting other personal assets. LLC protection is not worth getting poorer loans.

Post: Moving property to my LLC

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

I have similar experience. My banker says no way to LLC, so I move it out when I need to refi or when I buy, then transfer it back into LLC after financing is in place. What my banker doesn't know won't hurt him, but having asset protection of LLC keeps me from getting hurt. It could blow up at some point, but as @Ed Wood said, worst case is bank slaps hand and you pull it back out and have to keep in your name.

Post: The appropriate level of equity

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

Great topic, I am struggling with this issue right now. If my realtor's comps are right, I just hit 40% equity in a property I bought in 2010 and have been thinking about cash out refi. I started to stall as a few people said I should sit tight and not over leverage.

Sad to find out LTV 75% for cash out refi, but still worth doing as it will give me a big enough chunk to put to work somewhere as long as I have positive cashflow. Thanks for the discussion, love BP.

Post: Best way to get started when you have no money

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

This seems to be a common question. Although I would endorse the ideas above, I would recommend getting your personal financial house in order first. There are several things you can bring to an investment (money, time and effort, expertise, ability to get financing, connections, etc.). You need to bring something to the deal and honestly money might be the easiest. If you cannot manage your own income and expenses in order to have money left over at the end of the month to invest, how can you expect to do this with a rental property? To be a good investor you need to:

  • Be self-motivated to work hard (this can be proven by earning a good income)
  • Have basic accounting skills and ability to follow the money (this can be proven by setting and staying within your monthly budget)
  • Live below your means (this can be proven by setting aside a little $ each month for investing)
  • Be responsible and keep up with things (this can be proven by paying your bills on time)
  • Lastly but certainly not least, delay gratification (this can be proven by not cannibalizing your investment savings when circumstances of life tempt you to do so).

How you handle your own finances is a microcosm of how you will handle a large investment portfolio. Set a budget, save $500 (or more) a month, continue to spend time learning. In a year you will have $6,000 that can be used for your first deal. $6,000 will not open a lot of opportunities, but you can do the 3% down financing as Loren suggests, or a mobile home. More importantly, this will show bankers, potential partners and others that you have the basic skills. From one of my favorite parables about a man who earned a good return on a small portion of his master’s money:

Matthew 25:23 His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

Be faithful in the little things. I know you want to jump right in, but to do it right takes time and patience. You could start wholesaling or find a successful local investor that is willing to take you on and mentor you in exchange for some of your free labor. But if you do this, you still need to manage your own money to be successful long term.

Post: New Member Introduction from Southern California

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

Welcome to BP, look forward to hearing success stories and advice as you continue to progress.

Pat

Post: Real Estate Leverage

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

I think the confusion is we start mixing terms around. A property will increase in price for several reasons.

1. You improve the property

2. Inflation

3. The market heats up and properties become overpriced

4. Demand increases (e.g., population growth) more than supply (e.g., number of houses in an area)

I am using the term “price” instead of “value” because I mean that the increase is in how many US dollars you could sell it for. No. 2 & 3 above are not increases in value. It is the same house in the same location.

These increases in price are often intertwined. For example, a bunch of fix and flippers come into a market (item 1), the dollar loses value due to inflation (item 2), jobs and population increase in the area and new building does not keep up (item 4); with these three things happening, everyone sees the average home price increasing and anyone who is able starts buying homes and paying too much (item 3).

I think the other confusion is that we often think of dollars as something of fixed value, but the value of the dollar fluctuates just like everything else. If a dollar buys half as much as it used to, eventually salaries will adjust up for living wage reasons, and rents will adjust up as well. If your salary increases and the rent from investment RE increases, but you owe the bank the same amount with the same monthly payments, it suddenly becomes much easier to make those payments. The mortgage payments are the same price, but only take half the value to pay them.

Generally inflation can only go one way, but the other three items can go both ways so as Michael says be careful, leverage cuts both ways. Inflation is the icing, make sure the underlying value is good (you buy low, have good cashflow, and possibly improve the property).

Sorry I kind of got long-winded. One more thought. If the Federal Reserve target is 2 percent inflation and you buy a property with 20 percent down payment, this is effectively a 10 percent return. Hypothetically a $100,000 property would increase in price by about $2,000 a year based purely on inflation. This increase in equity is a 10 percent ROI when considering your 20,000 down payment. With 20 percent down, you are leveraged 1/5, so increases in inflation is a five-fold return.

Sounds awesome, but investing for inflation alone is the kind of speculation that got us into the housing bubble. There are two challenges, first it is difficult to spend this equity. A cash out refinance, or selling the property has costs. Second, inflation is not an even thing, it rolls through our economy in waves. Again, invest for cash flow, inflation and tax breaks are the bonus.

Post: Hello BP nation and Los Angeles / Irvine

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

Welcome Kevin. I lived in Irvine for a few years while attending UC Irvine (go anteaters zot zot zot). Being from Montana, housing prices were insane to me, but so was rent. I rented a horrible 2b/2b apartment in a poor neighborhood for 1500/mo. I am sure there are opportunities there, same percentages, they just might be a factor (or two or three) bigger than other areas. Keep in mind you are a 4 hr drive from Las Vegas, which may have more opportunity at a lower entry point.

Good luck

Post: Newbie in Dallas / Ft. Worth

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

@Lucas Vaughn

Welcome to BP. Similarly, I am a newbie with some multi-family passive income. But I have not been bold enough to make the leap to flipping or other "active" investing. Good luck, look forward to hearing how things go for you.

Post: Selling primary residence to fund real estate investing?

Patrick McGowenPosted
  • Investor
  • Belgrade, MT
  • Posts 135
  • Votes 32

You have several options:

Rent your condo out and move

Sell condo

Take out equity loan and invest it

Do nothing

Do the math and compare, certainly travel cost is a consideration. I just found out that an almost identical house (spec home) in my neighborhood was renting for less than my mortgage payment! Add to that the fact that my down payment is capital that I can’t use somewhere else. Also add to that the repairs, maintenance and improvements I have made. Hindsight being 20/20, if I would have rented for the last 7 years and put my down payment into an investment property as well as the extra money I have been throwing at the house (repairs, extra mortgage cost, etc.), I would probably have enough investment cash flow (even with housing bubble) to cover at least half my rent. When I bought, I never even made this comparative analysis.

I knew from Rich Dad Poor Dad that house is not an asset, still I couldn’t help making a stupid investment decision because of my programming (in robot voice “need to own my home”). This is more for people considering buying a home, DO THE MATH! Whatever helps you achieve your financial goals faster is what you should do. Good luck.